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tcbass

Have rods reached a plateau in technology for quite some time?

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As long as they can convince anglers their latest buzz word is a must have there will be no plateau!

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Is the technology advancing or the marketing team getting better?

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13 hours ago, Further North said:

Carrying the battery to power it would suck... ;)

By the time this tech reaches the rod market, 

there will be built-in power, or tiny batteries that

slide in the butt end of the rod :) that can also

be used for counter-balancing! Or we might even

have solar-powered-self-healing rod blanks!! 

 

We'll have to get Phil Swift to do the promo.

BxVo_EoIIAAP3pB.jpg

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With St Croixs new Legend X having every piece of tech they make maybe they'll take two or so years and come up with something new.

 

The new thing is the X wrapping that Shimano makes such a huge deal about, despite Abu having the same tech on rods that cost half as much.

 

Also, I did like the swooping guide train on the Avid Xs that is relatively new. Makes a lot of sense and seems to produce better casting.

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On 1/8/2018 at 7:02 AM, Preytorien said:

I always think the same thing about bicycles. I ride some oh-my-god expensive race bikes, and every year I'm like, what can they possibly improve, but they do somehow. Something stiffer, lighter, more responsive, prettier, I dunno. 

 

One of my favorite things to do is climb away from expensive D-ace, or Red (The Campy guys I leave alone), all Envied® out latest and greatest sub 16 lb bikes on my mid 90s Trek OCLV (with downtube shifters)...

Kind to think of it I do the same with rods and reels...

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On 1/10/2018 at 8:42 AM, Chance_Taker4 said:

Before I got wrapped up in the fishing world I was heavy into the paintball world. It was growing exponentially with the latest and greatest technology being released every year. However the difference was just like in the car industry when the new gun was released last years model was discontinued. Every year I was buying a gun for about $1200 just to sell it for $400 (if I was lucky) to pay another $1200. Finally in about 2009 technology plateaued and sales dropped. In 2011 manufactures decided it wasn't in their best interest to release a new gun every year and now they are released every 3 years.

 

I think the fishing industry is heading in the same direction. There are longer gaps in between latest and greatest releases. An example would be, I know this topic was brought up about rods,  the Curado. Shimano released a new Curado every three years however between the I and K there are 5 years. Abu Garcia lengthen the time between updates not only their reels but their rods. I think we are at a time period in the fishing industry where technology has slowed whether its because it hasn't been discovered or materials are just too expensive to use. In the next 5 years there will be another jump start in the market that will push new products faster with better technology.

 

 

With cars and trucks now you expect a redesign every few years which is nice because for a few years if you buy a new car it won't change for a few years.

 

However, the bow industry is just like the paintball industry was, you have to have new models each year which is a disservice to customers because they throw away a lot of great bow models just to have a "new" model for next year and the new model might not actually be an improvement.....but because they have to have a new model every year it gets rolled out.

 

This new bow maybe a few FPS faster, an ounce lighter, "smoother", or have less shock, but there really isn't anything new because you can only change a cam so much. 

 

So, what did the bow industry do? They just raised the price of flagship bows from an expensive $1,000 to $1,200-$1,400. Unreal.

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On 1/10/2018 at 10:01 AM, fishindad said:

In the time I've been fishing (50 yrs), yes rod technology has come a long way. Fenwick glass Lunkerstiks were the deal back in the day for bass fishing. Then Loomis IM6, Fenwick's HMG graphite rods and Skyline graphite rods were the deal. To be honest, after Loomis GLX and Fuji Alconite guides were introduced (80's?), there has been no real "drastic" (to use your word, tcbass) improvement in rod tech, IMO. I'm sure rod blank makers will tell you there's a trade-off between stiffness, weight reduction, durability, action, sensitivity, etc. such that there is a finite limit to what a rod can weigh and still have the power, action and durability to catch bass (fish). The reduction in rod weight has made it possible for anglers to use much longer rods than before and this (using light, sensitive 7 foot + rods) has definitely improved everyone's bass angling experience. 

 

The main technological improvements that have been made over the years are from Gary Loomis and his development of IM6-IMX-GLX-NRX, which everyone can agree are relatively miniscule improvements. Same with the move from Alconite-SiC-Torzite guides. Yes, those are definite tech improvements but in the end, things like recoil guides, EVA/Winn grip handles, Microwave guides, split grips, JDM "bling" are not what I would consider technological improvements. Just ways for companies to get anglers (and golfers as mentioned) to upgrade their rods every year or two. I was on that train myself until a few years ago and if I could, I would turn back the clock to buy all the original Loomis Weibe handle IMX/GLX rods I could get my hands on because those rods were the best ever made, IMO. They need to put the MBR 842, 843, and 844 in some bass fishing hall of fame. 

I have a few Skyline and HMG rods, even an old Shimano cold forged handle rod.  After seein this thread I took the HMG and put a reel on it with some FC line.  Tied on a jig and took it along with a Dobyns Fury rod to my pool.  The comparison was jarring, the HMG i recall as being ultra sensitive felt dead compared to the fury.  Bumping the bottom after pulling the jig down a step was almost undetectable never mind pebble tech bottom.  The Dobyns Fury felt everything. 

Graphene and other materials especially resins will continue to improve our rods but who can say for certain how much.

thanks for mentioning those rods, brought back memories of the hard work my Dad mad me do to earn the $ to buy them.  I guess that's why I still have them.

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7 hours ago, tcbass said:

 

 

With cars and trucks now you expect a redesign every few years which is nice because for a few years if you buy a new car it won't change for a few years.

 

However, the bow industry is just like the paintball industry was, you have to have new models each year which is a disservice to customers because they throw away a lot of great bow models just to have a "new" model for next year and the new model might not actually be an improvement.....but because they have to have a new model every year it gets rolled out.

 

This new bow maybe a few FPS faster, an ounce lighter, "smoother", or have less shock, but there really isn't anything new because you can only change a cam so much. 

 

So, what did the bow industry do? They just raised the price of flagship bows from an expensive $1,000 to $1,200-$1,400. Unreal.


I'm sure it increases sales for the producing company but it completely kills the second hand business. And to me if you want to grow an expensive sport, paintball, bow hunting, bass fishing, you need a strong used market to introduce new people to the gear. I new person isn't going to spend thousands on gear. I think the biggest positive of the increase in technology is it expanded the $80-$100 rod market and that is the market that will help grow the sport. Your starting to see that trickle down to inexpensive reels as well.

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On 1/10/2018 at 10:51 PM, Turkey sandwich said:

 

The new Helios seems like one incredible stick.  I have had the pleasure of handling a few and between the shape retention technology and offering more than one tip, they're doing some really interesting things.  I think the biggest thing happening in fly rods is that manufacturers are beginning to learn that anglers want specialized rods for streamers, nymphing, etc and that simply beefing up a blank on a great 4 wt doesn't necessarily make for a good 8 wt.  The St. Croix and TFO lines designed for specific applications seem like excellent rods, as do the new Sage ultra fast action rods designed to be over-lined for streamer fishing.  I'm very happy that it seems like that industry is moving past inconclusive science like Winston's insistence on boron.  

 

Well said...there's a reason I have five or six 8 wt. rods: One is for "finesse" topwater (think Ol. Mr. Wiggly), one is for big pike muskie flies (see below)...and the rest are spread out in between.

 

Variations_on_a_Theme.jpg

 

I am anxious to get my hands on the Axiom II...I want to see how it compares to the first generation Axiom that I use for those bigger streamers.  It's not going to be an H3...but I have a good impression of one from a guy who has been fly fishing for 50 years...he contrasted it to the H3 favorably, particularly for 1/3 the $$$.

On 1/11/2018 at 10:08 AM, Darren. said:

By the time this tech reaches the rod market, 

there will be built-in power, or tiny batteries that

slide in the butt end of the rod :) that can also

be used for counter-balancing! Or we might even

have solar-powered-self-healing rod blanks!! 

 

We'll have to get Phil Swift to do the promo.

BxVo_EoIIAAP3pB.jpg

Made me laugh...but I want the Shamwow guy....

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On 1/11/2018 at 12:26 PM, bugbee77 said:

With St Croixs new Legend X having every piece of tech they make maybe they'll take two or so years and come up with something new.

 

The new thing is the X wrapping that Shimano makes such a huge deal about, despite Abu having the same tech on rods that cost half as much.

 

Also, I did like the swooping guide train on the Avid Xs that is relatively new. Makes a lot of sense and seems to produce better casting.

So...weirdness...I reacted to "Legend X" because it is the name of a line of (IMO) exceptional fly rods by St. Croix...they are apparently discontinued, and it anyone one is looking for a world class, made in the USA rod at offshore pricing, they still have them in 7, 9 and 10 wt. at $250.

 

So anyway...I searched the St. Croix site, and nothing came up for Legend X other than the fly rods...but a Google search turns casting and spinning rods at TW...

 

But here's where I get confused...it looks like the Legend X casting and spinning rods have cork grips, rather than the Xtreme Skin handles I love so much on my Legend X Fly rod and Legend Xtreme Spinning rod...

 

Color me confused...

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35 minutes ago, Further North said:

Well said...there's a reason I have five or six 8 wt. rods: One is for "finesse" topwater (think Ol. Mr. Wiggly), one is for big pike muskie flies (see below)...and the rest are spread out in between.

 

Variations_on_a_Theme.jpg

 

I am anxious to get my hands on the Axiom II...I want to see how it compares to the first generation Axiom that I use for those bigger streamers.  It's not going to be an H3...but I have a good impression of one from a guy who has been fly fishing for 50 years...he contrasted it to the H3 favorably, particularly for 1/3 the $$$.

Made me laugh...but I want the Shamwow guy....

Here ya go! VINCE!!

 

8c8881134-shamwowguy.nbcnews-ux-600-700.

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1 minute ago, Darren. said:

Here ya go! VINCE!!

 

8c8881134-shamwowguy.nbcnews-ux-600-700.

That's guy.  Made me wince every time...I recall him getting in some kind of trouble...

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54 minutes ago, Further North said:

That's guy.  Made me wince every time...I recall him getting in some kind of trouble...

Heh, yeah...from his Wikipedia page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Offer

Quote

On February 7, 2009, Offer was arrested in Miami Beach, Florida on a charge of felony battery after an altercation with a 26-year-old sex worker. Offer contended that he struck the prostitute when she "bit his tongue and would not let go." Prosecutors later declined to file formal charges against either person.[2][30][31]

 

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19 hours ago, mhilgtx said:

I have a few Skyline and HMG rods, even an old Shimano cold forged handle rod.  After seein this thread I took the HMG and put a reel on it with some FC line.  Tied on a jig and took it along with a Dobyns Fury rod to my pool.  The comparison was jarring, the HMG i recall as being ultra sensitive felt dead compared to the fury.  Bumping the bottom after pulling the jig down a step was almost undetectable never mind pebble tech bottom.  The Dobyns Fury felt everything. 

Graphene and other materials especially resins will continue to improve our rods but who can say for certain how much.

thanks for mentioning those rods, brought back memories of the hard work my Dad mad me do to earn the $ to buy them.  I guess that's why I still have them.

As I recall, Skyline rods were produced out of Texas? I have a different experience in that I kept two original Fenwick Techna AV spinning rods (around 30 years old), the ones with Fuji double foot SiC guides and Aramid Veil, which are still one of my strongest most sensitive rods. Bums me out because I had 4 but broke one in a rod locker and the ex-wife trashed another one : (  I bring them out from time to time for nostalgia's sake.

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As rods and line guides get lighter and stronger, guide spacing will decrease, which should increase performance. 

 

Personally, I'm looking forward to reels that don't backlash due to computer technology.  You could cast much farther with no brakes and no backlash. And eventually there might be braided line that becomes invisible under water, like today's fluorocarbon.

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2 hours ago, Further North said:

So...weirdness...I reacted to "Legend X" because it is the name of a line of (IMO) exceptional fly rods by St. Croix...they are apparently discontinued, and it anyone one is looking for a world class, made in the USA rod at offshore pricing, they still have them in 7, 9 and 10 wt. at $250.

 

So anyway...I searched the St. Croix site, and nothing came up for Legend X other than the fly rods...but a Google search turns casting and spinning rods at TW...

 

But here's where I get confused...it looks like the Legend X casting and spinning rods have cork grips, rather than the Xtreme Skin handles I love so much on my Legend X Fly rod and Legend Xtreme Spinning rod...

 

Color me confused...

St Croix came out with a bunch of new Avid models, a 2 piece mojo, new legend class models, the new tournament bass, and the new legend x line but haven't updated their website yet. Check Tackle Warehouse. They have them all listed. 

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On 1/12/2018 at 9:17 PM, hawgenvy said:

As rods and line guides get lighter and stronger, guide spacing will decrease, which should increase performance. 

 

Personally, I'm looking forward to reels that don't backlash due to computer technology.  You could cast much farther with no brakes and no backlash. And eventually there might be braided line that becomes invisible under water, like today's fluorocarbon.

 

 

How could they make braid nearly invisible?

 

 

Why would having guides closer together increase casting, wouldn't that be more guides thus more friction? Or do you mean less guides friction?

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It's called R&D.  Happens in any manufacturing company. ;)

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I think backlash proof reels will be introduced before there is a discernable difference in rods.

 

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4 hours ago, tcbass said:

 

 

How could they make braid nearly invisible?

 

 

Why would having guides closer together increase casting, wouldn't that be more guides thus more friction? Or do you mean less guides friction?

What I really meant by "invisible braid" is a tough, no stretch, thin, supple line with braid's properties but fluoro's transparency -- a line of the future, a product merely of my imagination.

 

Computerized, backlash-proof reels actually exist in Japan but are expensive and may lack durability and reliability. I don't really know much more. But I bet they will be the next great thing in casting reels, one of these days. Imagine skipping docks and bushes with that baby!

 

Optimal guide spacing is a compromise between light weight, durability, low friction materials and several other factors. Too few guides may increase resistance due to line slap and angles between guides as rod bend increases. Increasing guides can improve sensitivity by increasing contact points with the line and improves the smooth arc of line as the rod bends, but increases weight. But I'm not an expert and don't know the formulae or the science in any detail. There is actually a website with a bunch of forums on the subject called GuideSpacing.com

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13 hours ago, hawgenvy said:

Computerized, backlash-proof reels actually exist in Japan

They've been here for over a decade.  Calais DC. ;)

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Are DC reels really "backlash proof" or just really "backlash resistant"?  Like can one slam a lure into a dock piling 10' into the cast and be fine?   

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Short of something really dumb, yes.  My buddy @Maico1 has several that I've tried.  They're pretty amazing.

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6 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Short of something really dumb, yes.  

Well geez, what's the point then :P

 

I would love to try one, but don't want to blind-buy reels anymore, I guess I need to track one down to demo.  

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