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EGbassing

Losing fish on Ned rig

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Just bought my first finesse setup (ML/F Dobyns Fury rod paired with a Pflueger President XT) and the first lure I bought was the ned rig. I've fished with it three times so far, and each time I've hooked two fish. Problem is, I've lost every single fish so far. 6 out of 6 fish have shaken the hook, and I think I'm either doing something wrong, or it's just hard to land a fish on a ned rig. Any advice? It's getting frustrating at this point considering that two of those fish were 3+ pounders.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention that I de-barb my hooks. Never lost many fish on t-rigs, spinnerbaits, etc. doing that before...

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That setup should work, just reel hard and keep pressure on it. Out of curiosity, are you using braid? I seem to have a few more shake loose since using braid myself.  But losing 6 of 6 sounds strange.

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Jigs may be one of the easiest lures to lose fish on. Any slack and that compact weight can be shaken or thrown.

 

As Todd2 said, keep that line tight. Get a good bend in the rod and maintain it. Only thing I can think of, unless those fish were crappie and you were a bit too zealous with them; They don't call them "papermouths" for nothing. :)

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If we can look at this in three parts, it may help.

First, Casting - seems you're able to present the bait effectively.

 So that's good.

Second, the hookset.  Seems there may be some questions here as you're loosing fish.  

  The size of the hook, the type & size of the line, the action of the rod, if the bait is rigged correctly, and finally the power / pressure & technique of the angler - all this contributes to whether or not the hookset is effective - meaning did you sink the steel past the barb ?

Finally, playing & landing the fish.  Some of the previous deals mentioned above play here too.  Line type & size, rod length & action, and finally action of the angler during the 'fight'. 

  

 Going "0" for 6 probably indicates that at least one (or more) of this needs to be changed / or at least modified.

 I'd re-evaluate your line choice, the type & size line you're using, the type & size jig head you're using and finally how you're playing / fighting the fish. 

 

Without knowing any of this or watching you 'lose' bass, I have no way to effectively offer advice. 

I know what works for me but you'd likely benefit the most by figuring this out through trial & error.

That's how most of us bassheads 'get experience' - 

Good Luck

:smiley:

A-Jay

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I know for a fact a lot of anglers use a med. light rod. I tried, but like you. I lost lot of fish. I went to a med. action rod with braid and a leader and land at least 90% of the fish. All I do now when a fish bites is start reeling fast and lift the rod. This works for me, everyone has to figure out what works for them.

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As far as your equipment goes, all I use for my Ned rigs are ML fast rods with 10lb braid, no leader and seldom have problems losing fish. One of the reasons I use braid is because I get better hooksets with no stretch line.

There are a lot of different jigs and plastics that people use that they call Ned rigs. Be sure any hook you have is good and sharp. Points can get rolled over after a snag which can dull the hook and cause you to lose fish. 

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I have noticed that I lose more fish when I feel the bite as opposed to just feeling weight.  I set the hook with a good sharp snap to bury the hook.  I also have noticed that if I keep pressure on the fish so that there is always tension on the rod and line, but not horsing them enough to make them jump, I am able to get most of them in the boat.

 

I only use medium light rods with 6# fluorocarbon line, Gammy 1/0 hooks, on the Midwest finesse jig head.  Using this setup I have caught smallmouth to 4# and largemouth to 7# on the Ned rig.

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The op isn't getting a good hook set that penetrates the hook point past bard.

Reel and firm sweep set should work using the tackle discribed if the drag is set at 2-2 1/2 lbs using a scale. A snap set on a bass moving the opposite direction with light tackle often snaps the line. You do need to make a firm hook set and keep the bass under control without any slack line. If the light wire jig hook point is past the barb the bass can't shake it easily.

Check the jig hook for needle sharp point, sharpen it, it sounds line that is your problem.

Tom 

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I don't seem to have trouble losing fish on Neds.  I use braid with FC or mono leaders.  My favorite Ned rod is a 7' 2" ML/MF walleye rod.  It gets lots of bend, so little errors on my part don't give the fish slack.

 

I've noticed friends of mine losing fish and they usually are doing the lift and crank thing and when cranking, they lose the bend in the rod.  Could that be what you are doing?

 

You are, I assume, using the Ned jig?  Its light wire construction lends itself to good penetration without a lot of force.

 

Interesting thing I have noticed in the last two years, the Neds are not nearly getting the bites they used to.

 

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For ned rigs and tubes with exposed hook I seem to loose more fish on a sharp hard hook set.  Usually in these set ups I usually just reel untill the line is tight and than/sweep the  rod back untill a good bend is in the line. 

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I actually experienced the same thing the other day. Landed 3 out of like 7. Using a kistler helium 3 7 ft ml, 20lb braid to leader.  Zman hooks break really easily btw.  I think it's a hook thing for me. If i decide to keep using the ned, ill find a different jighead. But...it's really not a fun way to fish so...I won't try too hard.

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Maybe I missed it but are you using a real ned rig stuff or a cheaper alternative?

 

I'm not really into spinning combo ned rig fishing but have tried it before. I've only used it a couple times and caught 2 dinks with it. The 2nd dink I didn't even know it was on the line as it was a aquarium sized specimen. Most likely the smallest bass I've ever caught.

 

Read the following article and maybe it'll allow you to figure out what's going wrong.

 

https://zmanfishing.com/cms/chatter/8-most-common-ned-rig-mistakes

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This is the part or angling where athleticism plays a role. Imagine a pro bass angler with 20 different rods lying on the deck, MLs to Hs, long rods and short rods, different lines and presentations. They have to pick them up and be ready, immediately, to fish with the new weapon of choice. It'd be like shooting basketball free throws with a ball that is different sized/weighted, the rim at different heights.

 

For most Ned Rigs, the hook point isn't all that exposed coming out of the plastic and all I can add here is that it is more about snagging the fish (or letting it snag itself) than it is about aggressively driving the hook into the mouth bone/cartilage/tissue.

 

If you get a bite, you have to take up the slack in the line, doing so will let the bass feel the pressure. Usually, if they haven't already turned, they'll turn away from the pressure source and in doing so, the line back to your rod tip will be pulled taut onto one side of its mouth opening or the other. That's the last critical point: it either snags or it doesn't. Of course, they can get hooked earlier, too. 

 

Once snagged, you can then get a bit more aggressive as you need to fully load up your rod, only reeling down to take up line. If you lose the bend in your rod, bass will often shake or jump and get loose.

 

I'm not certain you described how they were getting off?

 

By the way, you are doing great for getting out and getting bit with a new presentation. You are about a quarter inch away from having a big day!

 

Brad

 

 

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35 minutes ago, kenmitch said:

Maybe I missed it but are you using a real ned rig stuff or a cheaper alternative?

 

I'm not really into spinning combo ned rig fishing but have tried it before. I've only used it a couple times and caught 2 dinks with it. The 2nd dink I didn't even know it was on the line as it was a aquarium sized specimen. Most likely the smallest bass I've ever caught.

 

Read the following article and maybe it'll allow you to figure out what's going wrong.

 

https://zmanfishing.com/cms/chatter/8-most-common-ned-rig-mistakes

I'm using the Z-man finesse TRD paired with the Z-man shroomz 1/10 oz. jigheads. I'll read that article as soon as I have time. Thanks.

18 minutes ago, Brad in Texas said:

This is the part or angling where athleticism plays a role. Imagine a pro bass angler with 20 different rods lying on the deck, MLs to Hs, long rods and short rods, different lines and presentations. They have to pick them up and be ready, immediately, to fish with the new weapon of choice. It'd be like shooting basketball free throws with a ball that is different sized/weighted, the rim at different heights.

 

For most Ned Rigs, the hook point isn't all that exposed coming out of the plastic and all I can add here is that it is more about snagging the fish (or letting it snag itself) than it is about aggressively driving the hook into the mouth bone/cartilage/tissue.

 

If you get a bite, you have to take up the slack in the line, doing so will let the bass feel the pressure. Usually, if they haven't already turned, they'll turn away from the pressure source and in doing so, the line back to your rod tip will be pulled taut onto one side of its mouth opening or the other. That's the last critical point: it either snags or it doesn't. Of course, they can get hooked earlier, too. 

 

Once snagged, you can then get a bit more aggressive as you need to fully load up your rod, only reeling down to take up line. If you lose the bend in your rod, bass will often shake or jump and get loose.

 

I'm not certain you described how they were getting off?

 

By the way, you are doing great for getting out and getting bit with a new presentation. You are about a quarter inch away from having a big day!

 

Brad

 

 

Thanks. 5 of them jumped, and the last one just popped off. Never saw him. ;) 

2 hours ago, MickD said:

I don't seem to have trouble losing fish on Neds.  I use braid with FC or mono leaders.  My favorite Ned rod is a 7' 2" ML/MF walleye rod.  It gets lots of bend, so little errors on my part don't give the fish slack.

 

I've noticed friends of mine losing fish and they usually are doing the lift and crank thing and when cranking, they lose the bend in the rod.  Could that be what you are doing?

 

You are, I assume, using the Ned jig?  Its light wire construction lends itself to good penetration without a lot of force.

 

Interesting thing I have noticed in the last two years, the Neds are not nearly getting the bites they used to.

 

Thanks. And yup - Z-man shroomz jig.

2 hours ago, WRB said:

The op isn't getting a good hook set that penetrates the hook point past bard.

Reel and firm sweep set should work using the tackle discribed if the drag is set at 2-2 1/2 lbs using a scale. A snap set on a bass moving the opposite direction with light tackle often snaps the line. You do need to make a firm hook set and keep the bass under control without any slack line. If the light wire jig hook point is past the barb the bass can't shake it easily.

Check the jig hook for needle sharp point, sharpen it, it sounds line that is your problem.

Tom 

Thanks. I forgot to mention that my hooks are barbless. I used to use barbed hooks and I'm afraid I injured a lot of bass with them, so I just started smashing down the barbs with pliers. 

4 hours ago, Todd2 said:

That setup should work, just reel hard and keep pressure on it. Out of curiosity, are you using braid? I seem to have a few more shake loose since using braid myself.  But losing 6 of 6 sounds strange.

Braid to flouro leader.

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8 minutes ago, EGbassing said:

I'm using the Z-man finesse TRD paired with the Z-man shroomz 1/10 oz. jigheads. I'll read that article as soon as I have time. Thanks.

When used correctly you should be good to go. I'm not really into finesse type fishing for the most part. I guess I should give it a try more often. I only really drop to it if I fear the skunk. I fish for fun so the numbers don't really matter to me as long as I'm enjoying my time on the water.

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4 hours ago, A-Jay said:

If we can look at this in three parts, it may help.

First, Casting - seems you're able to present the bait effectively.

 So that's good.

Second, the hookset.  Seems there may be some questions here as you're loosing fish.  

  The size of the hook, the type & size of the line, the action of the rod, if the bait is rigged correctly, and finally the power / pressure & technique of the angler - all this contributes to whether or not the hookset is effective - meaning did you sink the steel past the barb ?

Finally, playing & landing the fish.  Some of the previous deals mentioned above play here too.  Line type & size, rod length & action, and finally action of the angler during the 'fight'. 

  

 Going "0" for 6 probably indicates that at least one (or more) of this needs to be changed / or at least modified.

 I'd re-evaluate your line choice, the type & size line you're using, the type & size jig head you're using and finally how you're playing / fighting the fish. 

 

Without knowing any of this or watching you 'lose' bass, I have no way to effectively offer advice. 

I know what works for me but you'd likely benefit the most by figuring this out through trial & error.

That's how most of us bassheads 'get experience' - 

Good Luck

:smiley:

A-Jay

Thanks. I forgot to mention in the orginal post that I de-barb my hooks for easy removal. I feel like I was actually losing more fish before because I wasn't penetrating past the barb, but it's hard to tell.

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50 minutes ago, EGbassing said:

Thanks. I forgot to mention in the orginal post that I de-barb my hooks for easy removal. I feel like I was actually losing more fish before because I wasn't penetrating past the barb, but it's hard to tell.

OK - With no barb is cool.  Just going to ensure you sink the steel you have well and keep the rod bent.  

Concentrating on 'pulling back into the fish' helps me out; especially when the bass gets close.

Think about applying your pressure in the same direction that the tail is pointing.

Might help you keep the rest of your bites buttoned up.

:smiley:

A-Jay 

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How often do bass swallow a jig into it's gullet where a barbed hook could be injurious to the bass? Removing a barbed hook like a small 1/10 oz jig w/ size 1 or 2 light wire hook is easy anywhere in the mouth without causing serious injury, use needle nose pliers.

Otherwise enjoy loosing a high % of jig hooked bass using barbless jig hooks. Bass jump and head shake to get rid of the hook and you are making it a lot easier with barbless jig hooks.

Tom

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32 minutes ago, WRB said:

Bass jump and head shake to get rid of the hook

And here all these years I thought it was because they can't growl.

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I lost a few fish on the ned early on because I had my drag set too tight and the light wire hook bent.  I think a couple of these fish my have been pretty big pike/muskies though too and they have jaws made of iron.  I've backed off on the drag and started using lighter tackle which seems to help.

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The Z-man hooks are not bad, but they do dull easily.  I fish them de-barbed and still have a very resectable landing ratio. 

 

RiverRock now sells Ned heads with a true thin-wire #2, #4, and #6 hooks.  I believe Siebert Outdoors now also offers a thin-wire #2 option.  The smaller hooks tend to get very well wedged inside the bass's mouth rather then on the lip where they shake or rip out.  

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6 hours ago, WRB said:

How often do bass swallow a jig into it's gullet where a barbed hook could be injurious to the bass? Removing a barbed hook like a small 1/10 oz jig w/ size 1 or 2 light wire hook is easy anywhere in the mouth without causing serious injury, use needle nose pliers.

Otherwise enjoy loosing a high % of jig hooked bass using barbless jig hooks. Bass jump and head shake to get rid of the hook and you are making it a lot easier with barbless jig hooks.

Tom

Yeah. I might try a barbed one and see how hard it is to remove next time I'm out.

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6 hours ago, WRB said:

How often do bass swallow a jig into it's gullet where a barbed hook could be injurious to the bass? Removing a barbed hook like a small 1/10 oz jig w/ size 1 or 2 light wire hook is easy anywhere in the mouth without causing serious injury, use needle nose pliers.

Otherwise enjoy loosing a high % of jig hooked bass using barbless jig hooks. Bass jump and head shake to get rid of the hook and you are making it a lot easier with barbless jig hooks.

Tom

I agree! Especially with a mushroom jig like a Ned Rig where all the weight is in one area at the head. When he jumps he’s gonna shake that lead head around. Barbless hooks are going to fail a high % of the time. 

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Pinching the barbs down is your problem plain and simple. The man who the rig is named after does the same and he'd be the first to tell you that you will lose a lot of fish like that as well as catching a lot. I can't remember is the article was in Bass Master or In-Fisherman but Ned talks about the large number of fish he loses because he pinches the barb down on a small size hook.

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Get you some Morel heads from @Siebert Outdoors instead of the Z-man heads. Better hooks and the keepers won't break off. I pinch the barbs on the hooks for guide trips, for the safety of the fish and my clients (and myself). The fish do toss them, but it's hard to tell if it's because of the pinched barb or the inexperience of the fishermen fighting them. Better hooks and not pinching your barbs will keep a lot more fish pinned though. 

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