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Dyneema Vs Spectra For Braid?


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#1 BASSclary

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Posted April 11 2011 - 03:11 PM

So just as the title says, what's the difference between dyneema and spectra? And do they have differing characteristics? Which one do you prefer?

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#2 Nixstyx

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Posted April 11 2011 - 08:10 PM

So just as the title says, what's the difference between dyneema and spectra? And do they have differing characteristics? Which one do you prefer?


The easy answer is they're pretty much the same. Spectra is a brand name fiber made by Honeywell.Dyneema is produced by DSM. They are chemically the same material: Ultra-High Molecular Weight Polyethylene. The only possible difference is in the manufacturing process, though I would imagine that info is proprietary.

So, for all practical purposes, I would consider them the same. I have used both Dyneema and Spectra "slings" for rock climbing, and have never noticed a difference in quality or durability. Never noticed any difference in fishing line either. I trust both with my life, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over which you are using on your reel. Posted Image

#3 Hooligan

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Posted April 11 2011 - 08:18 PM

The easy answer is they're pretty much the same. Spectra is a brand name fiber made by Honeywell.Dyneema is produced by DSM. They are chemically the same material: Ultra-High Molecular Weight Polyethylene. The only possible difference is in the manufacturing process, though I would imagine that info is proprietary.

So, for all practical purposes, I would consider them the same. I have used both Dyneema and Spectra "slings" for rock climbing, and have never noticed a difference in quality or durability. Never noticed any difference in fishing line either. I trust both with my life, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over which you are using on your reel. Posted Image


Dead on. There is a minor difference in fiber weight and rigidity between the two, based on the process. One is gel-spun, one is extruded. The process in which the individual fibers are spun then braided and coated are the differences that we would compare.
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#4 Nixstyx

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Posted April 11 2011 - 08:42 PM

Dead on. There is a minor difference in fiber weight and rigidity between the two, based on the process. One is gel-spun, one is extruded. The process in which the individual fibers are spun then braided and coated are the differences that we would compare.


Thanks for the clarification. I would suspect -- though I'm not an expert by any means -- that the differences between how fishing line companies "build" (i.e. braid pattern, line coating) the line could potentially skew any fair comparison between Spectra or Dyneema. For example, both Suffix 832 and Spiderwire braids are made with Dyneema, but they are very different lines with different properties. I'd even suggest that Suffix is more similar to PowerPro, which is made with Spectra. I'm not trying to kill the discussion, just pointing out that comparing the two is very difficult since the products are not in their "pure" form by the time we get our hands on them in the form of braided line.

#5 Hooligan

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Posted April 11 2011 - 08:59 PM

That's a very good way to put it. Given that the two are so similar in the first place, you can't compare the base fiber on their own merits when you're talking about a finished line. I think that it's more appropriate to compare the finished lines.
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#6 kennyo

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Posted April 16 2011 - 10:54 PM

While i agree, that the finished lines are what should be compared....

Saying the base fibers of spectra and dyneema are basically the same isn't necessarily true.

Ask any archers who build their own bowstrings (like me) if spectra and dyneema have the same properties and they will tell u they are very different materials. In my experience with the materials, spectra will continue to stretch over its lifetime, while dyneema has an initial period where it stretches a small amount and then it becomes very stable with almost zero stretch for the rest of its working life.

Abrasion resistance wise spectra is more resistant to fraying, while dyneema has a greater tendency to fray (but this can be controlled through waxing/coating).

#7 OkobojiEagle

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Posted April 17 2011 - 07:11 AM

While i agree, that the finished lines are what should be compared....

Saying the base fibers of spectra and dyneema are basically the same isn't necessarily true.

Ask any archers who build their own bowstrings (like me) if spectra and dyneema have the same properties and they will tell u they are very different materials. In my experience with the materials, spectra will continue to stretch over its lifetime, while dyneema has an initial period where it stretches a small amount and then it becomes very stable with almost zero stretch for the rest of its working life.

Abrasion resistance wise spectra is more resistant to fraying, while dyneema has a greater tendency to fray (but this can be controlled through waxing/coating).


Will you link to your source please.

oe

#8 Hooligan

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Posted April 17 2011 - 11:40 AM

While i agree, that the finished lines are what should be compared....

Saying the base fibers of spectra and dyneema are basically the same isn't necessarily true.

Ask any archers who build their own bowstrings (like me) if spectra and dyneema have the same properties and they will tell u they are very different materials. In my experience with the materials, spectra will continue to stretch over its lifetime, while dyneema has an initial period where it stretches a small amount and then it becomes very stable with almost zero stretch for the rest of its working life.

Abrasion resistance wise spectra is more resistant to fraying, while dyneema has a greater tendency to fray (but this can be controlled through waxing/coating).

I heartily disagree. The names of the fibers are the primary difference. They are both ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene with the same natural coloration (Or lack thereof) and have the same abrasion resistance, the same molecular structure, and the same molecular weight. Any perceived difference is just that, perceived. Again, if you are talking about a processed and finished fiber that is ready for consumer use, such as that for thread, bowstrings, faring, or any other; you should be comparing properties of the finished material, not the fibers themselves.
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#9 kennyo

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Posted April 17 2011 - 03:12 PM

I heartily disagree. The names of the fibers are the primary difference. They are both ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene with the same natural coloration (Or lack thereof) and have the same abrasion resistance, the same molecular structure, and the same molecular weight. Any perceived difference is just that, perceived. Again, if you are talking about a processed and finished fiber that is ready for consumer use, such as that for thread, bowstrings, faring, or any other; you should be comparing properties of the finished material, not the fibers themselves.



My first statement was agreeing with you that you should compare the finished products.

But even though they are both HPME, they are manufactured by different companies. In addition, there are different versions of both spectra and dyneema and i doubt the line manufacturers are going to tell us which version of the materials they are using. Even if they are using the equivilent fibers to make the line (Spectra 2000 = SK75 Dyneema) unless you have insight into the exact manufacturing practices of the two companies you can't say they are the same. Very, Very similar yes, but not the same.

Here is some input on the Base fibers, history, and manufacturers... This is a response from BCY (a Bowstring Material Manufacturer)
Question:
What is the difference between Spectra and Dyneema?
Answer: Not very much. Both products are HMPE (high modulus polyethylene) materials. This product was originally developed by DSM in Europe and licensed to Allied Chemicals for production in the United States. Until recently, you could not purchase Dyneema in the USA because of a licensing agreement between DSM and Allied Chemicals.
BCY introducted Dyneema to the archery market in 1995 with its DynaFLIGHT bowstring material which was made from SK65 Dyneema. In 1997, DSM began manufacturing SK75, a higher strength Dyneema with less creep, and BCY introduced this with DynaFLIGHT 97 bowstring materials in 1997.
There are some slight differences in the two products, Spectra and Dyneema, which really do not effect the performance as an archery bowstring. These would be the number of filaments and the actual makeup of the yarn. In general, SK65 Dyneema is equal to Spectra 1000 and SK75 Dyneema equals Spectra 2000. Note that Spectra 2000 is not available in heavy deniers suitable for making archery bowstring material.
The main benefits of Spectra and Dyneema over other fibers previously used in archery bowstrings are their extremely high strength and durability. The high strength results in very low creep.
Technical information about both products can be accessed through the Internet if you are looking for additional technical data.

And i will standby my statement that dyneema based bowstrings are very low stretch, compared to equivilent spectra based products. This may or maynot translate to much difference in fishing lines made with the 2 products but it does make a big difference in bowstrings. This is likely because Spectra 2000 is not available in deniers suitable for bowstrings as indicated by BCY. This could have similiar implications in heavier tests of fishing line, since most bowstrings are multiple strands (12 to 18) and need to carry a load of ~70 to 100 pounds.

KennyO

#10 Hooligan

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Posted April 17 2011 - 04:28 PM

I follow your original statement after reading it again. As for the rest of it, much of it we're saying the same thing There are points we disagree on and I'm fine with that if you are.
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#11 OkobojiEagle

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Posted April 17 2011 - 05:10 PM

kennyo... Even though I wouldn't know which side of a bow to stand on, I do appreciate you posting that information.

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#12 Hooligan

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Posted April 17 2011 - 07:43 PM

If you want to learn more about these dynamic fibers:
http://en.wikipedia....ht_polyethylene

http://www51.honeywell.com/sm/afc/

http://www.dyneema.com/

Some really cool information.
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#13 kennyo

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Posted April 17 2011 - 07:55 PM

I follow your original statement after reading it again. As for the rest of it, much of it we're saying the same thing There are points we disagree on and I'm fine with that if you are.


Yep. Its all good :-)

#14 A-Rob

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Posted April 18 2011 - 06:56 PM

whatever Power Pro is works for me.

#15 Bassmaster Bill

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Posted April 18 2011 - 10:41 PM

I am using both Sufix 832 #30 (Dynema+Gore strand) and Power Pro (Spectra) and I can tell a difference. The Power Pro seems a little more 'rough' and I can feel is rubbing the guides when I reel it in. This, however, does not seem to impact casting at all. The Sufix 832 is much smoother when I'm retrieving with it.