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fishraptor

Fighting (landing) fish / Finesse VS Generic Med/Hvy

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I have to admit this one has been bugging me for quite a while considering I fish a lot of true finesse drop shot rods w/10braid w/10 floro leader but have noticed that MANY guys in the league I just joined and fished in 2018 season use the common typical  med/hvy rods.  I noticed that many of them just flip the Bass into the boat without using a net, except for the monsters obviously.  I am limited to doing this on a true finesse rod, if I tried to flip a 4+ pound bass onto the deck In my estimation I would be taking a chance on breaking the rod (maybe this is just my "greeness".  Anyway the question is: 

Finesse guy using a true finesse rod NRS 842 with 10# line VS other guy using med/hvy rod  with 15# plus

 

 

Do you think a guy with a true finesse rod has more or less of a better chance of landing the "same size" fish as another using a heavier rod with heavier line.  Obviously we'll stay "light weeds to open water" as heavy weeds would obviously give the edge to heavier line rigging. 

 

My thoughts are a Bass, pretty much any size would have a harder time coming off a finesse application (using the analogy of fighting your way out of a paper bag) then the heavier set up.  The guy with the heavier obviously can haul that same fish in faster without fear of line breakage but "tearing the hook loose" would give the edge to the finesse rigging in my opinion.   

 

I really really do not know who would have the advantage. My opinion is the finesse rigging would be harder to come off of because of the "whippieness" of the rod and hence have an advantage.

 

Obviously big "slobs" are not included in this discussion or heavy weeds and such.    I am looking forward to hearing everyones views/opinions and any hard facts that they might know.  

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I don't know about an advantage, but I do prefer to catch my fish on lighter rigs. For me it's the 'battle' that gives fishing the excitement. Flipping a 8# bass into the boat on a heavy-rig isn't the same as fighting a 4-5# bass on a UL rig with only 4# line. Knowing that if you do it wrong, s/he's going to snap your line makes it worth the time easing it into your boat.

 

That's just me, so I do my DS rigs on even lighter gear than most. 8# line on a light-fast rod most of the time, but I have done DS with my UL rig occasionally. That's when the fun starts.

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11 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

I don't know about an advantage, but I do prefer to catch my fish on lighter rigs. For me it's the 'battle' that gives fishing the excitement. Flipping a 8# bass into the boat on a heavy-rig isn't the same as fighting a 4-5# bass on a UL rig with only 4# line. Knowing that if you do it wrong, s/he's going to snap your line makes it worth the time easing it into your boat.

 

That's just me, so I do my DS rigs on even lighter gear than most. 8# line on a light-fast rod most of the time, but I have done DS with my UL rig occasionally. That's when the fun starts.

 

Totally agree but going with 4# as you say, now that is taking it to the very limit. I actually am setting up an ultra light spinning setup with 7# Sunline Sniper floro (I'm not that brave to any lower just yet). This will be for super clear open water.  enjoyed your reply.      

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I'll go with less chance. The longer the fish stays in the water, the greater the chance you might lose it for a variety of reasons. If you can simply overpower a fish, your odds go up. Lots of variables not factored in though like can you get bit on heavier gear to the same degree, etc.

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Lost most fish do to poor net techniques than flipping smaller ones in....That said, I do not flip fish on trebles 

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3 hours ago, fishraptor said:

I have to admit this one has been bugging me for quite a while considering I fish a lot of true finesse drop shot rods w/10braid w/10 floro leader but have noticed that MANY guys in the league I just joined and fished in 2018 season use the common typical  med/hvy rods.  I noticed that many of them just flip the Bass into the boat without using a net, except for the monsters obviously.  I am limited to doing this on a true finesse rod, if I tried to flip a 4+ pound bass onto the deck In my estimation I would be taking a chance on breaking the rod (maybe this is just my "greeness".  Anyway the question is: 

Finesse guy using a true finesse rod NRS 842 with 10# line VS other guy using med/hvy rod  with 15# plus

 

 

Do you think a guy with a true finesse rod has more or less of a better chance of landing the "same size" fish as another using a heavier rod with heavier line.  Obviously we'll stay "light weeds to open water" as heavy weeds would obviously give the edge to heavier line rigging. 

 

My thoughts are a Bass, pretty much any size would have a harder time coming off a finesse application (using the analogy of fighting your way out of a paper bag) then the heavier set up.  The guy with the heavier obviously can haul that same fish in faster without fear of line breakage but "tearing the hook loose" would give the edge to the finesse rigging in my opinion.   

 

I really really do not know who would have the advantage. My opinion is the finesse rigging would be harder to come off of because of the "whippieness" of the rod and hence have an advantage.

 

Obviously big "slobs" are not included in this discussion or heavy weeds and such.    I am looking forward to hearing everyones views/opinions and any hard facts that they might know.  

Gear selection, whether it be heavy , light or somewhere in between, is considered 'effective' when it allows the proper presentation, imparts an action that solicits a strike, can set the hook, and then will fight / play the fish successfully to the boat.

 IMO - the rod & reel is never part of the actually landing of the fish.  

Small(er) bass caught (without trebles) meet my thumb and everything else goes in the net.

While I do not fish derbies - my objective is the same; put the ones I catch in the boat - without getting a hook in the hand (which even in a derby can cost valuable time performing an extraction). 

   So all that said, when considering Boat flipping vs Thumbing (landing by hand) vs Net use; a case can be made to where the is a certain amount of risk / lost fish using each method.  

I do fish an assortment of tackle types & presentation, including quite a bit of gear commonly considered 'light', IME a net offers me the highest & safest level of 'effectiveness'.

YMMV

:smiley:

A-Jay

590697a38ba9e_NetJob.thumb.png.812857e4620fc04770c3d867659984ed.png

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Hmm...

 

My main smallmouth rod for live bait is a G. Loomis PR844S/ Stella 2500/ Yo-Zuri Hybrid #4.

The rod is powerful, the reel incorporates the PERFECT drag and the line is strong. but stealthy.

Both of the fish in my avatar were caught on this rig and a #8 Gamakatsu Octopus Circle Hook.

 

:santa-107:

 

 

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I do a lot of both types of fishing.  I lose some fish with spinnerbaits, jigs and worms probably from "horsing" them in.  I rarely lose a fish on my finesse rods using 6# fluorocarbon and medium light rods.   

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I fish a ml-f and m-xf spinning rod as well as a MH-F and a Mh-xf casting rod. Everything from 6 - 50lb line, braid,  fluorocarbon, and most recently trying straight mono. 

 

The right tool for the right job. Pairing the technique to the proper set up is the key as is fighting the fish properly (keeping the rod loaded and using your drag) , a fast netting, unhooking, and a quick release. Any fish I have ever lost is my own fault, not the equipment. I have used the wrong equipment in the wrong situation and that has caused more lost fish than anything else. I have learned from those mistakes.

 

I think it really comes down to adapting to the equipment and techniques you are using. 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Jig Man said:

I do a lot of both types of fishing.  I lose some fish with spinnerbaits, jigs and worms probably from "horsing" them in.  I rarely lose a fish on my finesse rods using 6# fluorocarbon and medium light rods.   

 

JiG man, thats what I'm kinda getting at.  As much as I partially agree with "Team9Nines" philosophy, I just can't help but think that all else being equal it would be harder to "pull off" on a true finesse rod. ie. Can't rip/tear a hook whan you can't get anyleverage.  Once again I wish to reiterate that in heavy grass, or maybe lots of big rocks and such, you get my point, then speed would most likely be beneficial.  I am surprised I did not get more feedback on this topic, either your experiences showed you you had or had not better luck regarding the two presentations.  Guess I'll just have to keep a "mental" scorecard and see how things go. I thought the answer be be more decisive/ clear cut. Thanks for your post.  

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12 hours ago, LCG said:

I fish a ml-f and m-xf spinning rod as well as a MH-F and a Mh-xf casting rod. Everything from 6 - 50lb line, braid,  fluorocarbon, and most recently trying straight mono. 

 

The right tool for the right job. Pairing the technique to the proper set up is the key as is fighting the fish properly (keeping the rod loaded and using your drag) , a fast netting, unhooking, and a quick release. Any fish I have ever lost is my own fault, not the equipment. I have used the wrong equipment in the wrong situation and that has caused more lost fish than anything else. I have learned from those mistakes.

 

I think it really comes down to adapting to the equipment and techniques you are using. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the post LCG......    I guess the issue that I am trying to stress is:

 

If you "lightly" hook a fish, (and that happens more frequently than we like)  say a 2 to 4 pounder in open water..... and you had to "bet the farm"...

 

What would you rather have in your hand:

 

a true finesse rod 7' 1/8 to 3/8 oz, 6 to 12# rating, using  8# test or a Med/heavy, 1/2 to 7/8oz, 8 to 15# rating using 15# test....

 

I'm going with the whippy finesse rod.......  (if the drag is set right and you play him right in my eyes you have more advantage or not ripping that hook out).   BUT, since I am "somewhat" green and have only been fishing for a handful of years I figured I'd canvas the guys with lots of experience and see if their was a decisive sway one way or the other but to my surprise it is not cut and dry. 

 

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Just to add another dimension here that might not have been discussed, it depends a lot on eyesight. My eyes, at age 66, aren't what they used to be, so it is hard for me to tell how a fish is hooked as it approaches me in either my kayak or canoe . . . meaning I am pretty danged close to them.

 

But, often you'll see that professional anglers will comment on film whether the fish is well hooked or just barely hanging on. If it is hooked well, they will often sling them in; if they are just barely hooked, the anglers play the fish longer to tire them out, get down and lip them.

 

So, regardless of the equipment, whether one is using finesse or power gear, it's nice to get a heads up, visually, to know and decide how to get it in the boat.

 

I eliminate the "skiing" a bass back to the boat at full speed. There, the fish are moving so fast being literally dragged across the water, I can't imagine it is easy to tell how they are hooked most of the time. I see this as the far end of the philosophy already stated: The less time in the water, the less possibilities of the fish coming off. Not my style but I can see its application.

 

Brad

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9 hours ago, fishraptor said:

to my surprise it is not cut and dry

I think it comes down to experience vs hypothetical. A drop shot rig is what I would use in your scenario of open water. I would also use a medium light rod. This offers the best chance of getting solid hook sets without ripping the hook out, on a drop shot hook. But the reverse is true as well. I have pulled more than a few 4-5lb smallmouth bass out using a Texas rigged creature bait with a EWG hook and a medium heavy rod without ripping hooks out. The first step to catching a fish is a good hook set period. The rod I would use is dictated by the technique I am using and the cover. 

 

Also there is about a hundred different things that can play into losing a fish than just ripping a hook out. 

 

I used a medium light rod for a few years of fishing and had pretty good luck until I hooked into a big one and didn't have the backbone to pull him away from some downed trees. The fish ended up wrapped around a branch and broke my 8lb line. I learned a lesson that day. Another time I had a good size one on when he dove deep and I assume cut me off on some rocks, same set up. Texas rig a creature bait on an ewg hook with 30lb braid to a 15lb + leader using a more solid rod and both of those situations would not have happened. But maybe they wouldn't have bit the creature bait. Who knows. 

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It comes down to one thing, the feel. I fish at about 1/3 of whatever is recommended almost always, if not 1/4.  You can tell when something’s going to break. At that point, don’t break it. It just comes down to that. The way I assess everything is simple, just hook a hook onto something like a fence, then raise the tip of the rod. Pull up until the drag slips or the rod is going to break or the line is going to break. Set the drag so it slips without breaking the rod, line or hook. You’ll get used to it. Even with new lighter rods. Landing the fish it the same thing, except it’s slippery and bouncing around. The problem for me is never landing the fish, it’s getting bit and setting the hook! That’s the hard part.

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