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68Camaro, thanks for talking with these people. It's just sort of bizarre that these fisheries biologists we have in Virginia are saying hydrilla is bad for the health of water systems. Just sort of unbelievable. EVERY lake that has hydrilla it ends up producing not only giant bass but also many healthy and fat bass. Fishing isn't "easier" because people fish the grass edge. Fishing becomes BETTER because there's so many bass, thanks to the increased amount of baitfish and feeding opportunities. Water clarity always improves. There's decreased erosion in the lake because of the grass growth. The entire food chain benefits from hydrilla. Hydrilla is just a huge canopy with tons of room to swim underneath the canopy. It grows in small clumps and then branches out on top of the water. Anyone familiar with the last 30 years of bass fishing has seen this played out at so many reservoirs. a. A lake has typical fair to decent bass fishing, maybe even good fishing. b. Hydrilla's found in the lake. For the next 5-10 years bass fishing becomes increasingly better until its possibly off the charts, producing new lake and state record fish. b. People have a problem with hydrilla for whatever reason and either kill it off with grass carp or chemical spraying. c. Bass fishing ends up becoming poor to mediocre for as long as the grass carp is in the lake and there's no vegetation. Amazing how some fisheries biologists can disregard all of the evidence that comes from tournament results, websites and other readily available information. Two recent examples include Lake Austin and Lake Chickamauga in Tennessee. Lake Chickamauga was never known as a giant bass fishery until hydrilla was found in the lake several years ago. Now it's an absolutely amazing fishery kicking out many 10-14 pound bass including a NEW STATE RECORD 15.3 pound bass in 2015. The previous state record was set in 1954. More than fifty years ago. This is what the fisheries biologist in Tennessee said: Chickamauga has been producing giant fish in the last several years due in part to TWRA stocking programs and the return of aquatic vegetation."Chickamauga Lake is kind of the perfect storm right now," says TWRA Biologist Mike Jolley. "The habitat aquatic vegetation has done well, and you've got a good forage base. It's a rich environment right now and there's no doubt that the current TWRA stocking program levels out some poor year classes," Link to the article the quote came from: http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/28105648/pending-state-record-bass-caught-on-chickamauga-lake

The Board of Game and Inland Fisheries is meeting on Wednesday, January 17th at 9:00am at 7870 Villa Park Dr. Suite 400 in Henrico, VA if any of you might be interested in trying to make a difference.

Take a look at one of the posts I pulled up from the Texas Fishing Forum. Funny, there's also a reference in this thread about studies done in Texas that say the recommended amount of grass carp for lakes with less than 50% vegetation should be 5 per acre. For a 800 acre lake like Briery Creek, that means 4,000 carp at most. VDGIF decided to completely disregard these studies and recommendations done in a state that takes their bass fishing very seriously and stock three times as much?!? There are many threads in the TexasFishingForum site and AustinBassFishing forum that clearly describe the horrendous impact the grass carp have had on Lake Conroe, Lake Austin and other fisheries in Texas. Those grass carp ate all of the reeds and tules in lake austin. I have no idea how they did that. Even if I was super starving, I doubt I could have choked down a single one of those tough and sinewy reeds or tules. There are pictures in some of the threads in the AustinBassFishing site that show the drastic difference in reeds all along the lake in just one year.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I've never commented on grass carp in Florida. If you want to go and make a separate thread about how happy you are to have grass carp in Florida, by all means, feel free to do so. You, on the other hand, have disparaged my comments which are based on my first hand experiences and observations of what fishing is like before and after grass carp are stocked, both in Virginia and Texas. Again, I would be shocked if there's any vegetation at all left in Briery Creek Lake in two years. Twelve thousand 20 to 40+ pound fish are going to need to eat an awful lot to sustain their body weight. Virginia does not have a year round vegetation growing season. Once the vegetation dies off in the winter or stops growing, there's going to be even less for the carp to eat. And the result is Briery Creek becomes a muddy mess with poor to mediocre fishing for the next 10-20 years. I honestly.... think it's amazing how the original architects of the lake and their vision for how to produce trophy bass which was clearly successful, evidenced by these two 16 pound bass Briery Creek kicked out (and this is absolutely remarkable for a fairly "northern" lake) could have their successful vision and plan so carelessly discarded. Stock 12k grass carp in Briery Creek? Really?! Why?! There's such a tiny, tiny, such a minuscule chance the lake could see any upside from that all. Those grass carp are huge, slimy vegetation eating beasts that just swarm around the lake in massive schools eating everything, often occupying the same shallows and cover that bass use.

I hate saying this but I'm not really sure you're entirely aware about what overstocking a fishery with grass carp can do to the fishery. I'm not sure if you're just trolling or really oblivious to what has happened to several large lakes in Texas. The fishing was magnificent in all of those lakes and fell off a cliff a year or two after the grass carp were stocked and ate all of the vegetation. Maybe you could take the time to read the examples I've posted about what happened to the bass fishing on some of these lakes I've mentioned. I lived fifteen minutes away from Lake Austin at the time it was #4 on the Bassmaster Top 100 lakes (if you're familiar with that list) and people (including myself) were catching giant fish left and right until these grass carp were stocked. People were catching 8-11 pound fish every week and huge limits from 30-35 lbs regularly even in the summer time. There was a new lake record set at 16+ lbs. And now, a five or six pound fish is a significant catch. People only catch 10-15 pound limits. Knowing how destructive grass carp can be and now that there are 12,000 grass carp in tiny Briery Creek Lake, I am going to say that I will not be surprised if there is absolutely zero vegetation in briery creek at all in roughly a year to two years. Those extra 7k carp are small right now but once they mature and grow a little bit, those fish will eventually eat the lily pads and everything else. It takes a lot of grass and food to sustain a 40+ pound fish. Those fish are going to eat everything they can in order to survive. People at Lake Austin have caught them on minnows! The decline with fishing has absolutely nothing to do with these fish being florida strain bass. Those fish were caught regularly before the grass carp were stocked. The carp and the disappearance of vegetation and then the rapid decline in the quality of bass fishing are the only possible answers because that is the exact same situation that has played out on so many other lakes. Nice troll, though!

I think grass enhances spawning flats considerably and in some years with heavy rains, the nests aren’t as visible or easy to pinpoint because they’re so scattered along the vast grass flats instead of being next to wood. That gives all of those big fish an extra spawning cycle or two or three before they MIGHT be caught and possibly taken out of the lake or injured to the point they end up having a shorter lifespan. Maybe I am reaching a little on this but I stand by all of my comments about the destructive nature of grass carp. The entire Colorado River fishery beginning in the Austin, Texas area, all the way down to the gulf may be at risk now. The 40,000 grass carp stocked in Lake Austin beginning in 2013, I believe, have spilled over to the adjacent downstream lake, Lake Lady Bird and in one year or a little more than that, they completely ate all of the vegetation. The fishery has quickly become terrible. The next dam is the last one on the Colorado river, I believe. That’s a 90-100 mile long beautiful and pristine fishery that ends at the mouth of the Gulf of Mexico that has fantastic bass fishing. It may not be the same for a long time if history is any indication of what massive grass carp stockings can bring about.

The behavior of those giant grass disrupts the entire ecosystem. They swim everywhere and continually push fish out of areas they’re comfortable with. They don’t have any predators. Think about it. Giant bass and other fish and animals, bears for example, become huge because they find comfortable feeding zones and coexist with the other fish or animals easily. Those grass carp eventually grow to z 40-50-60 pounds and bull through everything, eating everything they can suck into their throats after the grass is long gone. 12,000 grass carp in tiny 800 acre Briery creek which was at 40% vegetation before the most recent stocking of 7,000 additional grass carp is just unbelievable. 40% vegetation is an extremely healthy number. Tons of feeding zones and hiding places for bass. Now that’s gone. Bass fishing just became a lot easier for a lot of people especially during the spring when they’re in predictable and vulnerable positions. 75% of the fishermen were going there for Bass. The lake grew two 16 pound bass and there are many fabled Texan reservoirs that only have a 15 pound bass as their lake record like Choke Canyon, Ivie, Falcon and many others Briery Creek was a thriving lake. It probably just needed to cycle through a few years of low fishing pressure and two or three years of low and rising water levels and then we might be surprised to find that we have someone that finally got a 17-18 pound bass out of that lake. How was this plan approved? It’s really sort of unbelievable. A tiny farm and nutrient rich lake in aptly named Farmville designed for trophy bass is on its way towards being destroyed by our fisheries department. I think all of you guys that that are involved with bass clubs in Virginia need to take a stand against this. So it doesn’t keep on happening to other lakes.

Several DDs, all in Texas.

You're probably seeing common carp in your lakes which are very different from grass carp. Common carp are not a nuisance at all. They don't uproot and eat every shred of vegetation in the water system. With grass in the ecosystem, everything thrives. From the bottom of the food chain, the small baitfish have increased cover to hide in. The water becomes more filtered and clearer, which allows bass to hunt more effectively, by sight instead of just by sound or their lateral lines. The bass end up having tons of ambush points all along grass lines which makes them very efficient predators. The water has increased oxygen content. Barren mile long mud flats become prime hunting grounds. Once grass carp are stocked, they're just giant bullies in the water, plowing through everything, stirring mud up, eating everything in sight. Once the grass disappears, they'll eat whatever else's in the water, regardless of whether that's the lily pads, reeds or tules, or whatever you call them, until the water's completely devoid of cover. This has happened in every body of water grass carp has been stocked in. From Lake Conroe in Texas, to Lake Austin, which was the #4 fishery in the Bassmaster Rankings in 2012 or right around that. People were catching 30-35 lb. limits regularly during the summer time 3 hour long evening tourneys, (key words: summer time three hour long tourneys) it would almost always take 28-35 lbs to win. At least one or two 10-11 lb. fish would always be brought in, too. The lake record was set during that time with a 16.03 lb giant. Now, people are lucky to catch 12-15 lb bags. A 5-6 lb fish is now considered a good catch. Funny... Va DGIF did this to Lake Anna, too. Any of you remember the massive fish and bags that used to come out of Anna in the 80s and early 90s. People thought Anna was going to produce the next state record. I think the biggest fish that came out of Anna was a very respectable 14.4 lbs and that was when Anna was a very young fishery, too. And then they stocked grass carp that ate all of the hydrilla. And now 12-15 lb limits with a 5-6 lb. kicker is something to get excited about. Does anyone want to share this thread with anyone in Va. DGIF. This is just tragic. Absolutely tragic. Roughly 12,000 grass carp in that tiny 800 acre reservoir... It's never going to be a trophy fishery again. Just unbelievable they would want to do this to a small and remote body of water that once drew people from hundreds of miles away for the chance to catch a giant. I mean.... the lake kicked out two 16 pound bass. That's amazing for Virginia. A lot of amazing and historic lakes in Texas don't even have a 16 pound bass as the lake record. Briery Creek was obviously on the right track. Why would Va. DGIF disregard all of the evidence that shows stocking grass carp absolutely destroys the bass fishing in that body of water. It's absolutely incomprehensible...

I grew up in Virginia but have lived in Texas and California for the last 10+ years. I recently became curious about how Briery Creek was doing because it kept on knocking on the door for the Virginia largemouth bass state record and falling just slightly short with two 16 pounders that needed an ounce or two to break the old record of 16.4 pounds from Lake Conner. And I simply.... simply could not believe my eyes when I read that the Va. DGIF stocked 4,800 grass carp in the lake in 2008 and then followed that up with 7,000 more grass carp last year. Report: https://www.dgif.virginia.gov/wp-content/uploads/2008-Briery-Creek-Biologist-Report.pdf Why? Why? There has never, ever been anything good to come out of stocking grass carp in a lake. Never. The report in the link states that 75% of the fishermen fish Briery Creek for bass. Then it explains that they think that by stocking grass carp they hope to increase the amount of phytoplankton in the lake and control macrophytes which might stimulate bait fish growth. No, no... this is just unbelievable. There are so many, many case studies to use as evidence. Every time grass carp is stocked in a lake, all of the grass disappears and the fishing ends up becoming terrible in two or three years. Having as much grass as possible in a lake is never a bad thing. It's just tons of oxygen and cover, especially with hydrilla which is probably the #1 thing you could hope for in a lake. This is just unbelievable... it's not a lake in a huge metropolitan area with folks in huge lake front homes and huge wake board boats that are complaining about the grass getting in the way of boating and wakeboarding. Briery Creek is a remote lake that was designed to be a trophy bass destination. Grass is a fantastic thing to have in that lake. Grass is so much fun to fish. Grass produces giant bass. The first stocking in 2008 was bad enough. Grass carp usually live around 8-12 years. They would've started dying off soon, but to restock the lake with even more grass carp... Why? Really heartbreaking. I feel bad for all of you guys that live near the lake.

The hot side is.... ok. Its mostly a bunch of small fish between 1 and 3 lbs with the occasional 5-8 lb fish mixed in but those are generally far and in between. The main lake's a lot more fun and I've almost always fished the main lake year round. Virginia has mild winters. Quite rare for the lake to become iced over to the point where you can't launch, and if that does happen, it's only in the coves and the ice never lasts for more than a week, really. And yes, you'll be closer to most of the "stuff" around the lake if you're on the main lake instead of the hot side.

Thanks, appreciate all of the suggestions. Yep, I noticed that ML article earlier. Pretty interesting approach he takes with the baitcasting equipment and that 14-16 lb. line he apparently likes for that tactic. I'll continue to think about it for a bit. Just kinda curious about the whole anchoring thing. Never thought I'd have an anchor (let alone two) in my boat, but the more I fish the little lakes in san diego, the more I think I can see the benefits of using an anchor.

I've been thinking about trying stitching worms for some time now along the lines of how Bill Murphy approached it, with a single size 5 or 7 split shot. I've never been too crazy about using spinning tackle and fluoro line. I know, there's a few tricks in regard to making fluoro more manageable on spinning reels, I'm just not a generally big fan of using spinning tackle unless I absolutely have to. Let me add that I've always enjoyed power fishing and I've never really had to use anything smaller than a 200 size bait casting reel, especially living in texas for several years before moving to san diego about a year and a half ago. So what I'm wondering is for you guys that stitch worms, how are those size 50 baitcasters working for you? I would probably put that on a Loomis IMX MBR 843 and use 10 or 12 lb. fluoro. Or are there still undeniable advantages with using spinning tackle as far as casting distance's concerned? Would the same Loomis blank I mentioned above, the IMX SJR 843 still be a good choice for a spinning stitching rod or do you guys prefer something a little longer, in the 7'2 to 7'6 range since this rod's only 7'? Could you recommend a couple of ideal rods? Would the typical 3000 size spinning reel be a good choice or do I probably need something with a bigger spool? Just not really a fan of anything bigger than the 3000 reels since that's when they start getting pretty heavy. I like daiwa when it comes to spinning reels. The new black colored Procyon feels pretty great. Thanks, really appreciate any/all input you can share! Bill Murphy fished with very different tackle back then and it's difficult to compare what he fished with with all of the other choices we have today.