BigEbass

My suspicion is that bass are not all that smart and they are constantly exposed to boat noise, and I think that much of the routine boat noise will have little effect in most cases - but that is just my anectdotal suspicion - having said that, I am sure in certain situations it would absolutely have an effect - the spots up here in smith lake are freakin spooky man sometimes for example.....so who knows, I know I dont

That shallow, Im not sure that you need it or want it. In less than 5' of water I always turn my transducers off. I am convinced that fish can hear/sense sonar pings. If I am trying to be stealthy, make quiet movements, gently flipping my bait in with little to no splash, why would I have something ticking away under my boat? Same with my bilge, I make sure that its not going to turn on when I am in a quiet situation. If you must know your depth and bottom type, dip your rod tip in and feel for it. I can only see the side scan being useful in scouting trips just to map whats there, but would turn it off when actually fishing. Why not scout the 2-5' water though too then? There are large flats for example that will likely have some isolated cover that will hold fish more so - or patches of weeds, or a weedline I can identify and work - I agree though that it will not be necessary WHILE fishing for sure as much - for me the unit is purely to find the spots and the spot on spot and to then fish it - to shorten my learning curve to learn structure/cover details of a lake more easily to my advantage - knowing structure/cover details in 2-5' could I would think give a definate edge - now if its very clear water, then that would be silly yea, but in most of my home waters, you cannot see then bottom in more the 2 feet of water mostly. I will have to do more research about the ping sound issue - we catch plenty of bass down here all the time and my neighbor leaves the sonar on the whole time - perhaps it attracts the bass

It would seem we have reached an endpass IMO On the one hand hooligan presents some data that would be a source of concern. On the other hand, we have heard from folks like mattlures who deal with these giants really regularly it would seem - also I recently joined BBZ and all of those guys verticle hold at times it would seem including Bill Siemantel - although I dont think they torque the Jaw. So alot of anectdotal evidence that is also compelling. I too fish local private pay ponds with my neighbor regularly and have never seen one of or any of those fish die, and if they did I would think at least they would float to the top? I can totally understand Hooligan's concern and if there is certainty about his concern then I will do whatever it takes - actually I did not know about the net studies, I prefer to net my bigger fish to avoid injury to myself and to avoid losing it at the boat - so that was good to know. But am I not going to hold my fish anymore vertically....I am left conflicted here I suppose - usually I do not hold anectdotal evidence to the highest level, but if holding them this way caused a significantly greater mortality, I cannot see how that would be so frequently missed by the entirity of the fishing community? Perhaps I am naive, but that point seems compelling.... But I will keep an open mind Hooligan and I appreciate your thoughts and concerns

Hey, now we are talkin Thanks for your testimonial man!

get it hooked up to power...then during start up at some point you will press menu and choose the simulator mode and you can preview the maps all you want - I know I have too dude - my setup is sittting ready in my garage since 2 nights ago and guess what....I aint gonna be able to get it out there till NEXT weekend AHHHHHHHHHHH :'(

Great - thanks for the pointers - but why forget the tube bait? Does anyone else on here use and/or had sucess with the big tubes - I know in Bill S's book BBZ he used em?? On a related question too - smith lake nearby has some big striper too - will these swim baits sort of be a dual species lure for big bass and striper ?? that would be sweet - could catch big fish of multiple species perhaps

But have they done a mortality study in using this weighing method - would that not hypothetically do more damage to their protective layer - putting them in a bag? Just a thought - you could be absolutely right - if so I will take more caution....

Hmm, good question - we shouldnt weight them

I started fising out of my canoe for a short stent - I used a 30 lb thrust minkota - I simply bolted it right on the side of the canoe and hooked it up to an optima blue top..... Having said that, I dont recommend this setup exactly. You need to buy or make an appopriate bracket to hook the trolling motor on and lock the trolling motor in the loose position in case you hit something it will simply lift up and backwards - with my previous rig up, if I hit something god know what would happen - damage my canoe, the trolling motor, or sink my dumb butt I am not an expert on batteries, I just bought the blue top cause my neighbor suggested it - I use it now in my bass boat for my trolling motor - it never gives in for me - just on a very windy day if I use it alot it pushes its limits - but in the canoe it would absolutely never run out - having said that, you may suffice perhaps with some more basic smaller batter perhaps? Others will make a better recommendation perhaps.... Good luck, have fun....

I presume something like the 6 inch swimbait will be a good starting point....am I best to just stick with a few of these swimbaits to start with or try these big tubes as well - again, not sure under what scenario I would use one over the other exactly, but I presume I will have to see what works in my local water..... So many questions - if you guys could care less, feel free to ignore....otherwise all of your help is mucho apreciated!

"There is so much info out there it is very difficult to know what is bad and what is good. Guys like to sound like they know what they are talking about so you still need to question everything you read or hear." That is always my concern online when reading of course....I do however want to learn the generalaties that will definately apply to any newcomer to swimbaits and other big baits to avoid absolute pit-falls that I may not even be aware of...with the time that I have, I want to use it as smartly as possible obviously. Also, no one has mentioned these big tube baits....are they suggested by you all really - everyone has mentioned swim baits primarily....

That makes sense - I was not sure if a more "experienced" angler would be a better candidate to then take on big baits. I suppose in my case it will be more difficult to take both learning my lake with big baits as well as gaining experience and confidence with big baits - but I think it will be worth it perhaps?? So what you are saying matt is that what conditions I choose NOT to use these tactics simply has to be verified by my experience alone for the most part? I will keep reading and researching for the next month or so while I save and get my gear, we can keep talking about this - one of you folks suggested thebbz.com as well as a good resource.... 1 in 4 chance of getting a 10 + lber - god man - I am freakin sold - perhaps those odds may not necessarily exist on my home waters? But there is only one way to find out for sure right...... On a simliar question about clear water vs. less clear water regarding getting needed feeback from the fish...in my home waters the clarity down here is not that fantastic most of the time (depending on the location), although lewis smith lake has some really clear areas - I mention this cause even if I dont catch fish, seeing a giant follow will be awesome - but if I cant see a follow, it will be that much less feedback - how important is this feedback in progressing? I imagine that if fish are following, I may not see them at all many times, and then I think I am getting no where - I guess I will just have to remain vigilant in the beginnings.

If that big bass in my phot ended up dying because of my handing I would be sad

I have only caught a couple bass over 5 lbs so far in my first 2 years of fishing - I had not really thought a whol lot about this when handling my fish, I hold them vertically - what I had seen on fishing shows and I believe in Homer Circle's book was advice to support their weight more so if they are bigger....If there is a true science to this showing higher mortality with catch and release bass I will gladly alter my handling as needed. I try not to touch the bass very much in general - I had read somewhere that their protective coating is important as well....so is there some scientific consensus on how we should do things? Thanks everyone!

Alright, thats enough gale, your pissin me off

Dont get me wrong, I am not trying to say I will simply thrown one of these baits sporadically in any given direction without any regard for all of these issues - I just am trying to decide if throwing these baits at humps, drop offs, points, creekbeds, etc...instead of my usual offerings or to what extent of my time I will do so - I am really just trying to figure out exactly how this big bait tactic will fall into my current fishing, taking into account all that has been discussed and the fact that I have only been fishing for a couple years so far....I am an open book still yet...

The question was posed to Bill Siemantel and Mike Jones (the coauthor of the BBZ). If there is one thing I should know about throwing swimbaits what is it? The answer: When not to throw them. What Siemantel advocates is not letting the weather,the moon phase or any other condition dictate weather or not you go fishing. I do not think he rules out the effect a particular condition can have. The BBZ motto is everything matters yet nothing matters. The more you fish big baits the more you will see big fish defy traditional thinking. They get big for a reason. Strange that their book (BBZ) doesnt mention when NOT to throw them - at least I do not recall that section. Pardon my mispeak - I didnt mean to ignore weather - but they both (KVD and siemantel) agree it is overplaid by people I think - that is that people plan outings by weather conditions. BBZ did not go into alot of detail about weather conditions effects on bass locations really - although I suppose Siemantel takes it into consideration, as would I if needed. Although KVD's book as I recall seemed to state that after a cold front for example, you just might still catch em in the exact same spot you did the day before - but sometimes perhaps not. After reading BBZ, my impression about locating bass was simply to get to know all the structure and fish the entire water column on these likely bass hangouts till you hookup and establish a "milk run"??? How much do I know my own lakes....not intimately for sure - until this year I had mostly tagged along with my more experienced neighbor who knows the areas of the lakes pretty well - vs me - I barely know my way around at this point - I have now this year gotten out a few times on lay lake and found the fish - but certainly I am in the phase very much of learning and searching out these key structure - spots - and spot on spot locations - I just bought the HB 998 and got contour maps with it so I will be planning my outings from here on out and paying close attention to structure, cover, and if I find fish etc... Point is I still am a newB and a part of my question that I left out for all of you more experienced folk is to ask simply if going to swimbaits in my situation will be skipping ahead - I figured its just another type of bait that I will learn to use and get the feel for and if applied and used in the right conditions (which I am still not quite clear on really) I hope to catch the big uns....

Encouraging to hear - although as I said, I am really not sure yet of the "conditions" that will work or not work for big baits....perhaps Bill Murphy's book will allude to this - or perhaps you all just mean on the water experience will dictate...

Love the matrix reference - call me neo man 8-) - now if only you could just plug that wire into my brain and I would already have the knowledge and skill ;D Although somehow I think it would then lack the luster and specialness - I put 7 years of hard work into becoming a healthcare professional - I will use that same dedication to catching big bass - of course it will be purely for my personal enjoyment!! On that note - I dont have a friend to fish this with - my neighbor is my only fishing buddy - somehow I dont meet many people my age who fish like a mad man all day like I enjoy doing - perhaps I need to join some bass club locally or something I dont know....It would be nice to meet someone either to mentor me in this area or to take on the challenge with me - but I imagine finding people in my area to do what it takes in these beginning months or year or so - that is to get skunked a bunch perhaps IN THE BEGINNING - they may not want to do that - I will have to go all lone wolf, which I am cool with - I still will fish with my neighbor, but he already has little interest in this area - but he may ride with me on days while I am learning I am sure

That is pretty much what I understood to be true after reading Bill S's book, but I think the one thing left to fill in in your statement is back to the extent of catching less that people can expect from using these baits - Bill S states with time you will still get numbers just more numbers of say 3 lbers instead of 1 lbers - others that have responded on here say they still catch good numbers and not skunked entirely at that (of course there will be a learning curve I suppose) - but I suppose use of traditional tactics will produce great numbers though overall, or else these big bait tactics would be a staple on the tournament circuit. And as others have suggested I suppose there are conditions where the big baits will not produce regularly, although at this point after reading Bill S's book, I am not sure of what conditions exactly those are or what lakes exactly - that I suppose I will learn with experience.... If 1-2 bass on an outing is a typical slow day for big baits I am willing to sacrifice my 20 dinks in a day, especially if I put multiple 7 or 8 + lbers in my boat every year, even dd bass , which I have yet to catch - but have a great desire to do so - once I caught my recent big one (again I have no idea of weight) - a light turned on - now I want more baby more

After reading Siemantels book, I realized that there might be alot of people that make this "false assumption" and wanted to hear from some real people tossing these baits across the US.... On a related note, Siemantel did not give alot of play to the idea that location will matter all that much - basically said it will work everywhere. He definately could care less about weather patterns in his book - I simply fish when I can rain, sleet, or snow - and he advised in his book to simply fish the best spots (structure as discussed) from top to bottom using his a "one cast concept" to develop a "milk run" - although he did agree weather will have an effect, but he stated it is over played - actually KVD's book blasts that issue too in the beginning as well.... Anyway, you all are providing encouraging thoughts - I feel motivated to do this - we will see how I do - I will likely have to wait a month or so to buy my needed rod/reel and baits - just blew my wod on the 998 - which will help me much more easily find the creek beds, humps, ledges, drop offs, flats, cover, etc. hopefully, then I will cast me some swim baits at prime areas and get to learning the ins and outs and the feel of the baits and develop the "finess" hopefully needed to entice those fish. I will start with a 6 inch as you stated....perhaps if fish are quite active, it is the time to tie on that mammoth swimbait particularly - we will see - I wonder how many people are actually throwing these baits in my area on say Lay lake, smith lake, and/or logan martin and the like. I also fish some private ponds with my neighbor sometimes....likely may do very good there with one of these swim baits. We will see - even if I fail I can say I tried - but I dont like failure - I am stubborn like that >

I am 26 years old, I plan to fish till I die - I will retire at 55 likely and fish much more, also will fish much more as time passes as I will have more time off from work. The question is I suppose in a different way is do I want to invest the little amount of time I have on the water currently to swimbaits and the like (or at least to some significant degree of my time) to learn them - to have as a tactic - or will the learning curve be too great for me to bear?? It seems to me, the first question I will answer is do these big bait tactics really produce the greatest percentages of big bass - if so, then how couldnt I invest in learning the tactics - although I may tire of it I suppose - but I am stubborn and got alot of willpower and very inquisitive - if I choose to I will stick with it and learn it hopefully - or I will eat big crow later .....we will see... Eye of the tiger ;D

Randall man, thanks so much! Your comments based on your actual experience gives me more confidence to choose my path. I think you cleared up an important issue - that is what is my expectation about how many skunked days I will actually have to put up with - 200 trips and only 5 skunked days - you are a star - but I have to believe if you can do it, I too can learn - and man - it sounds like you land a great number of big ones and that is precisely what I want to do - If I am only skunked 20% of my trips and the other trips I catch these types of fish, I will be very happy and the investment will be well worth it - thanks for the pointers man!!! I may be in contact with you later with further questions!!

I have the "premium" card I believe - I have previewed its details on a couple of local lakes and it is freakin awesome!!! It has 1 foot variable changes in depth on contour and also details like areas of submerged grass or timber, docks, landings, man all kinda crap - I would pull my teeth tomorrow to get out with it !!!

You have no idea how mad I am that I cannot know the weight!!! My neighbor had a measuring tape on him too and he was so excited he forgot he had it on him and never mentioned it - ahhhh - prior to this, I had caught a number of 4-5 lbers (probably 8-9 in the past 2 years since I started fishing) - but on this day I bagged two 5+ lbers back to back - this one I estimate at 7-9 pounds....I am sticking with 7 just to be conservative - I dont know, I was so excited I cannot hardly remember frankly - I thought it best to put her back in the water and get back out there asap - next one could have been a 10 lber - got greedy I guess