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Mattlures

Check of this huge smalie

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               I'm no expert, but. The things that catch my eye are the markings of a spot (more or less)and the color. Oh and the fact the picture looks doctored. I hate to be a "nay sayer", but. A smallie with a gut like that? RW, what are you thinking?

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This is waht I said on page one of this thread:

Now, that's a pig!

I have been hunting smallmouth for a number of years and have NEVER seen a smallmouth with such an extended belly, but if you look at David Hayes' World Record, there is a remarkable similarity. Fish like this are uncommon, but that is EXACTLY what it takes to reach such unusual size. This fish is a beauty and I see no reason to question the authenticity of the picture or the stated weight.

That is a beautiful fish.

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I am claiming ignorance, as well as curiosity. Not being familiar with the smallmouth/spotted bass hybrid I did a little research. I came up with this below excerpt from a article I had found. I could not find a year to pinpoint this article, all it gave me was a month. I did notice were it spoke of a potential new world record according to the IGF for this hybrid deemed a Hybrid Black Bass. It seems it was below the weight of the 8-4 we were talking about. Fill me in if anyone can, to fill my curiosity. Thanks.  :)

What do you get when you cross a smallmouth bass with a spotted bass? You get a black bass hybrid and Sean McAllister got a new state record, and pending world record, fish.

           McAllister, who lives in Stilwell, pulled a 6-pound, 14-ounce oddity from Lake Texoma, Feb. 5.

           At first I just thought it was just a weird looking smallmouth, until someone mentioned it looked like a spotted bass, McAllister said.

           Fisheries biologists with the Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation suspected it was a black bass hybrid and DNA analysis confirmed it was a cross between smallmouth and spotted bass. The Wildlife Department established a new category, black bass hybrid, for the unique fish.

           It is certainly rare, but it is not totally unheard of. I have seen two others in my 35 years of experience, but both were much smaller than this one, said Paul Mauck, south central fisheries supervisor for the Wildlife Department.

           According to Mauck, the black bass hybrids occur naturally when the spawning areas of the two species overlap.

           While hybridization occurs occasionally throughout the two fishes range, only Missouri currently recognizes a black bass hybrid record. Since that record stands at 5-pounds, 10-ounces, McAllister's fish will set a new world record, pending approval from the International Game Fish Association.

           McAllister caught the record fish while fishing a Carolina-rigged Zoom lizard. The fish measured 20.8-inches long and was 16.5 inches in girth and weighed 6lb 14oz.

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looks photoshopped. The contrast of the fish and the background don't seem quite right, as if they are lit differently.  Also the left hand's grip is suspicious and there seems to be some smudging or blurring on the right hand.

The main indicator for me is the fish's coloration. The patterns on the fish have a higher clarity than the details of the other objects in the photo. That suggests to me that the fish's scale patterns were taken from a photo with higher resolution and put into the a photo with lower resolution.

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Okay, well let me clue you guys in..... This lake has kicked out numerous 8 plus Smallies in the last two years, with strong evidence for two over 9 lbs. Several of them, maybe 30% or so, have very strange, almost hybrid or "mule" colors. I have even caught one very green looking Smallmouth from here myself. In fact, the lake record before the last one, was also one of these strange, greenish looking ones. This has been a subject of much debate, with local anglers and biologists.

I'd bet you my boat, my truck, and my next 10 paychecks that this catch was as straight up as it gets ! Nothing fake about that photo, or that fish.

I'll post some photos of my toad Smallies from here in the next little bit. Again, I'm guessing that if I get 3 or 4 good ones, at least one will be very greenish, and strange looking.

Peace,

Fish

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Thanks for the info Fish Cris. I feel the fish is on the up and up as well. All this talk of 8 and 9 smallies makes me one to vacation on that lake. Unbelievable. Where I live we fish hard for smallies between 6 and 7. The last few years it seems the 6's are getting harder to come by other than around the winter months when they move to their winter holes. I am curious. What is the most popular method you guys use out there in those clear lakes for these smallies and what are the typical haunts for these fish? I am guessing that it is similar to us right coast guys, tubes,flukes, hair jigs,senkos,spinnerbaits,jerk baits, spoons, etc. I am asking in a generic mode and certainly don't want you to give away your areas in here. :)

P.S.- If I ever catch a 9lb smallie, you will have to change my nickname to " Woody ", if you get my drift,lol. :)

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I'm not saying I don't believe smallmouth can look like that, I'm just saying that the clarity and color as well as some blurring make the photo look very suspicious to me. I could very well be wrong, but I have quite a bit of experience with Photoshop and I know what it would take to make a photo like that.  Either way, it doesn't really matter to me because I didn't catch it!  ;D

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Hello C312. I hear what your saying, and I also have lots of photo / photo shop experience. Something else for you to consider though.... Sometimes, some people will photo shop out something like the lure hanging from a fishes mouth, the back ground, blood on the fish, etc. This tends to make some other people skeptical about the catch (if they notice it) but often, it wasn't photoshopped "because they didn't actually catch the fish", but to hide other facts about the catch.

As for that weird coloration, check this one out that I caught from the same lake:

f5526a90.jpg

Look at the green in this things face !

Believe me, I'm as curious as anyone to whats really going on with these fish !

Peace,

Fish

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Fish_Chris,

Man, I didn't know you guys had smallmouth bass like that out there. I know why you spend so much time hunting largemouth, but I'm a little surprised other guys waste so much time fishing for "green trout!" I would always target brown fish if they are an option.

BTW, we catch lots of greenish smallmouth around here, it might be the exception, but not that unusual. Tiger stripping varies, too. You might notice in my avatar, the fat fish is dramatically striped, the longer fish's coloration was lightly striped. Both fish appeared to have greenish backs.

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I have a ? for you  guys. What kind of forage is in these lakes with these green smallies? I fish mostly in Elkhorn Creek KY, New River WV, and lake erie and I have never seen one that green. They sure are purdy though.

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That fish doesnt even look like a smallie.  I have never seen a smallie that is green like that.  Maybe it is a spot hybrid with a large mouth?  Even in the pic of the Maine smallie it is very dark gold color.  I agree with Roadwarrior that i have never seen a smallie with a bellie like that. I would be skeptical of the picture.  

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That fish doesnt even look like a smallie. I have never seen a smallie that is green like that. Maybe it is a spot hybrid with a large mouth? Even in the pic of the Maine smallie it is very dark gold color. I agree with Roadwarrior that i have never seen a smallie with a bellie like that. I would be skeptical of the picture.

But what I wrote is that I am NOT skeptical. Although I have never seen a smallmouth that looked like the one pictured, its body contour is VERY SIMILAR to those of the World Record.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/fishing/bass/article/0,19912,1179686,00.html

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I have caught spring smallies with big fat bellies like that. I still say its a legit fish. In the river they are almost always a brown color but, in the local gin clear lakes I have caught them that have more of a green color. I still think its a hybrid though. A cross between a spot and a smallie. Like I said, any way you slice or dice it you cannot take it away that it is a great fish !!! IMO

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Hello C312. I hear what your saying, and I also have lots of photo / photo shop experience. Something else for you to consider though.... Sometimes, some people will photo shop out something like the lure hanging from a fishes mouth, the back ground, blood on the fish, etc. This tends to make some other people skeptical about the catch (if they notice it) but often, it wasn't photoshopped "because they didn't actually catch the fish", but to hide other facts about the catch.

Peace,

Fish

the green color isn't what I meant by the coloration. I have no doubt that a smallie can get that green. What I meant by "coloration" was the patterns on the fish. They have much more clarity than the rest of the picture which doesn't have very high resolution.  If a portion of an image has a different amount of clarity from the rest of the image, it suggests there are two different images involved. Take your picture for example, your picture is much crisper the whole way through, the fish has a high resolution and so does your hand and your face. You can see your knuckles and the individual hairs in your mustache. The other photo lacks the clarity in the fisherman and background that is evident in the fish.

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You nay-sayers are amazing!  ;D Here you are all the way across the country doubting a catch when three guys who fish the lake and know the point where that fish got caught are all standing around twiddling their thumbs and mumbling about how it should have been their fish instead of doubting the catch!  ;D Just a clue... if all the locals don't even question the catch, regardless of markings... maybe you should follow suite. That is one SICK fish and he got her on a spot I never take the time to fish! (oops)

As for the colorations Chris is quite correct, that is a hot debate out here. There are no spots in the water or any water around it but these smallies sure look "funny". My biggest smallie out of there had the "traditional" colors, very bronze on the back, but still had the strange markings. Who knows? My partner is a fisheries biologist and we still go back and forth on the matter, he doesn't know either!

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Fish_Chris, I'm thinking it might be time to change your avatar over to the pic with the big bronzeback (greenback). What an awesome smallmouth bass.  I'm looking forward to seeing some more pictures just like that one over the course of the next month. The ice is still two feet thick up here so I'm relying on you guys to keep me going for another five or six weeks.

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One more thing C312, okay, I still hear what your saying, about "not just the color, but the color pattern".... and believe it or not, there have even been some big ones from this lake that had more of a solid, lateral line stripe too, just like that of a Spotted bass, and all variations in between. I appreciate the compliment on the sharpness of my photo, but even I have take a few that were not quite in focus, at times. Depth of field can also play a role with some stuff being in focus, and other stuff being out of focus.

Hey Matt, my old fisheries biologist buddy, Dennis Lee, retired a little while ago (total bummer :-( Does your biologists buddy have access (and better yet, funding) for DNA testing ? I'd love to get this question answered once and for all. I'd donate a 3 or 4 lb "weird colored Smallie" to find out. BTW, is your biologist buddy, also my buddy Mountain Bass ?

Hey Madhouse, I'd love to put up an 8 plus Smallie for my avatar...... unfortunately, that one I put the photo of is 'only' a 5.5 lb'er (and my PB is only a 'normal colored' 5.7 lb'er). I know, I know.... a 5.5 is a nice Smallie, but (and for the moment, Supermatt is in the same boat with me on this) from this lake, a 5.5 is hardly worth an honorable mention. I won't even feel like I can brag a little until I get my 7 plus :-)

Peace,

Fish

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One more thing C312, okay, I still hear what your saying, about "not just the color, but the color pattern".... and believe it or not, there have even been some big ones from this lake that had more of a solid, lateral line stripe too, just like that of a Spotted bass, and all variations in between. I appreciate the compliment on the sharpness of my photo, but even I have take a few that were not quite in focus, at times. Depth of field can also play a role with some stuff being in focus, and other stuff being out of focus.

I still don't think you understand what I'm saying. What I'm trying to say is that it appears that the bass's body itself has more pixels per inch than the rest of the picture. That suggests to me that two different pictures were involved, and that the bass's body was from a picture that has more pixels per inch (providing better clarity) I'm not talking about the specifics of the lateral line or coloration, but instead the photographic clarity of it. The bass should have the same blurry qualities that the rest of the photo has, specifically the blurriness in the foreground--but it doesn't, which makes suspicious. Comparatively, in your photo, both the bass and your hands and face (all at relatively the same distance from the camera and therefore should be similarly in focus) all have the same amount of photographic clarity--that's what I would expect of a fish photo, for the angler, boat, and background to match the photographic quality of the fish itself.

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Naysayers, naysayers... why don't you call this number... 209-772-1472 and ask them what the new lake record is? I'm sure the MARINA could CONFIRM that fish/photo for you. (Not that it really matters, I don't think any of us know that guy)

Hey Chris, Urban is a fisheries biologist. He and I were arguing about those fish yesterday and he, like the rest of us, doesn't know what they are.

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I don't care if this fish is real or not, the lake record or validity of this catch has no meaning to me, I'm just saying that the picture looks sketchy to me.

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I tried to see what you were saying, I stared at the photo for a while and just couldn't see a pixel change at all. (probably because its not there) The boat and fish appear the same, the background is 100 yards away so of course its going to look different. I guess the reason this topic bothers me so much is that I put a photo of my PB largemouth on a site once and I had some lurker try to convince everyone it was a fake. I can't tell you how offended I was, as fisherman all we have is our reputation. When someone who doesn't know you, or your reputation starts to tear that down it is very uncalled for.

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I tried to see what you were saying, I stared at the photo for a while and just couldn't see a pixel change at all.  

The varying resolution is quite clear. I just asked my brother over to the computer and he noticed it immediately. It's quite obvious if you are used to dealing with digital images. I'm sorry someone called your fish a fake, but in all honesty, this photo looks doctored. I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure I'm not. To prove me wrong, I'd need a good explanation for the variation in resolution. I'm not a lurker and I'm not trying to ruin anyone's reputation, I'm just saying what I see as a person who has used photoshop for 4 or 5 years.

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Okay c312, I understand exactly what you are saying now..... but on my PC monitor (a pretty sweet, new, 19" high resolution LCD too) I just can't see any difference in pixel size.

And one other thing comes to mind; I'm not sure how good this kid, or his connections are with photo shop, but if I caught a fish like this, then told everybody that I released it to go spawn, I'd be VERY tempted to give that photo a different back ground myself. I'm not saying thats what was done here (and if it was, somebody did a great job) I'm just saying I could certainly understand, if not totally excuse an action such as this.

So anyway, I'll tell everyone this "before" I stick the next lake record ;-)..... You should totally expect my photos to be backed up closely against a steep bank, or brush. No time for photo shopping :-)

Peace,

Fish

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I cannot get over the color and markings of that fish. It is beautiful, belly and all. I have caught some great large and smalls, both in areas that are hardley ever fished, and I have seen some great looking fish, but that is one hell of nice looking fish.

If you want to talk fishing, p-m me. Have a show tuesday. It will be fun, I promise.

The Radio Guy

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