Paul Roberts

Thanks, Tom. Good point. I suppose that was J Francho's and BassWhole's points too. For big strong-running fish, esp salmon and tuna, that can turn and give you the tail for prolonged periods are a different animal from bass. Although big smallies on light tackle, esp boat-side, can require some lifting. Again, my point wasn't to say lifting/pumping have no place. Just that leading (and/or torque-reeling) has its place, and has an interesting effect on hooked fish. It seems fish don't 'feel the hook' s much as they 'feel the tug' of the line and rod. Phew! Maybe I'll wait to discuss such things until after cabin fever season has passed. I was curious, so I looked at some of my fights on video and see that my default is indeed to lead. I lift (pump) in close when bigger fish can turn away and give me that tail! I also had a foul-hooked (belly-hooked) carp that required some serious lifting. I hate fighting foul-hooked fish. It gets old fast.

Ouch! I've never seen that, but can picture it! Having the guides ripped off a rod must be a SW thing, where there are fish big enough and strong enough to really test -even break- quality tackle, and an angler physically. I've never done any "big game" fishing and would guess that's a different realm. To clarify, I didn't mean to suggest there is no place for pumping. Obviously, a rod can only move so much line. But in certain circumstances, besides winching -esp super-light tackle- telegraphing to the fish isn't helpful. That said, I don't think I do that much 'pumping' while fighting bass. Could just be that they just don't move all that far, and all I'm doing is keeping a tight line and guiding them. Compare that with Chinook salmon, as John mentioned, which are big strong dogged fighters that can cover water, and have to be physically subdued. I also found that they -and lake trout- can be negatively buoyant and thus actually adding weight to the fight. Also, the larger channel cats I've tangled with also require pumping, or lifting. Partly bc they are big and strong fighters, but also bc their body's are both laterally compressed along the flanks and horizontally compressed with that shovel-shaped head. They can run well when a distance out, and become what I’ve come to call, “cinder blocks with fins” when directly below the rod. They simply have to be lifted. I also wonder if they aren’t somewhat negatively buoyant during these fights too. They can sure feel like it. I'm curious though, what my bass fights look like, how much ‘pumping’ I do. Since I have video of a lot of catches, I'll have to take a look and see.

Yes. Drag and back-reeling do the same thing.

What will employing the drag do for me? Esp in the described situations -heavy cover winching?

Can't really tell from the photo. Looks mostly LM to me. The head looks a bit "smallmouthy" to me, but that could be the photo angle. If those are indeed bars along the sides -tough to tell in the photo- it could be a LMxSM cross. To tell you'd likely need some careful measurements. Are there both species in this water? If not, then even more unlikely.

Yes, that's very much part of the game. Plan B, etc. can be how to get that tangled fish outta there. Go in and dig em out. Slack up and guide them out. Wait them out. Twang the line, ... But, our experiences are similar -although your fish (esp in BC) are going to top out bigger than mine- wrapped fish tend to get off too often. If I can do it, I'll keep that head turned my way and won't give them a moment to get that head turned. Hey, if you got the head, the body and fins, must follow (unless it's an eel -ever tug-of-warred with one of those? 😮). Main reason why foul-hooked fish are so awful to fight too. If I'd ever fouled a steelhead on 1kg line (or a 3kg line for that matter), I'd simply break it off and re-tie. Could be. I haven't noticed such a problem either. But then again, I've never tried winching with a Cardinal 4. Could just be a myth. Easy enough to test I would think.

Hey, Mobasser. The two best things I've found are mineral spirits and Dawn dish soap. And I've tried a number of things so far. Many of the de-greasing products you can buy are mineral-spirits, or soap, based. I use odorless MS and it works great. I use a toothbrush to scrub with. Then I wash the MS off with the dish soap. Then I wash the soap off with fresh water. Soaps can be corrosive over time. For some materials and finishes, Dawn alone is recommended. But, so far, I've not had MS be corrosive in any way to the metals and plastics I've used it with. And it's the fastest de-greaser I've used. Hope this helps.

Thanks @Bubba 460. Interesting perspective. Appreciate your chiming in. I think the apparent "confusion" in this thread (the derogatory comments... I just don't get) around pumping here has to do with the fact that I'm a back-reeler so there is no drag at play. I'm free to lock down, probably similar to what Bubba460 gets with 65# braid and 33lbs of drag. The problem I've had with pumping fish in heavy cover is that once the rod is maxed out, there is no way I can recover (rod angle for another pump) before the fish can turn its head down. Keeping the fish's head turned toward me is the surest way to keep them from wrapping up in cover... or prolonging a fight anywhere for that matter. And that requires 'winching'. I did not bring my question up to talk back-reeling. I frankly hadn't thought about it. When I need to do some real winching, I tend to use a casting reel, with heavy braid and drag locked down. Bubba's post makes clear, for me, that there is spinning gear that can winch. My opening question had to do with a myth(?) that worm-gear reels do not winch well. I'll head off triggering anyone any more by answering ahead that I skip better, further, with spinning gear than I currently can with casting gear. I've got some overhung brush and trees here that require some serious skipping to get back under. I recently bought a Quick 331 for this purpose. Was wondering if anyone could speak to worm-gear reels as a winch. But, if your drag isn't locked, I guess the question is moot. And... I stand by all the rest of what I offered about fighting, what I've come to call, "neutrally buoyant hydrofoils". The best way I know to understand what that means is to lock your drag down. Then try it with a 1kg line and feisty steelhead to really get a bead on what that means. Yeah, I know... blah, blah, blah...

Yup. As to stupid boating action, just be sure I’m not anywhere near your boat and all will be fine. I seem to have been the only consistent element in such troubles. I’m safe now, with gray hair and a float tube on a small pond.

Lost me. Moving on...

Somehow we are not understanding each other. Never said those small stripers are "hard-fighting". That wasn't the point. Read it again, or... not.

Let's not go there. Add that to high rod stalemating and... I'll jump overboard. So... I found a cool article about worm-gear reels (the author likes them, a lot), and in talking about gear mechanical efficiency said that w-g's, although the strongest and smoothest of gear systems, give up a bit in efficiency that only becomes practically at issue at very high gear ratios (8:1). The original comment I'd read (mentioned in the OP) about w-g reels 'binding' also offered that he'd only experienced anything like this in the high speed w-g reels. Again, I'll play around with them and see if I can even get one of my w-g reels to 'bind'.

I think that'd be angle IN the fish. Nuk nuk. OK... now I've ruining my own thread.

The Ugly Stick and its predecessor, the Howald Wonderod, truly are wonders. They have been so popular and durable that archeologists some day far in the future, digging deep enough, will probably name a layer the Ugly Stick layer. I've never owned an US, but caught plenty of bass with other glass rods once upon a time. But was eventually spoiled by graphite. Still haven't quite recovered, but am working on it with some new tech S-glass blanks to try out. Nice to hear you have a favorite rod that's been building memories with you. So, in summary, I guess I'll just have to take those old worm-gear reels out and see how they winch.

Yes... I'd give an LOL but... what I saw when the downrigger craze hit the Great Lakes wasn't all that funny. When angry fishers would come in to the shop and say, "It just broke!" Got to be that when I sold a rod (these were off the rack factory rods) I showed each person how NOT to break a rod. Esp how to pop a release free without folding the rod. Otherwise they were going to leave that shop with an Ugly Stick.