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WRangler506

Moderate Fast Spinning Rods

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Ive seen a few spinning rods like the ELite Tech BASS Mod Fast and the St Croix moderate fast, what are these intended for? Only crankbaits?

 

If so, does a standard fast not work good with crankbaits, or the mod Fast is just better?

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49 minutes ago, WRangler506 said:

Ive seen a few spinning rods like the ELite Tech BASS Mod Fast and the St Croix moderate fast, what are these intended for? Only crankbaits?

 

If so, does a standard fast not work good with crankbaits, or the mod Fast is just better?

 

St Croix actually has a legend glass 7' moderate spinning rod coming out this spring. I think their stuff is meant for tossing Rapala shad raps, or any other similar lightweight balsa crankbaits. I think the term being used is "finesse cranking". Really, St Croix knows there's a market in the walleye angler world for guys who don't use baitcasters but want to cast crankbaits. The shad rap is a walleye fishing staple and is difficult to cast. 

 

I think a standard fast medium or medium light would be perfectly fine for throwing light balsa cranks, BUT these rod companies need to expand their lines and get anglers to buy more stuff.. so having a moderate/glass application for this MUST be better, right? 

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Many inshore spinning rods have a moderate or mod fast action and they are not intended for cranking.  I think they are more for live bait situations and for speckled/sea trout with softer mouths.  I've cranked with fast spinning rods, it's not ideal, but it works.  I was even using braid to fluoro leader.  You could probably go mono with a fast action and mitigate some of the shock.

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Moderate fast for live bait presentations.  It's easier to lob a soft shell crab on a split shot rig using a moderately tapered spinning rod. 

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I use them for bass fishing as well as inshore fishing. I much prefer them to fast action rods for general use. The only time I feel a fast action preforms better is when drop shotting. One thing to keep in mind is there is no industry standard for this. Many feel the Dobyns Sierra line is on the slower side of fast but for me this is as fast of a rod as I like. I love the Avid line from St Croix but I find the actions to be just to fast for me when it comes to general use. My light jig rod (when I say jigs I mean jig head tipped with plastic or a hair jig) is a Cajun Custom Rods Trigger and that rod will bend in half and flex almost all the way to the second guide, but it is amazing at casting a 1/16th marabou jig or a 1/32 oz jig with a 3 inch grub on the back.

 

All rods have a purpose but for general use a 7 foot medium power mod fast action is about as good as it gets when it comes to a general purpose spinning rod for how and where I fish.

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Spinnerbaits, poppers, deep jerks, sammys, and anything that needs the bait to pull, not the rod. I suggest a MH so it has a little backbone but if you do some of these with a Fast tip it just launchs a bait towards your face. 

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Medium  mods are good for most baits that have trebles. My wife uses hers' for jerkbaits, rattle traps, but also spinnerbaits and vibrating jigs as well.

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Just seem that most rods are marketed toward fast and extra fast actions. I Crankbait fish with St. Croix Permeire Crankbait rods. They have more of a moderate action and a bit softer of a tip. You could look at some of the Cabela's and Bass pro Shops Tourny type spinning rods and I think you'll find them to have a bit softer action. For Crankbait fishing I think you'll find these to be good for lighter crank baits. 1/4, 5/16, 3/8 & 7/16 fish well with these rods. I find my better rods and more senseative are geared toward soft plastics. 

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9 hours ago, Will1248 said:

Spinnerbaits, poppers, deep jerks, sammys, and anything that needs the bait to pull, not the rod. I suggest a MH so it has a little backbone but if you do some of these with a Fast tip it just launchs a bait towards your face. 

For every single one of those baits, I and many others would prefer the control of an X-Fast taper, not slower.  In the case of spinnerbaits, you need to dip into the power section of the blank sooner than later (hence the "speed" ratings), and the fast recovery time of an XF after the twitch offers the best control of the bait, and better strike detection.  Lastly, I don't know anyone that uses a spinning combo for any of those baits.  I'm not saying it's wrong, just noting that it's an odd and out of place recommendation.  Do you really use a moderate spinning rig for these?

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@J Francho no. The question was what else you can use mod for. I do find that a mod tip helps with poppers and deep jerkbaits (i use the retrieve instead of the rod, more of a sweeping motion instead of a twitch since you are pulling water not the bait in that instance) as well as colorado blade wakebaits. They load better and allow the fish to hook itself, instead of you ripping it out when they are only playing with it. I have beat several high ranked friends because their XF tip launches the bait 10ft away from the fish ripping out an easily caught fish when mine loads the hook into the fish. Not willow blades though, you need a faster reel. For poppers and spinnerbaits spinning work great, really displaces more water with the low gear ratio and rod flex. Lets the bait do its job instead of the angler. Works best in winter since the presentation is slower and you do less work. 

 

Do you really speak this condescending to all the members? 

Its not like people do different things or techniques, and need to be spoken down to like a 4 yr old. Pro tip. Just because somthing is popular doesnt mean its right. And the right thing isnt always popular.

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I wouldn't say 'only' crankbaits, but that is where they excel.  Great for throwing Mann's Baby -1's, Wee Rebel, <1/4oz balsa cranks, 1/4 oz lipless, 3-4" jerkbaits, etc.  All great baits that can be a challenge on baitcasting rods.  Also good for 1/16oz mojo rigs, because of casting distance, though may not be perfect for setting hook with single hook lures.  I've used them for 1/16oz ned rigs, also.

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1 minute ago, Will1248 said:

@J Francho no. The question was what else you can use mod for. I do find that a mod tip helps with poppers and deep jerkbaits (i use the retrieve instead of the rod, more of a sweeping motion instead of a twitch since you are pulling water not the bait in that instance) as well as colorado blade wakebaits. They load better and allow the fish to hook itself, instead of you ripping it out when they are only playing with it. I have beat several high ranked friends because their XF tip launches the bait 10ft away from the fish ripping out an easily caught fish when mine loads the hook into the fish. Not willow blades though, you need a faster reel. For poppers and spinnerbaits spinning work great, really displaces more water with the low gear ratio and rod flex. Lets the bait do its job instead of the angler. Works best in winter since the presentation is slower and you do less work. 

 

Do you really speak this condescending to all the members? 

Its not like people do different things or techniques, and need to be spoken down to like a 4 yr old. Pro tip. Just because somthing is popular doesnt mean its right. And the right thing isnt always popular.

The OP was asking about moderate spinning rods. I think that is what he was pointing out. 

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It's not a condescending remark.  It's a statement of conventional wisdom.  Nothing in fishing is set in stone, so when someone makes a recommendation that defies conventional wisdom, I and other members should want to know why.  I apologize if you took offense to my query.  I have some moderate taper spinning rods in 7, 9, and 10' lengths.  Even if they were shorter, I would not be comfortable using them for the baits mentioned.  Those are for live bait presentations, as I mentioned above.

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@J Francho "...just noting that it's an odd and out of place recommendation.  Do you really use a moderate spinning rig for these?"

This seems rather condescending. Questioning my validity as a fisherman off of an already odd question seems rather rude to me. Im just trying to help. And for newer fishermen the more complicated things are, regardlesd of efficiency, leads to improper technique and execution. Controling an XF tip versus a moderate is more difficult. They have to understand how the bait works before they try a new rod or technique. 

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Uh, you actually said you did not use a spinning rod for this.  It's good you want to help, but please rely on personal experience.

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IMHO, a moderate fast spinning rod is at it's best doing the old timey tube or drop shot drift and dragging thing. Especially with 6-8 lb fluoro leaders, and braid main line. My all time favorite rod for this, is a 7' M Berkley Lightning Rod Shock...it's def. what I would call "Mod. Fast". I have dragged tubes and dropshot rigs all over the area lakes with everything from St Croix L.T.B.'s/Avid's, down to that lowly LR Shock. And I swear, with that bouncy tip, that gets into  a good back bone about 3/4 of the way down the rod has been the best rod I have ever used for this. I feel just as much of the bottom as with the higher priced rods, and I lose far far less fish on that rod. With braid, and a stiffer rod, you would think you would get better hook ups dragging, especially since I like to really really long line behind the boat.

 

But the opposite is true. I think the softer rod lets them inhale the bait better. And then when they start acting a fool next to the boat, that softer rod helps too.

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I have a St. Croix 5'6" Medium, Moderate, use it and love it from my kayak or canoe, all finesse applications. A short rod can be a real asset for up close fishing. No, for long casts, I'd want a longer rod. There are no 5'6" QBs in the NFL and there is a reason for that, too. Ha!

 

I wanted to add that if you move away to a rod that loads up a little quicker and deeper, the lifting point then farther back toward your rod hand, the shorter lever creates a lot of power compared to a longer rod.

 

One well known YouTube instructional angler mentioned that he likes that sort of action (more moderate) because the rod is less likely to straighten out and a big bass jump and shake it off. Makes sense and seems to work for me. And, with my short rods, I have that added pitching and short casting accuracy.

 

Anyway, short = more power shifted to the angler who is essentially on the wrong end of the wrench. One does see a ton of longer and longer rods, even a rule change for the pro bass guys as of last year. In many instances, if you look at the big tackle retailers, peruse a make and model, all they offer will be fast, xtra-fast, few rods shorter than 6'6" or 6'8".

 

Good topic!   Brad

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13 hours ago, ww2farmer said:

IMHO, a moderate fast spinning rod is at it's best doing the old timey tube or drop shot drift and dragging thing. Especially with 6-8 lb fluoro leaders, and braid main line. My all time favorite rod for this, is a 7' M Berkley Lightning Rod Shock...it's def. what I would call "Mod. Fast". I have dragged tubes and dropshot rigs all over the area lakes with everything from St Croix L.T.B.'s/Avid's, down to that lowly LR Shock. And I swear, with that bouncy tip, that gets into  a good back bone about 3/4 of the way down the rod has been the best rod I have ever used for this. I feel just as much of the bottom as with the higher priced rods, and I lose far far less fish on that rod. With braid, and a stiffer rod, you would think you would get better hook ups dragging, especially since I like to really really long line behind the boat.

 

But the opposite is true. I think the softer rod lets them inhale the bait better. And then when they start acting a fool next to the boat, that softer rod helps too.

Are you using a heavier weight?

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10 hours ago, J Francho said:

Are you using a heavier weight?

drop shot = 1/2 oz pencil or tear drop shaped weight

 

tube = 3/8 or 5/16...1/2 oz tubes snag way too much

 

I bump up to 1/2 oz, sometimes even 3/4 when I thread a darter, small beaver, or craw etc...on a football head. Those roll over stuff in the heavier weights better than a tube

 

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As other have said I like this action for tossing shrimp to specks in the marsh, but I have started using a 6’6” Clarus MMF for wacky rigging worm that are nail weighted. I have a lot better hookup percentage than a faster action rod. 

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On March 12, 2018 at 10:35 AM, WRangler506 said:

Ive seen a few spinning rods like the ELite Tech BASS Mod Fast and the St Croix moderate fast, what are these intended for? Only crankbaits?

 

If so, does a standard fast not work good with crankbaits, or the mod Fast is just better?

Ask 100 hundred anglers this question and you may get 10 different answers; but all the answers may be correct for that individual angler and their specific fishing situation or style. I personally think a Moderate Fast Rod is perfect for fishing SquareBills in tight quarters and I also love a Moderate Fast Rod for Sammy style Topwaters when fishing for Smallmouth....and personally I will also throw Spinnerbaits all day long on Moderate Fast Veritas casting rods. I guess personally, I just have more confidence in a fishing rod that's capable of more evenly absorbing the energy of a hook set while also being fast enough but not too fast. But again I'm talking about casting rods, not spinning rods, but if you choose to fish spinning tackle, the principles and qualities of a moderate fast blank are still the same. As for that specific Fenwick Elite Tech Rod, I've heard they are great options for the Smallmouth angler and could be helpful when fishing expansive gravel flats with SquareBills when the wind can make fishing Baitcasters just a pain in the butt. They also stay loaded for longer than a Fast Action will and could do well with certain styles of JerkBait fishing. Anyway, just my 2 cents on a topic that's wildly debated : )

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I usually think of a mod or mod fast spinning rod to be for live bait applications, but also happen to work for baits with treble hooks like crankbaits.

 

I usually use these types of rods for other species.

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I really appreciate all the comments. Ill try using this rod more this season, and get a feel for what I like to use it for. It sounds like the main purpose of this rod would be for treble hook lures, with some other option as well.

 

Should I run mono or braid for this? Im not sure if the mono and the moderate action will make it too slow/spongy feeling. I wouldnt be too concerned but this rod does feel noticably "less fast" than the similar Elite Techs I have in fast and extra fast.

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