Paul Roberts

You are simply seeing what is way more common than most anglers realize. Under high vis conditions and shallow water, that is the norm. Every cast promises a fishless path stretching a cast's length in front of you. Good advice given above. Many of those fish are catchable, if you can get a lure to them.

Both survival and growth in large part come down to having enough food. Bass that cannot find enough food may become roamers. Some of these fish however may actually hit the jackpot -schools of trout perhaps. There's a chunk of research that suggests that when there's enough food in a given area, bass roam less. So, yes, BIG bass may be less apt to be roamers in many waters. But this is not a hard and fast rule. John Hope’s telemetry efforts in Texas lakes showed that the largest bass were what he called “flushers”, that were actively hunting and flushing prey. “Ambushing” (not an accurate term when pertaining to bass, but adequate when used loosely) he said was relegated to shallow water bass, all of which were less than 7lbs. Such strategies would likely be reversed in many Florida waters, say. I guess my point is that metabolic efficiency does not preclude aggressiveness.

NO!

I hear you on fishing waters that can grow big fish. I see "location" as meaning -within a given water body. It’s interesting that a lot of the thread is wrangling through the jargon. We anglers often coin our own language, adopt jargon, and use words interchangeably. I’m also aware of the multiple levels of time and place scaling involved when people talk fishing. Scaling is a tough thing to get a handle on. It’s easy to make the big broad predictions –like water body and season. But things get hairier the closer and finer we get in specific locations and timing. My giving 10% away to "entropy” was my paying humble homage to the complexities inherent in fishing. Granted, it would have been less complicated had I just used 100% at each step. As I understand it, fishing is a lot about being in control, understanding, knowing where you’re at and what’s up. But to be brutally honest with my ego, I must concede to the fact that most often it’s my hindsight that’s 20:20. My foresight is not so finely resolved. There are too many things (I call them conditions and circumstances) that rear up and dash my best laid plans. So I re-think, adjust, adapt, and in the end, I have a cohesive story. But the story wasn’t written before I left the house. And my final story is always just a little piece of what’s really going on out there. I’m proud of what I do know, and that I know enough to predict at some level and, often, how to adjust. Yet I’m well aware that this works best when I can fish every day. It would work even better if I were an otter. But I’m not. Well… interestingly, one angler’s bad day can be another’s boon; even when they're sharing the same boat! We all start as one-trick wonders, and add versatility over time. I’m sure we’ve all had conditions and circumstances when we couldn’t catch a fish, and had someone show us how to do it, or we just figured out a new wrinkle. Some can be real eye openers. I’ve had all kinds of ideas as to why the fish weren’t biting. Many were and are true. But there are more ways in than I presently understand, or manage to decipher in the moment.

First you have to find them –that’s location. Then you have to catch them –that’s presentation. At first, location (and all that encapsulates –gonna lump timing in here for brevity) is 90% of the game. After that, the fundamentals of presentation become 90% of the game. After that, what you choose to throw becomes 90% of the game. After that, tweaking, altering, adjusting can become 90% of the game. There is no one answer. It’s a process. Where's the missing 10% at each step? That's luck. And stuff I have no control over, or simply don't understand. And to be fair, there's a sliding scale there.

Ditto. I look at structure from a functional perspective. It's not the fact that points, drops, and flats are objects, it's what happens on those objects that really matters. Realize though that not every flat holds the fish you might be looking for. There's usually more to the story than the given object. But this is sliding off topic. I see the topic as whether or not big baits offer anything special in terms of attracting/triggering bigger bass, and I think they do. Does this mean that location and timing don’t matter? Absolutely not, and despite what Matt was (maybe over)-reacting to in the OP, no one here is seriously suggesting that location and timing are going to be replaced by some magic bait. Lures catch fish in context only. Those contexts are determined by conditions and circumstances within living systems. That isn't likely to change.

I'm not a big bass specialist, but think I can offer something relevant. I think Matt’s claim that big baits attract big bass at a higher rate than smaller baits is valid. Not that there aren’t other ways and places and times to catch big bass at satisfying rates, of course; largemouth are highly adaptable creatures and much of fishing is very local. But I think the big bass big bait concept is simply a part of the largemouth’s nature. A while back now, I took a shot at the big bait game, dedicating part of a summer to throwing big baits in some of the small waters I frequented. This was in the early 80s and swimbaits were spanking new and essentially unavailable to me in NY. So I threw muskie plugs (Swim Whizz), muskie-sized spinnerbaits (One SB I had threw such a wake it caused wavelets to lap the shore of some of those ponds lol), and 13" worms. And I broke two pond records and my PB in the process. I found that it decreased catches of smalls, but took fish of 3lbs up (18") just fine. A friend did the same thing and his overall catch rate dropped below what satisfied him, but he broke his PB twice doing it. Interesting thing was, these were small waters –captive audiences more or less– meaning it wasn't primarily a location or timing deal; it was just up-sizing my lures. I came to the conclusion that bigger baits attract and trigger larger bass at a higher rate than average sized baits did. And it supported my original suspicion –the reason I tried it in the first place– that many outsized largemouths are big, in large part, because they had simply broken into the next trophic level (a critter’s position in the food chain). In short, those fish target bigger prey. A stop, or gap, in the chain is called a trophic barrier or trophic threshold and it’s the point where fish quit growing, having to spend too much energy to catch too little food. There may be bigger food around, but the bass aren’t big enough to swallow it. Food chains are rarely complete enough in most waters (unable to offer enough food of the right size or energy content per effort) for bass to grow big. This is even more likely to be so in the north, compared to the south where productivity is so much higher and where prey fishes may produce more than one brood per year. I became hip to this from chasing big stream brown trout (and through my fisheries background) and finding that most streams, even small ones, have a few browns in them that dwarf the run-of-the-mill insect eaters. The dry-fly guys aren’t going to even know these fish exist. The nymph fishers will stumble on one every now and then. But the guys who fish hardware and certain big flies, in the right locations and times (water temperature and food availability are key), find them. Some target them, but very few do for the same reasons most bass fisherman don’t target out-sized bass. How does an individual brown, or largemouth, grow beyond its brethren? It jumps the gaps in the food chain by obtaining more food than the others, growing larger and thereby allowing them to capture and swallow still larger prey that are normally safe from the hordes of smaller bass. Doug Hannon has stated that bass get big by being extra aggressive individuals. (I suspect this is at work in brown trout too.) Those largemouths you occasionally find choking to death on prey that was a bit too big? They may just bear witness to the on-going selection battle between largemouth and their prey. Here are a few examples of largemouths (and one spot) that tried to break the bank: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmnAIx7FueQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPmq4oulSiM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXVOGtZqGh4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtgNprDqijs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EehujHwR70w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKBmONt_dds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8lvtRM8SgQ

On overcoming the fear: It's normal if you haven't done it before. Anything so new is freaky. Try this: When you get in don't just stay on top, bc you can't see past the surface film. It's a real visual barrier. It's often the fact that you can't see that's so inherently scary, and the fact that your ears and nose are out of commission too. Start very shallow and get under the surface. When you can see bottom it suddenly isn't so freaky. It's a familiar sight -just like dry ground. Then as you are ready work your way deeper, parallel to shore. Soon it'll be easy. The next freak-out for me was coming over a sheer drop-off. I got vertigo the first few times! Your brain is telling you your going to fall. But, gravity isn't there. Another new sensation. Eventually you'll love "flying". It's easier -less "freaky" -if you stay closer to bottom.This can actually get novice scuba divers in trouble. It's easy to lose track of your depth. This is not an issue with snorkeling bc you run out of breath before you can get in trouble. But being under for an hour with tanks on and you can actually forget you aren't an aquatic critter! Start shallow. Get under the surface. You'll be fine. And... there's nothing there that'll hurt you. You do need is water clear enough, and that's not always easy to find. Light attenuates quickly underwater, over depth and distance. Add cloud cover and it attenuates MUCH quicker. Add any dissolved (stain) or suspended material (roil) and you won't be able to see much at all. This in itself is informative. Good luck with it.

Unless there are large gators you are pretty much safe. "There is nothing to fear but fear itself." I've snorkeled a few ponds myself. It's wonderful! Water clarity and amount of sunshine will make a big difference, so pick a sunny day, and midday, for visibility. If you aren't a strong swimmer, tether an inner tube to your waist. When approaching fish, keep your arms still as much as possible -flailing arms and water movement will push them ahead of you. If you can move fluidly you can get surprisingly close to fish. It's often less the sight of you than the feel of you that alarms them. Go for it!

The difficulty in answering such a question lies in separating actual bass behavior from angling results. The two are not always related. There are a few “general rules” usually offered in dealing with high vis conditions: -fish deep -fish dense cover /shade -go to light tackle. -fish fast and aggressive All say more to me about how bass respond to angling than to what their actual behavior is. Bass (esp in shallow water) can be darn spooky and darn tough to dupe under high vis conditions. So, it's tough to tell, by angling alone, what's really going on below. I've only had the opportunity to observe bass in shallow waters and can say that under high vis conditions I’ve seen bass active and relatively aggressive, lethargic, to nearly dormant –what I’ve called the “brilliant blue stupor”. I much prefer a good overcast sky, the darker the better, and/or a good breeze rippled surface; it just makes approach and presentation so much easier. But, if I end up with brilliant skies and flat calm water I can adapt, although I've had more skunks on high vis than attenuated vis days. What I've seen, and there's some research out there that, suggests that bass have an advantage over prey fishes under attenuated light and bass are at a disadvantage under high vis conditions.

Don't think he's asking about when bass spawn, but when he can most expect to be catching all year long. Immediate conditions and circumstances trump the moon.

Nature is complex. Precious little is obvious. That said, my observations generally jive with yours.

All good advice above. Since you say it's a "pond" I'm going to assume you can still reach some of those fish. A couple things: -Bass have a general tendency to move away from shorelines in summer. It may be temperature related and/or they be following prey as both bluegills and shad are known to move out too. -Summer water temps can be too high for bass in many waters, and its not just the temperature alone but that and its relationship with prey availability. Bass at high metabolic rates need food to sustain them. If there isn't enough they can become inactive, awaiting better temperatures or periods and locations where prey is more available and/or vulnerable. If there is plenty of food they may continue to feed at surprisingly high temps. -Some waters, notably those with dense vegetation that blocks sunlight, and those with a lot of planktonic algae (soupy green waters), can end up with an oxygen deficit at high temps. Some ideas for ferreting out answers: -During summer on my ponds I break out a long distance rig -a large spool spinning rig full of braid and a long rod. Sometimes long range bombing can help solve it. -Night fishing, as Catt suggested, is always worth a shot. Problem may be solved just like that. I've had that happen. If O2 is an issue you'll likely do best earlier in the night as O2 usually drops overnight. -To test if temperature is an issue, try fishing at daybreak when water is coolest. I've had the first light bite be nothing short of amazing on ponds that appeared dead during the day. If the first light bite fails, there may be an O2 issue as well. -Search out other waters. Each water body has different ecological circumstances that can make or break them as summer fishing spots. You don't want to overlook things, but you also don't want to be beating a dead horse.

Here’s one mystery solved: I’m still around, sort of... I’m living in the Philippines. New Zealand?? Believe me, I wish! While my wife teaches and our son attends school here, I’m spending my time writing and researching. I’m hoping to get some books out, working almost simultaneously on an archery book and one on bass. Also there’s one on deck on trout. And I’m putting together some material on human/nature connections, and observation skills. Been in touch with Roger a bit (RoLo). He's on and off; You'll likely see him again. Good to hear Muddy's doing well. Hey John, you know we actually met once, although neither of us knew it at the time. I was back east visiting my Dad and we stopped by one of my old haunts -that quarry on... . You were just getting your gear out to fish and I asked you about the place. It sure had changed, with the beavers in there. And it was public. Back when I fished it (in the 80s), it was private. Anyway, I didn’t know it was you until later when I saw a pic of you on BR. I’ve got family in Roch and Erie. Mebbe some day eh? Nice to know I’m missed anyway. Thanks for the kind words folks. I do check in every now and then but am trying not to get sucked in too deep. I’m not one for short answers as many of you probably know. There are two bass lakes here on Luzon, and if I get there I’ll write a report –fish or no fish. Bass in tropical waters show some interesting limitations that help define them –or stretch that definition some. Cheers, all!

I don't pack light, esp when hitting new water. After I know a place I can lighten the load some. Then I generally change out my pack contents for each season.

It's not the number of posts. Newbs are totally welcome. It's that the post reads like a plug for a lure and company.

Spam.

The biggest issue is probably the visibility. Try at night or under deep overcast. A good wind ripple will help too. Under really high vis conditions you get to see just how stupid lures actually look, and how many fish think so too.

Excellent tip. When introducing friends to pond fishing I used to take them to a pond and challenge them to sneak up to water's edge without spooking a fish -without causing a single ripple from the near shore fish. It's virtually impossible to do, esp over damp soil causing pressure wakes. Stealth is an advantage few anglers are hip to, and makes a bigger difference than even the stealthy ones often realize.

Probably your Bass have finished spawning and carp are spawning. No direct relationship, although I have seen LM following carp as Scott F mentions.

This sums it up pretty well. Metabolism becomes more of a factor during cold water periods in that fish cannot process as much food as they can in warm water, thus affecting how often they might possibly feed. But available (and vulnerable) prey is the greatest limitation. Food rules.

If these are such popular waters then people are catching fish. Time to do some homework. Read all you can. Contact your DNR about these waters: forage species, depth usage, and see if maps are available. Consider joining a bass club, or keep your eyes open for successful anglers to buddy up with. To answer the topic question: As many as it takes. I don't know an angler who hasn't.

One can be in a great location and catch nothing, or catch a few, or catch a lot. The rest of the equation matters too.

Good basic breakdown by RW: Location, strike zone, technique, bait, fine tune.

AH1 That warn't me. That was the one and only Dr Reelgood: http://www.bassresource.com/bass-fishing-forums/topic/70575-bass-on-a-shoestring-budget/