Thank you, Wayne I really appreciate the help. I was going to get a fish finder today, but because of a mishap with walmart (yet again) it looks like I'm going to have to wait until next week. I am going to use your advice on a large watershed that I have fished many times with my father and know the contour pretty well. It seems that a fish finder is almost a necessity to be successful at briery. I have been reading all the forums I can find about briery and one name always comes up with a wealth of knowledge. Thank you for passing on so much helpful information Wayne P.