Master Bait'r

Target Employee: "Sir, can I help you?" OP: "No, I'm fine! Go away!" TE: "Well sir... What are you doing?" OP: "I'm looking for the bread aisle! What does it look like I'm doing?!??" TE: "Sir, all the aisles have labeled signs and if you don't stop throwing crankbaits in the store I'm going to have to ask you to leave"

Hey anytime, I just don't want you to be wasting your time out there. Even when you have all the right stuff frogging can still be frustrating so every dimension of preparation you take out, it makes it exponentially more difficult on you as an angler to try to make work! Horny toads and such- it will work slightly better, but the hooksets may still be problematic (especially with double toad hooks and such) and the heavy cover will still absolutely annihilate the line. It's the stretch in your line that will not transfer energy for ideal hooksets, and once they're in there mono in that diameter simply won't handle the cover with any regularity or predictability in a positive sense. It's not just about getting the bait out there to do its thing, it's about everything that happens once a fish hits it, especially with real weed cover in the equation. In this case I'd have to say I would not throw anything at or over heavy cover or pads in general with 10lb mono since my trust level in being able to land the fish I may hook would be very low. If you want to throw horny toads in open water, that may work but again hook sets may not happen the way you'd like because of blank flex and line stretch. I'd really recommend a more stout rod and braid for zero stretch and increased durability in presentations like that. It's not that they will *never* work, but that by not taking all factors into account, you reduce your chances of boating that fish you really want to catch. I personally use braid for even my light finesse baits and t-rigs since you feel a lot more and the hooksets are far more consistently good. I'd keep mono for treble baits and vibrating cranks, etc where the line stretch is desirable and would honestly not try to use it for heavy cover presentations at all where it is a massive liability. I hope that helped and was not too babbly. Sometimes I over complicate when I try to explain myself.

Nope, not even close. I generally use a MHXF and 30lb braid but that's the absolute minimum I'd use for frogs, jigs and weed cover in general - and even then I mostly use smaller profile frogs. With a Medium/Fast and 10lb mono (biggest thing is the line stretch he's getting out of that though) there is no way you're going to walk that full size frog- and if you can't walk the frog there's no way in aych-eeh-double-hockey-sticks both those hooks are getting sent home on that backbone and line stretch when something does nail it- and beyond even that is the slim to none likelihood that the fish won't utterly obliterate that mono on the first lily pad stem should a miracle occur and a hook find it's way through lip somehow. Sorry for trying to be helpful though, my mistake. I'll keep my common sense to myself next time. I mean it's a great setup for other treble baits and such, just not for walking frogs and heavy cover. Would you have the guy out there all day wasting his time and money? Use that setup for what it's set up for, and froggin' simply isn't it. The weeds are extremely unforgiving and frogging heavy cover requires consideration of all factors. Trust me, I really do wish there was another way around that haha

Dayum MObigbass... Those are some trough bosses right there! Nice work man!

There's your problem right there. You're trying to walk a frog with a setup that is not supposed to be throwing anywhere near that size nor does it have the backbone to set the hook. Most people throwing frogs are AT MINIMUM a MH/Fast or XFast rod and more commonly a Heavy Extra Fast rod and a minimum of 30-40lb braid (more commonly 50-65lb braid!) for it's zero stretch, durability in heavy cover and ability to drive home double hooks as well as bounce a lure like you'll need to make it walk. You could throw that thing all day and I can pretty much guarantee you'll never set the frog hooks with it even if you do manage to get it to walk somehow. I'd recommend using another topwater bait or getting a heavier combo to handle the big baits like that.

If you spread that $50 over the lifetime of the reel, I think you'll find that the price difference really is negligible... At least that's how I rationalize all my silly gear expenditures anyways.

Also the KLT mouse- walks like a dream with very little effort. One of the better walking and fish-producing hollow bodied baits I've used. Also OP it really depends on your setup. If you've got a MHXF rod and 30lb braid, different sized frogs and baits will walk better than if you've got a HXF & 55lb on the reel. You are going to have to try different stuff, different "bounce" or cadence and different levels of force with your baits and really learn each of them because they are all different. You may not even have a setup that allows you to walk a frog- too moderate of a rod, thin mono or both and it'll be too soft and the bait will just porpoise like you've described. So it really depends on a lot of things to be honest. You really haven't given us a ton of information to go with.

Oh, agreed- if you spent the money it's only "worth it" if you're catching fish with it. As afraid as I am to break my NRX there's no way I'm leaving it home haha

Agreed, that card is nice to have but I'm still afraid if knocking it into the water or having it stolen. I keep a bobber in my kit just in case... I'd come back and dive for it!

Yes absolutely! I finally ponied up and put together a similar combo this year and although I use it every time I'm out I am constantly aware of it. I am always concerned about something happening. It's too much to invest to not use, but for me it's impossible to forget about.

The peoria carp guys come to mind haha... Am I allowed to use waterskis and a trident?

Fish farts are the best. And to think- I used to fish for the bite! What a fool I was. Farts are where it's at, man.

They really are the duct tape of plastics. Also I like them because they're tough. I try really hard to keep plastics out of fish bellies and so I really like that they almost never get torn clean off the hook.

This is how I've always thought about it. I recently broke a tip off setting a hook on a nice rod, and although I don't recall doing something that damaged it, I have to assume it's my fault. If it was a defect, it would have broken long before.

While there will always be someone with nicer gear than you, I don't think a $180 combo is anything to scoff at either! Besides... It's the indian, not the arrow

There is not one insult in there Hootie. If that honestly insults you I don't know what to say!

Heh. Defensiveness is a very telling trait! I never asked to be banned, I said if a mod thinks I've crossed a line I'm ok with facing a punishment for it.

By assuming that "since it came from the earth it's harmless" you could also throw your used oil in a river after you change it in your car... It's just hilarious that people actually do the mental gymnastics to make things like that make sense in their mind.

Bahaha... I just can't. It's not fair to make fun of special people.

Well I can appreciate your critical thinking in any case, I just wish it was in an attempt to be a more responsible steward of the places you loved. You're clearly a smart guy, why try so hard to fight against the very simple things we know about lead? If you know it's toxic as a gas and as a solid and when inhaled and ingested, why would you try to imagine a circumstance that *might* render it harmless when there is way more evidence that I feel would have the scales lean the other way? I always want to act on the side of caution when I can. We won't get a chance to take it back if we were wrong and that's enough for me personally. I will agree wholeheartedly that democrats are obnoxious and make me want to scream and pull my hair out, however I do think that being proactive about what we put into the water is a good thing... Even if whiny idiots I hate giving any credit to made it happen.

Another graduate from the Catt Culinary Arts Academy I see I like your style btw!

Lol... I love that response. It hangs on the assumption that unless someone does a specific study of lead sinkers- which has been proven to be extremely toxic for decades upon decades- in the capacity of them sitting on the bottom of a lake and degrading, it's toxicity should be in question. By the same logic one could assume that lead in outer space would be rendered safe for consumption since nobody has "proved" it's also deadly in zero gravity. Do you see what I'm saying? In full agreement with you- one or even a hundred sinkers spread out along on the bottom of a lake may do nothing of real gravity... But hundreds of years with hundred or thousands of fishermen doing it every day can add up and that's the point I'm making. One scrap of litter means nothing too, but you don't see us advocating throwing our trash around because "That little bit doesn't do anything" right? Look, we owe it to ourselves to be as responsible as possible. We are as well informed as it gets, I suggest we act like it! Acting like the future depends solely on everyone else's decisions but ours is no way to go forth responsibly. A soda can weighs less than many lead sinkers and aluminum is far less toxic but we still have a huge problem with people throwing those in the lake- why the discrepancy? I don't get it. It's the same thing, and even worse at that- but the same people who will give a litterer a piece of their mind are yelling at me for voicing my opinions about choosing to use lead when brass and tungsten are superior in every single way. Alas, please have me banned if you think I've crossed any lines here but I think you guys are smarter than that.

Does it really? That's weird, I'm in MA and actually hated Florida haha... If I ever go back I've been kidnapped, please call for help! Didn't mean to stir controversy though, I didn't know this was such a contested issue! I figured everybody knew lead was bad! To the guy who thinks the gubbermint is making up lead's toxicity to control us, I invite you to melt some down in your kitchen and report back with your findings! Hahahahaha... Just wow!!! Also maybe that was too strongly worded for this forum, I don't really know or really care tbh. Feel free to throw me out if you don't like hearing what negative factors you give in to when you make the poorer of two choices like that. Most can't handle being real with themselves anyways, and a wise psychology professor once old me the more truthful a negative observation on something is, the more those it applies to will become defensive of their actions. This makes the responses all the more interesting to me. So I guess carry on? Throw that lead if those $6 mean the difference between sitting home and going fishing (lol) As I've said many times, I never intended to insult anyone, just to make them aware of the obviously negative intuitions we give in to- and allow to become a part if us- when we do that. If you do them YOU make it real and attach it to yourself, don't be ticked at me because you decided to be cheap. If you don't want to be associated with those things, make more responsible decisions. Or you could get mad at me for speaking truth, that's constructive too I guess. Oh and john, if a safer alternative exists, I will ALWAYS use it. Sorry? Also if you're taking the opinions of a man who calls himself Master Bait'r online seriously enough to get mad, well that's just sad.

Lol yeah those 4oz weights aren't super popular these days haha... my mistake. Stupid mistake. 100 1/4oz weights would be about a pound and a half. Don't math before coffee, kids! Hahaha

Ha!... Didn't know I was in the company of people who can't handle constructive honesty when they ask a question about it specifically. If you still think I was insulting Hootie, you're way off base and being more than a little too sensitive about it. Again, if you don't want the truth, don't ask for it. I don't sugar coat things nor did I insult Hootie, I simply identified the causation of something we all do at times in the hopes that someone would actually absorb it and realize how crappy it really is to do. Would we all like to save money? Sure! Should we do it in a way that endangers something we care a great deal about? NO. That's lazy, irresponsible and selfish! Pull on your big boy boots and deal with it. I can't stand needless complaining either, Hootie can take care of himself and in any case I'm positive he survived my *open criticism of anyone who chooses Lead over Tungsten fully knowing the dangers of Lead*. Have a nice day guys.