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WRangler506

Is extraFast action TOO FAST?

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So....I bought some really nice rods over the winter. A few St Croix Avids, Xs, and Legend Tournaments. So far Ive really only used the 63 LT MXF and MLXF. They seem comfy, VERY sensitive, and jig great.

Problem is, the few walleye I caught on the 63 MXF felt weird, compared to a slower action like what Im used to. You just don't fish with that sweeping hookset, or even close. There is no give other than the first few inches of the rod tip. Maybe the ML will feel better? Allowing more flex of the whole blank.

 

Anyone else have this issue? Im sitting here wondering if I should have skipped all these XF rods and went for a slightly more versatile and normal feeling Fast action. I also bought a LTB 610 MLXF  and put a stradic FK on it for dropshots. That one feels a little more normal. Maybe it was the Mediums with heavy jigs that was feeling odd.

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Personally, I'm not a fan of xtra fast rods for the most part. However, 'how it feels' isn't the best basis for judging IMO, but instead, how it fishes. There are some presentations where xf will cost you fish in one form or another. For everything else, it's more personal preference.

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Oddly the only two St Croix's I have are XF so I can't compare their F lineups.

 

For me I like an XF on something that I lose contact with frequently. Techniques like a jerk bait or a Ned rig. All of the action comes from the rod and I need it to reset and be stiff right away if I have to set into slack line.

 

On the flip side I like a MF for techniques where I want to load the rod up before I set like swimbaits, C-rigs, and football jigs. A Fast action is just kind of the Goldilocks for everything else.

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I've got a Legend Tournament Walley 6'3" MLXF

that, when it was actually 6'3" fished extremely

well for my techniques - wacky and drop mostly.

Now it's lost about 5", it fishes more like a MXF,

which is a tad stiff for what I like -- with St. Croix.

 

I also have a 6' MLF Premiere that is much more

forgiving in the tip. I've actually had to adjust my

style just a tad for the F tip, but I'm liking it just

fine for Ned rigging.

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St Croix rod tapers are a little faster than they label them too. So a fast is more like a Extra Fast.

 

I don't care much for an Extra Fast myself, especially when using braid. There's just no flex in the system then, which gives me a very awkward feel, and makes fighting the fish more difficult.

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I have stopped worrying about the difference as is differs from company to company and sometimes series within a company 

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38 super fan has a good point in mentioning the effect of braid on the system.  If you are now using braid, try either a longer FC leader, like 10-12 feet to get some give in the system, or go to mono.  You may find the XF feels right with some give in the system.  Although with ML power, it may not make enough difference.  You'd notice it more with more powerful blanks.

 

If you're already using mono or FC, there is no way to significantly soften the system further.

 

As a comparison, I have 6 1/2 foot Avid medium power fast actions, and 7 foot medium power Legends, all used with braid, and in my opinion they are not "too fast" at all.  St. Croix power ratings usually are different than other brands, too, with a medium power St Croix being a little more powerful than other medium powers.

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Asking the wrong guy here, I like a softer, slower (yeah, I said it) and lighter action rod than most for most applications.

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I just recently broke my 7'1 MHXF Rage and I'm shedding a tear.  I've paired it with braid for the past few years and absolutely loved it as a jig rod because the combo of braid and the XF tip made it easy to feel and figure out basically everything I was coming into contact with regardless of weeds, rocks, current, etc.  Mind you, I fished largely without electronics up until the last few years, so that feel, for me at least, is huge.  It looks like I'll likely replace it with a LTB in the same weight and action.

 

I also have a 6'8 MLXF Avid X.  Obviously a much lighter weight, but also a much different action.  The flex in that rod often goes much deeper into the blank, even with the XF tip.  I can still feel the bottom well with it, but not nearly as well as with the bigger, stiffer blank.  The trade off is that I can fish small treble hooked baits with it like X-Pops without much fear of fish shaking the trebles.  

 

Still, I do prefer their Fast for a lot of other presentations where I don't need to process as much, or need a little more flex through the blank to improve my casting distance with lighter weights.  

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St. Croix's medium power is more powerful than most other manufacturers.  This is the case for most rods in their freshwater series. That is probably what you're experiencing with that 63MXF.  I have many of their MLXF rods.  They are my favorites and my go-to dropshot rods.

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It's neither fair nor possible to evaluate 'extra-fast' action in isolation.

Blank parameters always incorporate the synergetic relationship between

target species, predominate cover, blank power, blank length, blank material and line material.

Without filling in all the blanks, there's no hope for a cogent response   :)

 

Roger

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For my walleye fishing I came from a loomis IMX blank that was custom made which had slow taper and went to a MLXF Elite and I absolutely love the extra fast tip for jigging walleye (my favorite species to fish for. Had a very slow day today actually) but the I wont be without that XF action any more.

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80% of my rods are XF.  Most of my fishing is in clear water gravel pits and the Great Miami River throwing tubes and light plastics.

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19 hours ago, Team9nine said:

However, 'how it feels' isn't the best basis for judging IMO, but instead, how it fishes. 

 

I do not believe in technique specific anything, I do not look at rod rating, I do not look at lure weight ratings, I do not look at line rating!

 

I carry my reel with me when buying a rod, I string it up, tie a lure on, & get the basic feel in the store. Once I've taken to the lake & it does not "feel" right I will return it.

 

It's personal preference period!

 

Oh Yea! My personal preference usually turns out to be medium heavy extra fast.

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I don't like anything more than a fast action and I generally prefer the slower side of fast. In general when possible I prefer more moderate fast actions than true fast but as stated above this varies between companies.

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It's a matter of personal preference, I have a couple of XF rods which I like very much, a MH XF Shimano Clarus spinning which I love for fishing weghtless "flukes" and jigheads and a H XF Clarus which I use for flipping/pitching/spinnerbaiting in bewtween woody cover. For most of the time I fish with F rods but those two do what I do with them really well.

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I like 'em!  At one time I had every XF spinning rod in the Avid line.  I got rid of the 63MLXF(too wimpy for me) but still have all the others. The MXF's are my favorite finesse rods.  The 69MLXF is mainly my panfish rod.

 

I've about 5 or 6 Shimano Crucial casting that are XF and love 'em.  Like Catt, my preference as well.

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4 hours ago, Catt said:

 

I do not believe in technique specific anything, I do not look at rod rating, I do not look at lure weight ratings, I do not look at line rating!

 

I carry my reel with me when buying a rod, I string it up, tie a lure on, & get the basic feel in the store. Once I've taken to the lake & it does not "feel" right I will return it.

 

It's personal preference period!

 

Oh Yea! My personal preference usually turns out to be medium heavy extra fast.

 

Guess I should expound on my original statement. If you've never fished an xf rod, or perhaps a glass parabolic rod, etc., very easy to think it doesn't "feel" right, mainly because you don't have experience with those type actions. In those cases, "feeling" should take a back seat to how well the rod fishes.

 

Similarly, I have an xf rod that "feels" absolutely great to me. I love fishing with it, but I also know it costs me some fish when I use it with certain techniques because the action isn't suited to certain bait types or presentations. Many days I still throw it anyway, because I like how it feels, and just accept and live with the losses. That's my personal choice, And I'm just fun fishing. But I'd never use that rod in those instances if $$ was on the line - that would just be stupid. 

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Just to add another layer of confusion there is a big difference between spinning and baitcasting rods power and action, no comparison between the 2 rod types.

Tom

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On 5/7/2017 at 12:40 PM, WRB said:

Just to add another layer of confusion there is a big difference between spinning and baitcasting rods power and action, no comparison between the 2 rod types.

Tom

I know this is an old thread, but what is the difference mentioned above? How would a medium fast spinning compare to a medium fast casting power and action?

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Nothing by definition. It’s all subjective so it depends on the makers. Spinning rods in the same line may run less powerful than a casting rod with similar labels. 

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Only XF rods I use are a pair of St Croix Avid X. Both are 6'9"MLXF's. They are paired with Shimano Stradic 3000Ci4+ spinning reels. I use them for finesse plastics, lighter wacky worms, any other finesse applications. Love'em!

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Technically you can biuld a spinning or casting rod using the same blank.

However the casting motion is different between the 2 rods, spinning most anglers snap cast loading the rod very quickly and baitcasting most anglers use a slower casting motion to allow the rod to load up before making a forward casting motion. To compensate for a snap cast spinning rods tend to use slower action with less power compared to similar "rated" baitcasting rods. Example a MH spinning rod blank may use a M baitcasting rod blank. For that reason it's very hard to find ML baitcasting rods.

Tom

 

 

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9 hours ago, WRB said:

Technically you can biuld a spinning or casting rod using the same blank.

However the casting motion is different between the 2 rods, spinning most anglers snap cast loading the rod very quickly and baitcasting most anglers use a slower casting motion to allow the rod to load up before making a forward casting motion. To compensate for a snap cast spinning rods tend to use slower action with less power compared to similar "rated" baitcasting rods. Example a MH spinning rod blank may use a M baitcasting rod blank. For that reason it's very hard to find ML baitcasting rods.

Tom

 

 

Many companies make ML power baitcasting rods. St Croix, Shimano, Phenix, Dobyns, Abu Garcia, and many others manufacture ML casting rods. 

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