Thanks guys! Tons of great information. I'm definitely going to look into a rapala skitter pop, that Big "un mentioned, and the pop pop pop sit(YouTube here I come) technique. Coincidentally, I have a top water frog that I've never tried( well I had two but I was running braid for the first time and I didn't tie the right knot. On the first cast it flew straight off and I just left the other in the box.) I may have to pull that puppy out the box soon.