alwayshungry

@A-Jay & K_Mac: thanks for welcoming me to the forum! - I came here to soak up all of the information I can about bass fishing, was perusing the list of forums, and stumbled upon this conversation Since I know way more about firearms than fishing, I thought it would serve as an instant opportunity to try and share what I know and start contributing/adding value to the forums I have been quietly lurking around here for a few weeks and the breadth of bass fishing info that is being shared by the forum members, in a very generous and friendly way, as well as the other resources on the site, have taught me so much in my brief existence in this community - the atmosphere is so relaxed!! spending time reading the invaluable experience that is being so freely shared by the members is becoming a wonderful diversion from everyday life for me - because the members here are so kind, spending a bit of time each day reading is rather cathartic I only hope to be able to contribute to the fishing side of things in the near future

profiency with your weapon (as well as familiarity with it), training, practice, and steely nerves/the ability to do what needs to be done with shaky hands, racing heart, and heavy breathing inherent to having to kill another human being are what will ultimately determine the outcome of your encounter with a baddy…regardless of your firearm However, unless you have been in combat or have actually experienced shooting at someone/someone shooting at you, having the correct firearm and ammo will help tip the scales in your favor ANY "gun guy" who has educated himself about all firearm types (handgun, shotgun, rifle), ammo types, along with the ballistic sciences behind why each ammo does what in each firearm WHEN IT IS USED AGAINST HUMANS/ANIMALS/A PROPER REPRESENTATION OF SUCH, would never use birdshot to save theirs and their families lives there is tremendous responsibility inherent in being a gun owner - especially if you intend to use it to save yours or someone else's life - it goes way beyond keeping it out of your kids hands or the folks living with you Yes, even if you can apply my first paragraph to yourself, there is always a possibility of a stray round finding it's way to the wrong target - it's the law of probability - but the more you prepare for the moment, the lower the probability that your bullet will cause unintended damage it's pretty simple actually…you do not fire your weapon unless you are supremely confident that a missed shot will not end up speeding towards your child's bedroom or through your front windows and across the street Again, I'm not trying to say that well trained, experienced shooters do not make mistakes/miss their target - but just like driving defensively, using your safety indicators, not getting distracted, avoiding drugs/alcohol, and applying intelligence and common sense while driving, it is of utmost importance to those inside and outside of your vehicle that you do everything in your power to drive safely - can you still have an unknown force/situation force you to have an accident? - of course - everyone knows there is great risk to driving but it's ok to take that risk as the ends justify the means if you have a firearm and believe you have it in you to fire it at another human in self defense, then, if educated, you know very well that if you shoot, you shoot until you stop the threat - also, you had better know the laws in your area regarding using deadly force for the educated gun guy, shots fired in self defense are aimed at the center of mass (upper torso to belly button) - you should NEVER EVER shoot to wound or try to shoot the perp in the knee or make a video game headshot - aiming at these targets will seriously increase your chances of missing, will most likely get you killed for your efforts your goal should be to put as many rounds as possible into the center of mass until your baddy no longer presents a threat - Google the FBI studies on typical self defense distances - what they discovered was that, in most cases, the majority of agents/police/etc can JUST draw their weapons and get off enough rounds to stop an approaching attacker from reaching them if the baddy is ~ 7 yards/21 feet away when he starts towards them - on average, the time needed to cover the 21ft distance was about 3 seconds, give or take the people on here who think a watermelon's or plywood's reaction to birdshot are indicative of how it will work on a human with elastic skin, layers of clothing, viscous body fluids, thick muscles, and bones are delusional and scarily uninformed I've killed just about every game bird on earth with my 12 gauge loaded with birdshot and not one of them were knocked off course - in my youth, I've fired my 12 gauge at dead birds that were too shot up to harvest that were laying on hard dirt - the softness of the little birds body EASILY absorbed the energy of the full load and barely rolling 1/2 way over (from on their back to on their tummy ) - I've had to fire 3 or more rounds of birdshot at 15 yards to stop a South Texas jackrabbit on several occasions....with a tight choke in the barrel those here that think a shotgun with ANY load will make a "fist sized hole" in a human target or who speak of ANY round "knocking down" a human target are the type of gun owners who make me very nervous (as I'm vigilant in doing what I can to protect theirs and my rights to bear arms) - they could also benefit greatly by acquiring even an elementary grasp of basic, fundamental physics if launching a 165 grain projectile almost instantly from 0 - 900 ft/sec (640mph) doesn't knock the shooter down, what makes you think, even if the projectile could slam it's energy into their whole body at once, that the guy on the receiving end is going to be "knocked down" back to your goal of stopping the threat - in the majority of situations, given the laws regarding justified use of deadly force and the proper action being defined as delivering your shots to the part of the body that CAN cause the damage needed to disrupt enough bodily functions to stop a motivated attacker who will be stabbing you in the throat within seconds of your encounter, you should be shooting with the intent to kill your attacker ASAP a birdshot flesh wound, while spectacular to behold, WILL NOT stop the threat within your 2-3 second timeframe - and in the vast majority of cases, will not stop the threat at all - throw fear, adrenaline, anger, bad intentions, motivation, self preservation instinct, and the desire to kill you before you kill him, and you will most assuredly wish, in short order, that you and your loved ones had a proper, penetrating type of ammo on hand on the day you failed to make use of your luck in being able to get off any shots the ONLY WAY to effectively and reliably stop the threat is to disrupt the bodily functions needed for someone to be a threat to you - heavy internal bleeding/hemorrhaging, damage to vital organs/spinal cord, broken/shattered bones, etc. - in order for this to happen, you HAVE to have penetration - this means your projectile must go in the body, travel 6"-15", hitting squishy stuff and smashing bones as it's moving inside the target, and preferably, dumping all of it's energy in the target and creating a wound channel, disrupting other vitals in its vicinity to those who understand ballistics and the science behind why certain types of ammo do what they do, it is universally understood that birdshot, no matter the shell size/length or the gauge of the shotgun or amount of powder propelling it or the range to the target, will not penetrate enough to disrupt vitals and cause the subsequent internal damage necessary to achieve the desired effects In a relatively slow moving handgun round or buckshot out of a shotgun, the damage is caused by the projectile deforming and flattening as it penetrates - soft lead buckshot will deform and move in different directions once inside the body, tearing your baddy' insides up and rendering him physically unable to keep trying to kill you - a hollow point handgun round almost doubles it's diameter and stops suddenly in the body, dumping it's energy and avoiding over penetration/keeping the bullet from simply poking a 9mm hole in your baddy/traveling farther than needed, thus protecting innocent people a rifle round traveling 2-3 times faster than a shotgun round or handgun round, practically explodes into to sharp pieces of lead and copper and very rapidly changes direction/slams it's energy into the body - heavier rounds and purpose built bullets will, most times, pass through a human or an animal - but lighter rounds like a 55-70grain bullet from the common 5.56/.223 shot out of most ar-15's will rarely leave the body when center of mass is struck - because of over penetration, most large rifles are not considered to be a good choice for self defense, although a properly trained and equipped person can certainly employ a rifle in self defense with devastating effect for those watching some numbskull on YouTube shooting birdshot at plywood thinking that it equals what birdshot will do in the human body, please check your sources - I can fire magnum loads with 240grain Speer golddot hollow points out of my .44magnum at 1400fps at plywood all day and not one round will do anything more than poke a small hole in it - same goes for my 30.06 with 165grain lead with copper jacketed hollow point rounds at 3000fps However, I'll fire either gun at a small South Texas whitetail and they'll both "stop the threat" instantly when I hit him center of mass - same with buckshot - however, with birdshot, he'll receive a non-life threatening skin wound and simply run off Find a reliable source of factual and scientific information, stop buying into lame videos made by people who are both unprofessional and unscientific in their testing, Wiki ballistics, research and view actual gunshot wounds, and question 99% of the nonsense that Hollywood puts in movies to sell tickets, and then you can speak intelligently on the subject and not damage the efforts of those of us who spend and fight to preserve your rights to own that gun alwayshungry