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keeganzpapa

Lawrence Hook-4 Lake with Chirp

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Well, I went online this morning and purchased a Garmin Striker 4 DV finder from westmarine.com for a 16% discount off full price with free shipping. I regretted at the time that I was not spending the extra $50.00 for something with maps. After posting on here if anyone could tell me about the unit, and after reading Scott F's reply and remembering Wayne P's previous posts, I convinced myself I needed maps. westmarine,com's live chat permitted me to change my order to a Lawrence Hook-4-Lake with CHIRP Transducer, Built-in GPS Antenna, Lake Pro Cartography and Cover. It was down 45% from $369,99 to $199,99 with free shipping to my home. I apologize to anyone who posted on my other concerning the Garmin Striker 4 DV, but can someone now tell me their experiences with this unit?  Thanks in advance, and sorry again for the change.

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I have last year's version of the Hook, the Elite 5. My only problem was the maps that came built in were just horrible. I purchased 2 other lake map chips that I hoped would be an improvement but they were just the same low def, inaccurate maps I already had. I can't find any info on the Lake Pro Cartography. I hope for your sake they are an improvement over the maps that are included on the Hook.

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Thank You Scott F, when my Mother was living she used to say "Even bad breath is better than no breath at all."  The maps that come built in are probably the same quality as what you have. I  seem to have a very hard time finding much information on this particular unit, however I hope it has a card holder for purchasing navionics maps sd cards. I have seen some of Wayne P's work, and they seem pretty accurate, and I know he uploads to Navionics, and updates them as well, and some of them are my local lakes (reservoirs). I hope I did not do wrong by changing, but even bad maps have to be be better than having none on the Garmin unit. Everything on west marine's website refers to the Lowrence Hook 4 "Elite".   But nothing refers to just the Hook 4, wonder what the "elite" means   

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Bad maps can be dangerous. I was running on a lake I'd never been on before. The map chip on the Lowrance showed shallow water ahead of me but the rock I hit with my prop was not on the map. The Echomap series of Garmin units which are more money, have excellent maps built in, 6,000 high definition maps plus another 11,000. No map chip purchases required. Plus you can create your own high def maps in real time just by driving back and forth on your lake if no map or only a low def map exists. Their 4 inch unit with maps as I'm sure you saw, start at $400. I got an EchoMap 73sv (7 inch screen) last spring on sale for $450 to replace my Lowrance unit.

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Unfortunately the Hook 4 is my budget limit, and allows me to get a taste of everything. I downloaded a manual and it does have a sd chip slot, so my next purchase will probably be a Navionics Maps sd card. After browsing through 56 pages of manual on the internet my head is spinning. They combine the several Hook models into one manual and you don't know what you've got till you get the unit and power it up I guess. I run an Old Town Guide 147 canoe with a small MinnKota TM so I think this will do for now. I can't imagine being on a new lake far from the dock and breaking a prop, however it did happen to me 30 years ago on an old Ted Williams 4,5 hp. The shear pin broke, and luckily I carried an extra and a pair of pliers. That must have been a real day spoiler for you, and I can certainly understand why you would be upset.

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All the gps makers have a disclaimer that says not to use the unit as your primary means of navigation.  Like most people, I did not pay attention to the fine print. 

If anybody else has used the Navionics chip for their Lowrance, I'd like to hear about your experiences and the quality of the maps. If it's as good as the online version, I'd probably buy one before I junk my Lowrance in favor of another Garmin

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10 minutes ago, Scott F said:

All the gps makers have a disclaimer that says not to use the unit as your primary means of navigation.  Like most people, I did not pay attention to the fine print. 

If anybody else has used the Navionics chip for their Lowrance, I'd like to hear about your experiences and the quality of the maps. If it's as good as the online version, I'd probably buy one before I junk my Lowrance in favor of another Garmin

The Navionics Web App has the current maps. Any Navionics map card when updated will have the exact same maps.

A new purchase of any Navionics map card includes a year of Freshest Data Updates. If you buy one today and register/update it today, you will have maps current as of today.

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I also see that if I use one of my old (useless) map chips, I can get it for only $100. 

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1 hour ago, Scott F said:

I also see that if I use one of my old (useless) map chips, I can get it for only $100. 

Any map card can be used to activate a Navionics Update card so the Update card becomes the Navionics+ version. The Update card is $99 MSRP.

A direct purchase of a Navionics+ card is $199.

You end up with two functioning map cards, the old one and the new one. Just cannot use the old card again to activate another Update card. 

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I was hoping Waye P was listening.  :rolleyes:

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Wayne P  ... Part of the description of the unit I ordered from West Marine states it contains "Included is Americas chart Lake Pro (TM) with thousands of detailed lakes across the USA".  "Global Chart upgrade Options include Navionics+ and Jeppesen-C-Map Max-N"  would you be able to tell me what all this means? Do you think I will have contour maps of some of our local lakes and reservoirs which you have charted thru Navionics? with hopefully no extra fee?

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Lake Pro is mapping in the unit's memory. Some higher end Lowrance units have Insight mapping built-in.

The "Global Chart" refers to contour maps by Navionics or Jeppenen-C-map for foreign waters. You would get those by purchasing their map cards.

Do not know what the coverage of Lake Pro or Insight is, but if you want more than what you get, you have to add another map product and it isn't free.

If you want the Hunting Run HD contour map I did, you only have one choice, Navionics Sonar Charts.

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Thank you Wayne P., It is great to have someone that you know is not guessing and whose answers are verifiable.  A lot of people try to guess a good answer that I don't entirely trust to be reliable, and I am not referring to anyone else in this post, just how I have felt on other post pages. Can you tell me, since the unit I am buying is chart plotter capable, would I be able to take the SD card that comes with it or a separate SD card and chart Hunting Run Reservoir for my own personal use?  Would the different scan periods files merge to make one chart or would they just be single useless files of each attempt to cover the entire reservoir? That would save me the cost of Navionics or Insight Genesis membership if it worked.

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On 29/11/2016 at 7:01 AM, keeganzpapa said:

Unfortunately the Hook 4 is my budget limit, and allows me to get a taste of everything. I downloaded a manual and it does have a sd chip slot, so my next purchase will probably be a Navionics Maps sd card. After browsing through 56 pages of manual on the internet my head is spinning. They combine the several Hook models into one manual and you don't know what you've got till you get the unit and power it up I guess. I run an Old Town Guide 147 canoe with a small MinnKota TM so I think this will do for now. I can't imagine being on a new lake far from the dock and breaking a prop, however it did happen to me 30 years ago on an old Ted Williams 4,5 hp. The shear pin broke, and luckily I carried an extra and a pair of pliers. That must have been a real day spoiler for you, and I can certainly understand why you would be upset.

might as well check out this one, Elite 5 for $170 after rebate

http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Lowrance-Elite-5-HDI-Fishfinder/Chartplotter-With-Suncover&i=922116

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47 minutes ago, keeganzpapa said:

Thank you Wayne P., It is great to have someone that you know is not guessing and whose answers are verifiable.  A lot of people try to guess a good answer that I don't entirely trust to be reliable, and I am not referring to anyone else in this post, just how I have felt on other post pages. Can you tell me, since the unit I am buying is chart plotter capable, would I be able to take the SD card that comes with it or a separate SD card and chart Hunting Run Reservoir for my own personal use?  Would the different scan periods files merge to make one chart or would they just be single useless files of each attempt to cover the entire reservoir? That would save me the cost of Navionics or Insight Genesis membership if it worked.

I don't know if a Hook is compatible with Insight Genesis which is a Lowrance shared mapping product. I don't keep up with the "off brands" much.

I did see there is/will be a new HDS unit update that will do Navionics Sonar Charts Live, but that is still shared mapping and the processed data is loaded to a Navionics map card.

Three of my Humminbird units have Auto Chart Live built-in. That software creates HD contour mapping in the unit's memory or to a Auto Chart Zero Line card, and is not shared. That software creates contour mapping that is cumulative--the more you do, the more total data you have.

Any other map creation software is the same, you keep adding data until all the lake bottom is surveyed.

I uploaded my Hunting Run sonar logs to the Navionics Sonar Charts map server to get that data processed FREE. It is FREE for anyone to view or download to their mobile device or Sonar Charts compatible map card. I have all those recordings and can load them to the commercial Auto Chart or Auto Chart Pro computer software and have a private Lakemaster HD map for there if I want. Still takes the purchase of the computer software though. I certainly am not going to spend the time to cover the whole lake again to have Auto Chart Live mapping on any of my units. I have done some test passes with Auto Chart Live to see what it does.

I did not pass over every square foot of terrain so the Sonar Charts map has just as much interpolation as if any map company would have since no company collects data for every square foot. You won't either if you do it. 

The colored areas are Auto Chart Live overlayed on the Navionics Sonar Charts map of Hunting Run:

snp0515155726_zpsfnynwb1r.jpg

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I think that it is pretty awesome that you can make those trails, (looks like several day's work) and turn it over to the computer and see the quality of chart which it developed, and then anyone else that sends data in will help upgrade its quality. Sweet!

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1 hour ago, keeganzpapa said:

I think that it is pretty awesome that you can make those trails, (looks like several day's work) and turn it over to the computer and see the quality of chart which it developed, and then anyone else that sends data in will help upgrade its quality. Sweet!

I have done lots more since.

Only when the track map has the lake solid red will the whole contour map be completely accurate.

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Please permit a couple more questions. (Remember, I won't have side scan. Only Down scan and imaging.) Having not received the Hook 4 with down view and sonar scan yet, and looking at the transducers on line and thinking I know which one comes with it, It appears to have a window looking aperture or lens on one end, and that end faces in the direction which would be the left side of the screen, or what you have already or are passing over, soon to be at the rear of the vessel. If I am in my canoe, anchored, over structure, let's say a tree or bush, is it going to show as being directly below me or am I going to have to be ahead of it to see it looking back?  Does the down view come from a reflection bouncing up from the bottom, or is it a picture like image through the lens on the end or is that just for water temperature?  I think I know the sonar pings back up off the bottom. If I am placing a buoy to mark something below the surface, I can see how easy it would be to misplace it. (Hope this does not sound like such a novice question, but in all honesty, it truly is.

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I just picked up the hook 5 combo with the navionics chip for 375.00 from TW

I am on 2 major lakes in NH and neither are on the standard maps

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http://lakeinsight.gofreemarine.com/?_ga=1.129636812.1339678585.1480632086 NH Bull, try this site, supposedly this GOFREE Lake Insight is preloaded.  Let me know how you do, hope this helps. A rep from Lowrance said that either Insight Nautic or insight Lakes would be preloaded. Could it be in the chip that comes with the unit that has to be loaded into it>

Edited by keeganzpapa
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First thing first, the transducer is not a video camera and the display is not a video monitor

A traditional sonar pulse (sound) is a somewhat inverted cone shape. The deeper the water is, the larger the area it covers.

An imaging pulse is very thin front to back and wide to the sides, think CAT scan like hospitals use.

Garmin DownVu and 2D sonar are "aimed" directly downward.  ClearVu that replaced it is oriented a little forward to try to get by the lawsuit for using a downward oriented imaging pulse.

For practical purposes both look straight down.

I don't not know what the rated coverages are for Garmin transducers, but I can explain what Humminbirds are and you can get an idea. Garmin uses 200 and 77 kHz and ? pulse strength loss rating.

The 200 kHz 2D sonar pulse is rated at 20 degrees of coverage which is 1/3 the depth. That means in 30' of water, the bottom coverage is a 10' diameter circle--that is not an absolute, just a general idea. The 83 kHz 2D sonar pulse is rated at 60 degrees of coverage which is equal to the depth. That means in 30' of water, the bottom coverage is a 30' diameter circle. The coverages are based on the sound strength loss of -10 db from the center.

No matter what brand you have that has a LCD display, the sonar data is recorded one vertical screen pixel row at a time on the very right side of the screen. Then that row is moved left as history and the next vertical row records the sonar data, etc. The data stays on the screen unit it scrolls off the left side. Newest data is on the right side and oldest data is on the left side.

So when a sonar pulse is recorded, everything within that inverted cone is recorded on that single vertical row of screen pixels. There is no left/right/front/back. Everything within the sonar pulse will be recorded as long as it stays within that sonar pulse. What you see recorded can be anywhere and any direction, you will just know it's "down there".

For the depth readout, the very center of the pulse is used to calculate the depth (which is distance from the transducer) since that is where the strongest part of the sonar pulse is and where the bottom is closest to the transducer.

Humminbird's Down Imaging pulse is 74 degrees wide and just a few inches from front to back. Don't know what Garmin's is, but is pretty thin since it does do just as good as HB. With that wide coverage, everything is still recorded one vertical pixel row at a time.

Since you will have both technologies, you can use the DownVu to let you know something is directly below the transducer from left to right (thin coverage forward and rearward), just have to guess using 2D sonar.

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Thanks Wayne P., that is what I needed to understand.

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