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Jake51823

Fluoro or Mono for baitcaster setup?

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15 hours ago, Jake51823 said:

What co poly do you use? I’ve heard good things about yo Zuri and sufix advance. 

I started to use KastKing Copolymer. Price is very reasonable. From Ebay or Amazon.

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Have gone back to just old Big Game and P-line.  LOVE IT.......why did I ever....ever go through the nightmares of fluro for a mainline.  Just me....but I haven't lost a fish to a broken line in quite some time now.

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I've been using 10# Sufix Advance on a baitcaster for a couple months now and really like it. Sensitivity is important to me too. This is a bottom contact rod and I like to feel every tick thump bump crack rock log leaf FISH! I tried several brands of nylon and it lacked this sensitivity for me. I've been trying lots of different fluorocarbons over the past several years because it has better sensitivity for me but not great abrasion resistance in my shallow rocky river. Even Seaguar Abrazx falls short, at least in 10# test.

 

So far Sufix Advance in 10# has been very sensitive, handles well and is as abrasion resistant as any fluoro or nylon line I've tried except Gamma Edge fluorocarbon. But at $26/100 yards Gamma Edge is even MORE expensive than Seaguar Tatsu!

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What rod you going to be using with this setup.

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Do any of the posters who advocate that FC is more sensitive than mono have any data to confirm this belief?

 

The only hard data comparing the two that I have seen are density comparisons that show mono has a density about the same as water and FC about 50% more.  Which confirms that mono is better for most surface lure fishing.

 

Since there is no objective test (at least I've never seen one) for sensitivity (how does one measure sensitivity?), what attribute of FC would lead one to believe it is more sensitive?  Stretch?  I think that has been debunked by many tests indicating there is little if any difference.  

 

Just asking.  Just trying to learn.  I note an appropriate quote above in red.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Allen Der said:

On a bait caster is really bad advice

I don’t know why people say this. It’s easier than mono or fluoro.

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16 hours ago, CrankFate said:

I don’t know why people say this. It’s easier than mono or fluoro.

It's the thin line diameter that's the concern, I believe. From what I read, thin braid can dig into the spool on baitcasters. By all other accounts though, it should(?) cast better than heavier braid, and you can fit more of it onto the spool. I sized up to 40lb braid and I think it casts just fine, and I've had no issues with it digging into the spool.

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On 6/11/2019 at 2:24 AM, NorthernBasser said:

You plan on fishing any top water? If so, rule fluoro out. 

You can toss topwater on rigs with fluorocarbon if you're not letting baits sit for a half minute between twitches. I do it all the time with faster topwaters. It's not leadcore line. It just sinks a tiny bit and comes right back up to the surface with every twitch.

On 6/10/2019 at 2:29 PM, Jake51823 said:

Hey all, I can’t decide whether to go with fluorocarbon or monofilament for my baitcaster setup. Sensitivity is really important to me, I like to feel everything and be able to set my hook once I feel something. Which leads me more towards fluorocarbon but all of them that I have tried seem to break off or coil very easily. I heard Tatsu was pretty good yet to try it though. Whereas mono I never really had an issue. Any thoughts or suggestions and what do you y’all use? Also never really been a braid guy, not my favorite. 

Fluorocarbon burns and weakens really easily if the knot is not well-lubed with spit and tightened down slowly. There's no need to jump to Tatsu. Give Invisx another try with some line conditioner on it, and slow down with those knots. 

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2 hours ago, BassThumb said:

You can toss topwater on rigs with fluorocarbon if you're not letting baits sit for a half minute between twitches. I do it all the time with faster topwaters. It's not leadcore line. It just sinks a tiny bit and comes right back up to the surface with every twitch.

Fluorocarbon burns and weakens really easily if the knot is not well-lubed with spit and tightened down slowly. There's no need to jump to Tatsu. Give Invisx another try with some line conditioner on it, and slow down with those knots. 

I’ll give it another try, I did like how the feel of it and how you can hardly see it. 

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You'll never see "hard data" on sensitivity because sensitivity is subjective.

 

Fluorocarbon is a tool. I feel it transmits vibration and slack line bites better than nylon monofilament line, so I use it. Have you ever felt a bite while fixing a backlash? It's neat.

 

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I tried going straight FC a couple years back, but I didn't like the line memory.  I used a couple different brands, I think the Seaguar I used was the best, but it still had more memory than I liked.  I ended up going back to braid, and using a FC leader when the water is clear.  I only have 1 rod that still has Seaguar FC on it at the moment, and when its time to change that line out, I'll probably swap it back to braid as well.

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10 hours ago, bwjay said:

It's the thin line diameter that's the concern, I believe. From what I read, thin braid can dig into the spool on baitcasters. By all other accounts though, it should(?) cast better than heavier braid, and you can fit more of it onto the spool. I sized up to 40lb braid and I think it casts just fine, and I've had no issues with it digging into the spool.

It doesn’t dig in. Maybe decades ago, but spectra and dynerma are drastically improved now. It literally never digs in.

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25 minutes ago, CrankFate said:

It doesn’t dig in. Maybe decades ago, but spectra and dynerma are drastically improved now. It literally never digs in.

Welp, that's the only reason why I thought people recommended against light braid (10-20lbs).

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On 6/12/2019 at 5:26 PM, MickD said:

Do any of the posters who advocate that FC is more sensitive than mono have any data to confirm this belief?

Nope, no hard data. All I have is what my brain tells me my hands are feeling. I've fished the same rod, reel and jig in the same spot on a river with the same current flow. I know I feel the bottom more distinctly with fluorocarbon line than I do with nylon monofilament, but not as distinctly as I do with braid.

 

Good enough for me.

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Quote from Saving Private Ryan...

 

"What I mean, sir, is if you was to put me with this here Sniper FC 10# anywhere up to and including 50 yds from Miss Bass... with a clean line of sight... well, pack your bags, boys. War's over."    ***edits in bold***

 

I have the feel and confidence in it, so that's what gets spooled.

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On 6/12/2019 at 4:26 PM, MickD said:

Do any of the posters who advocate that FC is more sensitive than mono have any data to confirm this belief?

 

 

 

 

     The only thing I can add here is that with bottom contact baits where in my opinion and a few others that post here. Sensitivity is most important in bottom contact baits! Fluorocarbon line sinks. Monofilament floats. This difference has a tendency to create more of a bow in the line with mono then fluoro. Not having that bow in the line gives you more direct contact to your bait resulting in better sensitivity. I feel that not having that "bow" also can make for better hook sets especially when you have more line out.

     Here is another observation/opinion of mine and I will probably be getting the popcorn eaters out in force with this one. Both fluoro and mono stretch that is pretty much universally agreed upon. My add is this. I think that they stretch differently. Mono is a more uniform stretch being that it stretches sooner as tension is added then fluorocarbon does. I also think mono recovers from being stretched/strained much better then fluoro does. 

     For what it is worth I use pretty much top quality mono and fluoro line (Seagar Invisx and Tatsu, Berkely XL and Sunline Defier) are currently my favorite flavors. 

 

     Let the naysayers and other feel free to chime in! Fire up the popcorn popper.

Fishingmickey

15 hours ago, CrankFate said:

It doesn’t dig in. Maybe decades ago, but spectra and dynerma are drastically improved now. It literally never digs in.

Horse hockey! I'm not talking decades ago BBBF (before braid before fluoro). I'm talking last weekend.

     It does dig in on bait casters. Especially after you have been using straight 30# braid and tried to break it off. Spinning rods I don't have much experience with using braid.

FM

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Regarding floating mono.  Mono does not float since its specific gravity is essentially the same as fresh water.  Will float in salt.  But possibly the fact that it doesn't sink gives FC a "sensitivity" advantage while fishing sinking lures.  Good comments.  thx

2 hours ago, Fishingmickey said:

using straight 30# braid

The reason for less of a problem now than earlier is that braids are generally round now, used to be flat, and edge would slide under.  Trying cut a full spool of braid off. . . not fun.  I don't use braid any lighter than 30#, usually 40.  I think it handles better, casts more like 12 pound mono, very little chance (I've not had it happen) of digging in.

 

Do you know what line you had dig in?

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5 minutes ago, MickD said:

Regarding floating mono.  Mono does not float since its specific gravity is essentially the same as fresh water.  Will float in salt.  But possibly the fact that it doesn't sink gives FC a "sensitivity" advantage while fishing sinking lures.  Good comments.  thx

The reason for less of a problem now than earlier is that braids are generally round now, used to be flat, and edge would slide under.  Trying cut a full spool of braid off. . . not fun.  I don't use braid any lighter than 30#, usually 40.  I think it handles better, casts more like 12 pound mono, very little chance (I've not had it happen) of digging in.

 

Do you know what line you had dig in?

Yes Power pro 30#. I was using straight braid and got hung up in about 17' of water. It was windy and I was getting blown around in my kayak and cranked the drag down and thumbing the spool trying to get it to break. It was dug in the spool pretty good. I ended up pulling off about fifty yards of line before I got past the "dig-in's". 

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I want some popcorn.

 

Mono does seem to recover from stretch better than fluoro. Mono also handles mishaps and abuse better. The pros say to respool fluoro if you backlash, but their job is to sell fluoro so who knows. They've been misleading the public regarding fluoro and stretch for years.

 

Some fluoro stretches a lot. Some fluoro does not. I really, really like Shooter but $35 a spool does not spark joy. 15 lb. Invizx is probably the best overall fluoro on the market (imo) when you combine performance and price. It is manageable without conditioner and does not stretch as much as the lower lb. tests.

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6 hours ago, Fishingmickey said:

     The only thing I can add here is that with bottom contact baits where in my opinion and a few others that post here. Sensitivity is most important in bottom contact baits! Fluorocarbon line sinks. Monofilament floats. This difference has a tendency to create more of a bow in the line with mono then fluoro. Not having that bow in the line gives you more direct contact to your bait resulting in better sensitivity. I feel that not having that "bow" also can make for better hook sets especially when you have more line out.

     Here is another observation/opinion of mine and I will probably be getting the popcorn eaters out in force with this one. Both fluoro and mono stretch that is pretty much universally agreed upon. My add is this. I think that they stretch differently. Mono is a more uniform stretch being that it stretches sooner as tension is added then fluorocarbon does. I also think mono recovers from being stretched/strained much better then fluoro does. 

     For what it is worth I use pretty much top quality mono and fluoro line (Seagar Invisx and Tatsu, Berkely XL and Sunline Defier) are currently my favorite flavors. 

 

     Let the naysayers and other feel free to chime in! Fire up the popcorn popper.

Fishingmickey

Horse hockey! I'm not talking decades ago BBBF (before braid before fluoro). I'm talking last weekend.

     It does dig in on bait casters. Especially after you have been using straight 30# braid and tried to break it off. Spinning rods I don't have much experience with using braid.

FM

You just have to spool on it tight. I’ve never seen dig in on any reel fishing from 6lb braid to 50lb braid. If you spool it on at 2lbs of pressure or less and fish 5lbs or more drag, it might dig in, but spooled at 4-5lbs pressure it won’t dig in. I wish I could spool up your reel for you and bring you over to the light side of the force.

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13 hours ago, CrankFate said:

You just have to spool on it tight.

So you spool it on tight, then do a bunch of casts without catching fish.  How tightly is it being spooled on?  Tightly enough to prevent digging in?  

 

I think you'll find a lot of fishermen, myself included, who have had braid dig in.  Not so much now as in the past, but it seems logical that there would be less of a problem with the heavier pound tests than the lighter pound tests.

 

I'll keep it above 30 on my casting outfits.  I see no advantage to going lower, and depending on the line, there can be disadvantages.  I may have less trouble than most since I keep my drags lower than most probably do.  I don't do a lot of fishing where horsing one out of cover is needed.  It also seems logical that the best line for that would be a heavy pound test.

 

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27 minutes ago, MickD said:

 

I think you'll find a lot of fishermen, myself included, who have had braid dig in.

   True. 40 lb. j-braid, 50 lb, 832, 40 lb. performance braid, and a PowerPro that I forgot the poundage.

 

On 6/13/2019 at 8:38 PM, CrankFate said:

It doesn’t dig in. Maybe decades ago, but spectra and dynerma are drastically improved now. It literally never digs in.

   Sooooooo wrong! So, so, so wrong! That is literally 180 degrees from reality.

 

14 hours ago, CrankFate said:

 If you spool it on at 2lbs of pressure or less and fish 5lbs or more drag, it might dig in, but spooled at 4-5lbs pressure it won’t dig in.

  Correct .... up to a point. But make six long casts, and how much tension is there on the line? Then you get a biggie on the line, and  ... voila! ... the line digs in like a Case backhoe.

   And if you think you can put 4-5 lbs. pressure on the retrieve with a lure, I'd like to see that lure! Same with your fingers. I run my line through my fingers on the retrieve, and I'd have to see what would happen if I tried to put 4-5 lb. pressure on the line with my fingers!  Bye-bye, flesh!

 

  

14 hours ago, CrankFate said:

 I wish I could spool up your reel for you and bring you over to the light side of the force.

   The Dark Side has cookies!  😁😂😂😂    jj

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On 6/10/2019 at 3:29 PM, Jake51823 said:

luorocarbon but all of them that I have tried seem to break off or coil very easily.

Same for me.  I've tried a lot of them, not Tatsu, not going to pay that much for a type of line (FC) that in every other brand has resulted in disappointment.  It's as you say, fragile on taking out backlashes, a few of which are inevitable since it doesn't cast that well.  If not braid just go mono.  I have one casting rod still with FC, have avoided disaster so far, but will be changing to braid or mono when the FC gives up.

On 6/10/2019 at 3:29 PM, Jake51823 said:

luorocarbon but all of them that I have tried seem to break off or coil very easily.

Same for me.  I've tried a lot of them, not Tatsu, not going to pay that much for a type of line (FC) that in every other brand has resulted in disappointment.  It's as you say, fragile on taking out backlashes, a few of which are inevitable since it doesn't cast that well.  If not braid just go mono.  I have one casting rod still with FC, have avoided disaster so far, but will be changing to braid or mono when the FC gives up.

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For a good while after being burned repeatedly by FC, I wrote it off.

Fished braid & Mono exclusively for several years, even caught a few.

As improvements were made and more and more experienced, successful anglers reported better results with FC, I gave it another try.  Currently my FC use is relegated to rigs that present horizontal moving baits, it's been good.

I prefer it over braid & a leader for those applications.

But that's where it ends for me.

As for FC needing 'extra' care as in line conditioner and when correcting over runs; I use line conditioner on all my lines.  I feel it improves casting distance when I need it.  And if I was over spinning my reels so much that I needed special line to deal with it - I'd improve my technique rather than complain about the line.

Any line will fail after repeatedly being put through that deal.

A-Jay

 

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I admit there are a lot of better baitcasters than I am, and if I were more skilled I probably would try FC again, especially where I needed a sinking line.  

 

Last year I thought I'd try spybaits, so I rigged up my 9 foot slow action (very expensive North Forks blank which I won at a gathering) steelhead/salmon rod that is perfect for long casts with light lures.  I rigged it with 4 pound FC, (as the experts recommend for spybaits-has to be light so not to affect the action of the spybait) major brand, on a Stradic 4000.  Could cast a mile with it, for about half an hour.  Line was simply too fragile.  So I put on a .006 in diameter braid with a leader (FG knot-rod has micros).  Still casts a mile, I don't think the line is impairing the action of the spybait, and it has solved the FC problem.  Theoretically it won't sink as fast, but it also won't be broken off so fast.  

 

AJ, any experience to relate that might help me fish spybaits?

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