I am setting up  a spiral wrapped casting rod and have a question.  I did a static test and with a heavy load (this is a moderate action rod that bends all the way to the handle) the line makes a straight path from the top guide through the 90 degree guide then through the center of the next guide and finally touches the 3rd guide.  I hope i am explaining this  OK.  My problem is there is about 17 inches between guides that the line touches under these conditions.  Is this a problem or am I just over thinking it??  :-?  I have had all the guides wrapped on twice and cut them off to try different sizes and spacing it doesn't make much difference.  I am getting plenty of wrapping practice.  

The ice is finally melting up here and I am going to want to go fishing soon. Any suggestions are appreciated.  

I assume you are setting up a bumper (simple spiral) right? Give a little more info... what blank and guides are you using? what is the distance to the butt guide from the front of the reel? and then the distance to the bumper and #2 and #3 guides. You may actually need to move the #3 guide further out, to get the #2 to carry some load or move the bumper and #2 out some... each rod blank is different, even the same models... I bought 3 of the same blanks and if you stand them up side by side, they are all spaced out different and one even needed an extra guide. (but that is what it took for proper line angles throughout the load range) ...lol

I had one like that where I couldn't get the #2 guide to carry any weight after hours of jacking with it... I finally decided to leave it and field test it so I left it alone, since I would lose drag long before it became a problem. (I haven't had any troubles yet and I have fished it pretty hard.) On all the others I was able to shift the guides around and remedy the situation. I found that with a bumper it helps to use a lower butt guide and #2 to lessen the angles and carry weight. Each rod has had it's own unique needs... which is something that doesn't get addressed on factory rods.

One other tip, use masking tape to hold the guides on (except the tip, attach it) while static testing, that way you can move them around quickly & easily and you will not be tempted to leave them "close enough" to where they need to be since they are already wrapped. ...lol

Hi Flechero

Here are some more details. St Croix SC3 MH moderate action 6' 6"

Butt guide is 20" from the reel face ( i have moved that back and forth an inch or so in each direction) Guide #2 is 10" from the butt with the bumper in the middle at 5". Guide #3 is 7" from guide #2 I have moved this between 5 and 9 inches. I started out with CLNAG 12, 8 (bumper) 10 then CLAG 8 and 6s to the top. I had this all set to apply finish but ended up not quite satisfied with the transition under heavy load. (I don't know what I am thinking a 5 lb fish up here is big but I do get into a pike or 2 every year that go over 10 lbs) I cut off the bottom 3 guides amd moved them around some and got to the point where I figured good enough. I put the rod away for a week while on vaction (no finish yet) When I got back I was ready to go at it again.

I changed the butt guides to a CLNAG 10, 7 (bumper) 8 then CLAG 7 and 6s to the tip. This was quite a bit better I then changed the CLAG 7 to a 6 and that is a little better.

So that is where I am CLNAG 10, 7 ,8 and CLAG 6s to the tip. I am thinking I may be at the point where it is as good as it is going to be but I thought I would ask here to see if I am making some rookie mistake.  

The guides are tied on with pieces of rubberband for testing.  My problem is I can't leave it alone after I wrap them.  I didn't finish any of the wraps yet so removing the ones I did isn't that big a deal.

Thanks for the feedback ;D

vtbassin,

Here is another tip. If this is your first spiral setup. Set up the rods guides as a conventional (over top), static test and get the spacing that way. Then just turn the guides over and between the 0° bumper and the first 180° running guide measure the distance and place the bumper guide half way in between. You should have a good set up at that point.

Another tip if you are using a #10 guide as the stripper guide and running #6's to the tip, make your bumper one size larger than the #6 running guides to the tip, like a #7.

One more tip goto your nearest hobbie shop, and pick up some 1/8" inside dia. rubber fuel line and cut small bands from it and use those to set your guides, for static and cast testing, but don't wrap the guides until your satisfied with the setup.

If you keep wrapping the guides and cutting them off your more likely going to make a mistake and nick the blank with the blade and then wrap up the rod, and first time it is flexed under an actual load, it will snap and sound like a gun going off. Also when you do the final wrap don't wrap to tight.

Have Fun and Tight Wraps!  

ReelMech,

Thanks for the tips.  I have read about setting up the rod like you would for a guides on top set up.  I wonder about that because if I were going to use guides on top I think I would use a little taller guide.  These very small and low frame fugis would need more guides on top to keep the line from touching the bank.  My lack of experience is showing here I think. :-?  

I think I am closer now with the smaller guides in the transition area.  I will play with the spacing a little more and then wrap it, finish it and fish it. ;D  Hopefully I will catch a huge bass to put it to the test!

OK check your spacing against this setup. It was done on a 3C66MHM.

Starting from the tip,

3½, 7.0, 11.0, 15.0, 19½, 24½, 30.0, 36.0, (bumper) 42.0, 48.0

Make sure on all of your single foot guides that you use the Forhan Locking Wrap for more security.

Tight Wraps!  

Reelmech, I was hoping you would jump in, I haven't built any mod action blanks.

vtbassin,

One thing I forgot to mention before... this may not help much but may help some.

On every rod I have built so far, I have fiddled with the bumper location and actually gotten better clearance and more load to the #2 guide. In every case the bumper was closer to the butt guide by 1/4" - 1" and rotated slightly (about 5 - 10 degrees) towrds the top. What happens is this: when the rod is under heavy load the bumper will "follow" the #2 guide (since the blank is stronger towards the butt guide) a little bit so moving it closer to the butt and rotated up slightly gives plenty of clearance from butt to bumper and when the bumper follows the #2 guide it will maintain clearance (well past the point of drag being pulled.) That spacing will also help to make up some of the #2 guide's laziness, so to speak. ...lol Where this really helps is when you load the blank and move side to side with it. (I have never fought a big fish straight on the whole time.)

Reelmech's example has the #2 and bumper moved out some from your location, that should cause the #2 to carry some load, or get really close.

One more thing that helped me A LOT when pulling heavy loads. Measure the drag on the reel you will put on that rod.... I found beforeI did that, I was static testing well beyond the max drag I will use on the rod. For example on some of the heavy rods I was putting 10-12 lbs of pressure and having trouble but when I measured the drag for the reel it was to have it was in the 6-7 lb area... I was asking WAY too much from the blank without even realizing it. (and probably got lucky I didn't break one)

And when I think I am done, I mount the reel and hook to a 5 gallon paint bucket and pull (carefully) until I lose drag... keeping an eye on line clearance between butt and #2, just to be sure.

Sounds like you have good patience, most guys would have just finished the rod. You will be glad you went this route... when you hook a monster fish you won't be thinking or worrying about line clearance!!

Let us know what fixes it, I may be in the same boat when I build a crankbait rod and just might remember your answer.

Best,

Keith

Thanks ReelMech

I have been playing with spacing and guide size I ended up with this spacing from the tip,

3 1/2, 7 1/4, 11 3/4, 16 1/4, 21, 25 3/4, 30 1/2, 36, 41 1/2, 47

This is similar to what you suggested and seems to be working. I changed the stripper back to the CLNAG 12 the bumper is a 7 and the first at 180 is an 8. Under a load everyone is carring some of the load.

Flechero

I think you are 100% right I am loading this road more than it will ever be when I have a fish on. I also rotated the bumper a little to about 100 degrees or maybe 110 and moved it just a little towards the butt. As the rod loads the line crossover point (between the 0degree and 180 degree guide) appears to move back towards the butt. Rather than move the bumper back too much I moved it down a few degrees. I was trying to keep the line pushing straight/centered into the blank.

I am going to look at it again in the morning and if I still like it I will wrap it and finish it.

Thanks for the helpful hints from both of you ;D

FAS CI NATING READING!!!!!!!!

Here is how I ended up The spacing is like I listed above.  I ended up moving the bumper 1/4 inch closer to the butt and rotating to about 110 degrees.  I increased the size of the first 4 guides (not the bumper)  so from the butt I have CLNAG12, CLNAG7 (bumper), CLNAG8 (@180), CLAG8, CLAG7, and 6s to the tip.  At first I had all 6s after the 180 guide.  After I changed to the 8 and 7 the line dropped away from the rod blank a little and then the 180 guide started picking up some of the heavy load.  ;D

I haven't started wrapping yet I got busy with other Sunday afternoon things.  There always seems to be a to do list if you know what I mean  :  Next week I should get them wrapped and finished.

Thanks again for all the helpful hints  I think the rod is going to turn out great! ;D

There is something about the ones that are fussy... as it turns out, the hardest rod to figure spacing ended up being my favorite.   I'm sure it has to do with the work put into it and pride of workmanship.  Sounds like an awesome set up!  

Glad I could help!