bwjay

I never lock down my drag on my spinning reels. Never felt the need. Is this another thing that's different for baitcasters? Does everyone always lock down their drag? I always thought locking it down was bad unless you literally can't get a snag free.

Thank you so much for explaining. I did some searching and started reading about line digging. Not something I had read about... wish I had. Probably would've gotten the reel spooled with 40lb instead. Where does the line break when that happens? Does it break on line that's still a few turns from being exposed (like 10ft of line into the spool) or does it break on the line that's right on top? I have NO desire to toss my lures into the water never to be seen again, so I want to limit the possibility of this as much as possible. If it means driving another hour round trip to get my line re-spooled and essentially wasting 120yd of 20lb braid then so be it. $15 of braid is cheaper than $60 of lost lures from broken braid. I could use the 20lb braid on my backup spinning reel but most people say 20 is the absolute max, and I probably would want to go with 15 or 10lb even, but I don't really want to waste the 20. I'll still try casting a little with the 20lb I think, just to get a feel for casting, and if I end up backlashing a few times and waste a couple dozen yards of braid, I'm not gonna cry about it. So would you recommend if I'm gonna be throwing 1/4oz to 3/4oz cranks (lipped and lipless), but my average lure weight will be 1/4 to 1/2oz, to still go with 40lb? Is there really any disadvantage other than maybe not being able to throw 1/8oz lures with the heavier line, which I can do with my spinning setup anyway?

This is the first time I've ever heard this advice. I plan on using tight spool tension and maybe 4on2off brakes, and mastering thumbing the spool before I think about backing it off. I don't have any 1oz lures right now, I think just 3/4oz. Still, I haven't seen any recommendation that you need 40lb braid on a baitcaster. If you have any resources/links where I can read more about why it's necessary, I would really appreciate it.

It seems my post may have been too long. I appreciate the feedback from those who provided it. Maybe I thought my problem was more complex than it really was. I was looking at the St Croix 6'6" MHF Premier or the 6' MF Premier. I really wanted MH instead of M since I have a MXF spinning rod right now and I want to be able to throw heavier lures with the baitcasting setup. I went to Cabela's yesterday and reeeeally liked the 6' rod. It's so short and maneuverable! The handle was nice and short too and I think would be no issue with a PFD on. I was tempted to buy it but I just couldn't bring myself to buy another M power rod. So I said oh well and bought the 6'6" MHF. The handle isn't as short as the little 6 footer, but I think I will manage. I also got my Shimano SLX spooled up with 20lb PowerPro so I'm ready to start practicing my cast with 1oz weights. This rod cost more than the Eyecon and I may end up using the spinning setup more, but I'm willing to invest time and effort into mastering baitcasters and figured I can sell the rod if I end up not liking it or whatever the reason may be. I'm really looking forward to getting out with it. Hopefully this information helps someone in the future looking for a canoe-kayak-specific rod! I will try to remember to update this thread in a few months after I've had a chance to cast it (it's the dead of winter here right now) and ideally provide feedback on sensitivity and ergonomics. Thanks again to those who were able to point me in the right direction.

Well it seems many people came to the same conclusion as me. I was looking at the St Croix 6'6" MHF Premier or the 6' MF Premier. I really wanted MH instead of M since I have a MXF spinning rod right now and I want to be able to throw heavier lures with the baitcasting setup. I went to Cabela's yesterday and reeeeally liked the 6' rod. It's so short and maneuverable! The handle was nice and short too and I think would be no issue with a PFD on. I was tempted to buy it but I just couldn't bring myself to buy another M power rod. So I said oh well and bought the 6'6" MHF. I also got my Shimano SLX spooled up with 20lb PowerPro so I'm ready to start practicing my cast with 1oz weights. This rod cost more than the Eyecon and I may end up using the spinning setup more, but I'm willing to invest time and effort into mastering baitcasters and figured I can sell the rod if I end up not liking it or whatever the reason may be. I'm really looking forward to getting out with it. Thanks to everyone for their input! I welcome further recommendations so people who find this thread in the future have some more options to look at!

I only own up to 1/2oz lures right now. I may use a weight to deep troll spoons for lake trout but I won't be casting that setup and I might use my existing 6'3" MXF Eyecon spinning rod for that. As for fish size, I don't expect to hook into anything heavier than 7lbs, probably... and that would be a big pike or laker, a size I have never caught, but have the opportunity to catch in the Boundary Waters. Average fish size will probably be around 3lbs if I had to guess, no matter where I'm fishing (around Minnesota). I'm not targeting giants (for now).

Very good point. I didn't even specify casting or spinning either. Whoops! I've edited the OP, thanks!

Does anyone have any recommendations for a short (6' to 6'6") baitcasting rod for catching not only bass, but also northern pike, walleye, and lake trout? I don't think there is going to be a huge variance in the strengths needed to catch any of these fish, but I'm wondering what a solid middle ground would be. Bonus points if the handle is under 14". Looking to spend $100, no more than $150, as it will be my first casting rod (grew up with spinning) and don't want to break the bank right away. Thanks!

I will admit that it is not a very natural motion for me to articulate my left wrist in a circular motion, like how you reel a baitcaster, and it's gonna take me a while to get used to it, but no doubt much less time than it would to train my left arm to handle a rod with the accuracy and sensitivity I'd want. I feel like I'd be setting the hook in the wrong direction. Well, I've got a baitcasting reel on the way, gonna look at rods maybe this weekend, and if I find that using my left hand to hold the rod isn't completely out of the question, maybe I'll get a right-handed reel too and try it.

I can do some things with my left hand (non-dominant hand) but some things that might be useful, like setting a hook and fighting a fish, or throwing an item, or using a knife or hatchet, I cannot. I am also right eye dominant so shooting firearms is very much a right-hand right-eye activity. I suspect using a hatchet and throwing items, which require accuracy, would be very risky/inaccurate for a long time. I have no real need to use a knife or hatchet with my left hand in any sort of precise way, but throwing items with my left hand would come in handy.

Most people aren't ambidextrous, but people who are, are clearly at an advantage, not only for fishing, but any sort of sport or activity that may require the use of either hand based on proximity or reaction (like catching something). There's not much reason to be able to write with both hands, unless of course you're trying to fake out a handwriting recognition test.

It seems obvious to me to use your dominant hand for control of the rod, which is used to cast, feel bites, set the hook, and fight the fish. Your dominant hand/arm is more sensitive, and stronger. I really could not wrap my head around the idea of using my dominant hand to cast, then losing sensitivity and strength by switching the rod to my weak hand, just to do such a simple task as turning a lever with a handle that requires no finesse or strength. You do need some forearm endurance but that can be built up quickly. It seems so inefficient that the only reason I can think of for doing it is if you grew up doing it and can't retrain yourself. Funny enough, I think I saw on a Tactical Bassin video, Matt said he is a right handed guy who used left hand reels, and did that his whole life, but switched to right hand reels for some reason. Don't remember his rationale for it. I'll keep using my dominant hand for the rod as it is more sensitive, tactile, and strong.

Totally understand. Kids do get bored easily sometimes so I don't blame you for wanting to focus on becoming a better fisherman so you can teach your daughter and maybe show her an even better time than catching bluegills. It is possible that a new rod would really re-invigorate your desire to fish! I know new gear always gets me fired up to use it, for whatever it is (audio, fishing, computers, etc). If you get a chance, try to hit up a Cabela's or Bass Pro Shops and talk to some of the salesmen there. I always take what salesmen say with a healthy dose of salt, but nothing beats being able to see and feel the rod in person, and I bet they'd string one up for you and let you test it in a pond so you can feel what a lure dragging on bottom feels like, etc, to see if the sensitivity is there for you. Heck you could probably bring in your own rods to compare, too.

That's a good idea, try a few different rigs and presentations. If you have a couple rods that you know aren't super insensitive broomsticks, that might be a decent option. I am planning on getting a canoe/pack boat that weighs under 30lbs, that I can carry over my shoulder. I'll fit it with some rod holders and maybe eventually a spot for a depth finder, and it will have plenty of room for carrying cargo (plan to use it for week-long canoe trips). I live in an apartment around Minneapolis with no lakes within walking distance, at least not within 2 miles. But I suppose I could do a 2 mile hike with the boat because the ones I'm looking at are so light. The goal though is to let me fish little ponds and lakes, and I intend to drive the boat all over the Twin Cities to fish little spots like that as often as possible, even on weeknights right after work. Throw a quick dinner together in an insulated lunchbox, grab tackle, and go! Maybe an approach like this would work for you too. If you are interested in looking at some of those boats, shoot me a PM and I'd be happy to send you some links.

Hey, that might solve my concerns about sensitivity loss, and then I don't have to worry about not having enough foam/buoyancy. Plus I can use elastic tethers for other things like my tacklebox (only a single "large" Plano insert). I found the NeverLost tethers which aren't cheap, but I like that they come in many different colors. I might have to buy a few of those!

Could be the rod, could be the line you're using (I use 15lb PowerPro braid to 10lb fluoro leader), could be your retrieval technique, could be the way you're holding the rod... I certainly don't have enough knowledge or experience to speak to all of this, just trying to throw some variables out there. I would switch to braid if you have not already (knowing it can fray against rocks so a fluoro or mono leader is ideal). The sensitivity and responsiveness from braid alone might solve a lot of your problems. And I hate to say this because it sounds noobish, but if you're unsure of how to retrieve a particular bait, look it up on YouTube. I'm a relative newbie to fishing (hadn't touched a rod in 10 years until last year) so I've been watching tons of videos for all different types of baits, trying to understand how they work, how best to use them, when to use them, etc. I don't mean to insult by suggesting such a thing, but I learn by watching and then doing, and YouTube makes it so much easier because you can watch someone do it, as opposed to reading about it in text and trying to imagine it.

From what I understand there is a lot that goes into determining a successful hookset when talking about bass in particular, because of all the different baits people use and how the bite is different. I have read that for soft plastics that are either topwater or just barely subsurface (by using a swivel or something), you really want to count to 1,1000 before you set the hook, let them gulp it down. There is a guy known as "Quetico Mike" who swears by soft plastics that look just like the ZOOM flukes, and he says all of his fishing buddies have a low hookup ratio until they start waiting a full second AFTER the blowup/inhale before setting the hook. Setting it too early can rip it right out of the fish's mouth. That's how I understand it - haven't had a chance to fish those baits yet. I am usually a "set the hook immediately upon feeling a bite" kinda guy (typically vertical jigging for walleyes or burning a lipless), but there are times where patience helps, like in jigging, you can usually feel a few ticks on the line, so I usually wait for a second tick to be sure before I set the hook. I don't seem to miss many fish doing it this way but of course it varies on the person, the fish, the rod, etc...

Are you only looking to fish for bass? I ended up with a St. Croix Eyecon 6'3" MXF for vertical jigging, but used it for walleye, smallmouth, and lake trout, without any issues keeping fish pinned. It is also super sensitive (at least compared to everything I've ever used). I felt every single rock on the bottom, every weed. I had a ton of false hook sets with my lipless cranks when I first started using it because bumping along rocks felt like bites until I got used to the feeling of rocks. I believe it was around $100 and there are likely many better options for what you want to do, but I thought I'd at least offer my experience with the one decent rod I have. I'm planning to get a St. Croix Premier 6' MHF for topwater, cranks, lipless, spinners, basically anything but soft plastics and vertical jigging, though I think both rods can do it all.

I see Cabela's has the shorter St Croix rods so I'm checking those out. A 6' Premier MHF looks like the handle might actually be decent. I'm thinking a trip to the store might be in order, so I can try it in person. Maybe they will have the 6'6" BassX MHF as well which is the other possible contender (even though I'd be using it to catch many other things than bass). If the physics/mechanics aren't really any different, that is quite comforting. I know a shorter rod would be much more manageable in a tandem canoe. I have seen people saying you might not be able to reach around the bow if the fish runs under the canoe, but I'm not toooo concerned about that. I'm 5'10", my arms aren't super long by any means, but I don't think a 6' rod would be too much of an issue. I was using TW's rating for rod length, which is from the butt of the rod (very bottom, I'm new to these terms), to the top of the foregrip, which as I understand it, is where any foam/cork/etc stops and it's just the rod blank from there on up. It is possible that I am incorrect in this understanding so I'm glad I posted here! I think 12" would constitute as short; my Eyecon has a 12.5" handle but I think spinning rods generally have shorter handles than casting rods? So I'm not sure what I'd consider short, but I've seen thread where people recommend going shorter than 13" if possible. I just won't pay for a $350 Dobyns to get that short, lol! Another question since you didn't say anything about it - does my choice of baits for the combos I listed make sense? Am I trying to use the wrong rod style for the wrong thing? And do you think I could feasibly run any bait on the Eyecon/Premier (let's say) and not really be at a big disadvantage? From what I've read, even weightless Senkos or soft jerkbaits should be fine with a MHF rod. I ask because I might have a tube tied on the MHF rod as a follow-up to soft plastics on the MXF rod, but realistically I will probably have a lipless or spinnerbait as a search bait on the MHF and a tube/plastic on the MXF rod. Probably will use a snap on the MHF rod to switch search/followup baits easier. Thanks again for your advice, I really appreciate it! There's so much to know and so many options that I'm overwhelmed with trying to figure out what is best for my situation.

Thanks! It seems some people don't mind long rods in canoes/kayaks and others say short rods make a big difference for them. You clearly like the shorties! I don't know that I would go below 6' simply because I don't quite understand how the mechanics would be different for such a short rod. I would need to set the hook harder, and wouldn't be able to cast as far, basically? Or is there more to it? I don't want to be cutting the bottom off a brand new rod so I am probably gonna have to find a rod with a short enough handle right out of the box. I don't see such short St Croix rods on Tackle Warehouse but I haven't looked at every brand on multiple websites, so it's possible they just don't carry it. I know Tackle Warehouse doesn't stock the Eyecon rods. Would I be more likely to find shorter rods with shorter handles if I just headed over to Cabela's? I've got one about 30 minutes away. Thanks for the float link! Do those absorb vibrations? I'd be concerned about losing sensitivity by putting the foam above my hand. But it would depend on the type of foam and density and how tightly it's attached, I suppose, so maybe it wouldn't be a big deal.

Hey everyone! Let me give you a little background so you know what experience I have and maybe some incorrect assumptions I have. I'm sorry for all of the length, but I want to explain the context because I think my situation is a little uncommon. I am getting into fishing after a pretty long hiatus; after I graduated high school I didn't touch a rod for probably 9 years, until last year when I went on a canoe trip to the Boundary Waters. I was never that big into fishing, but I usually enjoyed it. When I did go fishing, it was usually with my dad, and we'd vertical jig for walleyes from an anchored boat (no trolling motor, not specifically a fishing boat). He used to fish for pike and muskie when he was younger, but I never went fishing for these with him, and he wasn't big into catching bass either. Of course I caught little panfish like sunnies and crappies on tiny little rods as a kid as well. Now that I am older, have more freedom and disposable income, and have gotten back into outdoor activities (like hiking and canoeing), I found that I really do enjoy fishing and I really want to do more of it. Before my canoe trip last year, I went to Cabela's with a friend with more experience, and he and the salesman got me a 6'3" St Croix Eyecon, Medium power Extra Fast action, vertical jigging spinning rod, and I paired it with a Pfleuger Presidential XT spinning reel. The line I chose (based on recommendation) was 15lb PowerPro braid to 10lb P-Line fluoro leader (but intend to switch to 10lb Sniper fluoro for a little more stretch). The reel could be smoother for sure but the drag seems to work well, and the rod was used for everything obviously. I've caught some lake trout on it (vertical jigging and casting lipless cranks), walleye (casting lipless cranks), and a single smallmouth trolling a crankbait. I didn't think it did particularly bad for anything, though the smallie while trolling wasn't immediately obvious due to the lack of bend deeper down in the rod. I picked up a bunch of lures (probably too many lol), with a handful of spoons (five of diamonds, red/white stripe), medium depth Shad Raps, some Husky Jerks, some Jointed Minnows, a couple lipless cranks in various colors and sizes, 5" tubes, a couple size 3-5 Mepps, soft plastics (ShadZ/ZToo), and a few topwaters like a Super Spook, Torpedo, and Skitter Pop. I want to catch everything I can catch up in northern Minnesota, which is mostly gonna be SMB/LMB, pike, walleye, and lake trout. I enjoy eating walleye and lake trout so they are sometimes a focus if my friends and I want a fish fry in the wilderness. Largely, though, I intend to focus on SMB and walleye, knowing I will probably get hit by plenty of pike using the lures I typically would for those two species. SO.... there is my fishing experience, the gear I currently have, and what I want to catch. Here are the caveats that limit the rods I can use (or so I think): * Most lakes in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area (BWCA) are super clear, with 12-30ft visibility. I have not been on a BWCA lake that had less than 10ft visibility unless the lake itself was really shallow and muddy, and even then, there was maybe 6-8ft of visibility. I intend to use braid to fluoro 100% of the time due to the water clarity and responsiveness of braid. * Sitting low in a canoe is like being in a kayak, so long rods are unwieldy. Walking the dog would be rough with a long rod while sitting - heck it already seems less than ideal with my 6'3" rod, and most are much longer than that. * I have yet to paddle a solo canoe, and plan to do trips in tandem canoes, which means I have to share the space and won't be able to pivot my body much, so I need a shorter rod for that reason as well. * I also need a short-ish handle because of the sitting position; I'm concerned about the rod being so long that it requires careful handing around my friends when fishing in the canoe, and the handle getting in the way of me handling it properly (like having clearance for good hook sets). * Due to wind and no motor, I've done more trolling than casting in the canoe, but want to do more casting, and am getting an anchor bag. Still, trolling will be frequent for me as we paddle around a lake or on travel days. I'm willing to invest a decent chunk of change to have TWO or THREE decent rods and reels. I have been watching lots of videos and doing lots of reading and here is what I THINK I want my setup to look like: * Soft plastics, tubes, vertical jigs St. Croix Eyecon 6'3" MXF spinning + Shimano Stradic CI4+ (I grew up with spinning, haven't learned baitcasting yet, figured I'd invest into a nice spinning reel) * Crankbaits, jerkbaits, tubes (for quick switching), spinners, spoons Dobyns Sierra 683 6'8" MHF casting + Shimano SLX (would go 6'6" Fury but the handle is shorter on Sierra + more sensitivity for $40 more) * Backup and hiking rod (all purpose) Shakespeare Ugly Stik GX2 Elite 2-piece MF/MHF + Pfleuger Presidential XT (not sure which length of the Ugly Stik but on the short side) I don't know that the Eyecon is the best finesse rod but I found it very sensitive with bottom dragging and rocks feeling like bites and I'd rather not replace it right now if I really don't have to. The Sierra seems nice but it's more expensive than I want, and slightly longer than I want, but has a shorter handle than the 6'6" MHF Fury. I'm willing to step down a little if I can get a shorter handle/rod but I really don't want to go above the price tier of the Sierra (~$150 max) especially since I'm very inexperienced with casting rods and may end up using the spinning setup more. If anyone knows the perfect short casting rod with a short handle, that has a decent backbone for hook sets, but is sensitive enough for lighter/finesse baits (without being a specialty finesse rod), and won't break the bank, please do let me know. I looked at many but I can't find many with less than a 13.5" handle and even then they're usually 6'8" or 6'10" at a minimum, and I absolutely want to stay under a 7' rod. If you made it this far, THANK YOU for reading!!! I appreciate any and all criticism you have. I have 2 BWCA canoe trips coming up this year, one going hunting for brook trout for a few days, and one for grand slams (SMB/pike/walleye/lake trout) for a week. I really want to slay 'em, and I know I don't have to spend a ton of money to do so, but I want to invest in some setups that I can grow into. P.S. If anyone knows if a good float solution, in case the canoe tips or the rod goes overboard, to keep it from sinking, I'm all ears. I was thinking some dense foam plus a short Dyneema wire or something, tied/rubber banded to the bottom of the handle.