Hey guys, I finished my test rod guide attachment, threading and color preserver this past weekend and proceeded to add a coat of lite epoxy.  

Everything went ok except for some confusion around the color preserver.  I had two kinds and tried the Gudebrod first and it was thick and lumpy..not a good consistency at all to brush on.  So after one guide I switched to the flex coat.  This seemed to go well. and dried clear.

My problems came with the epoxy.  I stirred it up and got a very clear and bubble free mixture.  I put it on but noticed some very small pin-***** size bubbles.  I remember someone telling me that they used a flame to get the bubbles out.  So I used a 'bic' and low and behold I was making cherries jubilee.    I blew out the flame quickly, but amazingly the bubbles were still there.  I'm wondering if I did something else wrong.    The bubbles seemed persistent.

T1,

You will get a lot of advice about dealing with bubbles, so here's mine. Get yourself a sturdy paper plate and cover it with tinfoil (Renolyds wrap) after you mix your finish, pour it onto the foil and let it flatten out. This will sound crazy, but it works like magic. Open your mouth as wide as you can and exhale your breath over the epoxy a couple of times and 98% of the bubbles will disappear. I thin the first coat of flexcoat and only saturate the wraps with a small brush. Go to flexcoat's website, there are detailed instructions on doing this.Turn it on the drier for a couple of hours and let it set for 24 hours. After the first (light) coat dries for 24 hours, I use a little flat stainless spatula to apply the high build finish because a brush will introduce bubbles. Most times my finish is bubble free, but when I see an occasional bubble I use an alchohol torch and pass it gently under the wrap. If you heat is too much it will thin and run. I have learned to live with an occasional tiny bubble, but if they are big or I can't lose them by heating the finish, I will wash off the finish with alchohol and a brush and it's a do over. I hope this is helpfull to you.

Ronnie

I am 100% against flaming any finish.  It does work perfectly for some people but not many.   There are lots of things that can happen when you flame a finish... and only one of them is goodSo let me tell you what has worked well for me and maybe it will help you.  If you need heat, you can use a hair dryer or a heat gun with a low (200 or so degrees) temp setting.  

As Ronnie said:

Get yourself a sturdy paper plate and cover it with tinfoil (Renolyds wrap) after you mix your finish, pour it onto the foil and let it flatten out. This will sound crazy, but it works like magic. Open your mouth as wide as you can and exhale your breath over the epoxy a couple of times and 98% of the bubbles will disappear.

That is mandatory in my book. (it will also let you know if you have mis measured a batch, the bubble will remain) The only other thing I do while applying the finish is to breath on each wrap as I leave it for the next one.  I don't thin finish, but I use Threadmaster and it's about a middle of the road finish as far as viscosity.

Once I'm finished with all the wraps, I put the rod in the 3 or 6 rpm dryer and get it turning.  Then I grab the heat gun.  Holding the gun about a foot from the guides, low temp heat for one revolution, which will remove any bubbles I missed and also thin the finish as flaming would do without the hazards.  At this point, if I had applied too much finish, it would sag badly on the rotation and I can easily wick the excess, and the remaining finish will re-level almost instantly.  If I had the correct amount on there, the sag will be minimal and will level back out in a minute or so.  

Let it turn a few hours and try not to disturb it... or the air in the room... nothing more agravating than dust in your perfectly finished wrap.   >  For that reason, I usually apply finish right before bed so I can shut the door to that room and close the A/C vent to keep things calm while finish sets overnight.

There are as many ways to do this as there are rodbuilders... it will just take a little practice to figure the routine that best suits you.

A wooden dowel from the hardware store is a cheap way to practice this stuff.  

T1,

This will sound crazy, but it works like magic. Open your mouth as wide as you can and exhale your breath over the epoxy a couple of times and 98% of the bubbles will disappear.

Ronnie

I hope you're not at home lieing on the floor laughing at the thought of me with mouth wide open, breathing on my epoxy...      

But I'll trust you...and give it a try for the second coat.   I'm sure the bubbles are nothing more than cosmetic (they are really small).

I am 100% against flaming any finish.  It does work perfectly for some people but not many.   There are lots of things that can happen when you flame a finish... and only one of them is good

Yes, I found that out.  Maybe I should change my handle to firestarter...  ;D

T I usually apply finish right before bed so I can shut the door to that room and close the A/C vent to keep things calm

Hmmm, air conditioner.  You must be a southerner...only heat comes out of our vents.   :   Wait, we don't have vents..we have radiators.

Seriously, thank you for the help, I have a heat gun that I'll try..

Hmmm, air conditioner. You must be a southerner...only heat comes out of our vents. Wait, we don't have vents..we have radiators.

97 degrees today in Belton... still have the A/C running nonstop.

Well, your post inspired me to finish one tonight. I had one rod ready and one that I wrapped today so I went ahead and finished my new CTS worm rod tonight with Threadmaster. I'm angry though... after typing that response, I FORGOT to shut the vent!!!! > Yup, already have dust in the finish abnd it's only been turning for 30 minutes! Oh well, I may make this one a 2 coater... normally I opt for just one coat but I might sand a little put a very light 2nd coat on it.

Experiment on a scrap dowel or something to see how much heat your finish will take and how quickly it thins out... that's good info to have AHEAD of a rod finishing session!!

This is a great thread. But I think there is a problem with the definition of the flaming technique of the finish here.

When I first started building I tried a hair dryer and didn't like the way it always through dust and particles from out of the baffle.

flechero, if you have dust coming from the AC vents, it is time to change out the filter and have the ducts cleaned out...

I also tried the exhaling method on the wraps, but as a smoker on long 10 guide rods, you can pass out trying to get all those bubbles to re-lease....LOL  

One thing I did learn was not to stir the finish but to fold it using a non-porous round stirring stick. Now I use a mixer that I built using the article in the RodMaker Mag Volume 6 #4, and get bubble free mixes every time. The other thing I learned was not to brush the finish on, but to fill the brush and lay the tip on the wrap and let the rod turning pull (wick) the finish from the brush.

Some builders like to use the spatula method.

I use an alcohol burner loaded with denatured alcohol (been using it since I started building).

The term flaming the finish is probably wrong, actually you are supposed to be just heating/warming the finish. Never place a flame onto the finish as it will ignite and boils.

When I warm my finish, the burners wick is trimmed so that my flame is only about 1/4" tall, using denatured alcohol, it gives off a cooler flame than rubbing alcohol. When I heat the finish it isn't directly under the finish either as it will cause a sag that if it hits the flame will ignite and cause problems with the burner.

So I pass the flame as low as I can get it away from the finish, and slightly in front of the finish, moving back and forth parallel to the finish. When it is warm enough the finish will sag if there is to much on, and this sag I will wick away with the finish brush, any excess finish trying to run up the guide frame from the wrap will be wicked away with a tooth pick quickly.

Just my .02¢

Tight Wraps!!!

flechero, if you have dust coming from the AC vents, it is time to change out the filter and have the ducts cleaned out...

Yup, you're right about that.  Been doing a bunch of remodeling this year so even with a clean filter and ducts, the dust in the area stirs up.  (haven't had the ducts cleaned yet though)

But I think there is a problem with the definition of the flaming technique of the finish here.

Agreed... many people do not know that you only get close, for heat... the flame is never supposed to touch.

I don't worry about bubbles from mixing, because when I pour it out on the foil and breath, the bubbles disappear.

after my first few attempts at applying epoxy, i "do it all" to keep down bubbles.

i stir in a way as to not induce bubbles -(i've got motor, etc., for stirrer, but, so far, can't find any ball bearings)

i always pour epoxy onto warm aluminum foil - i actually used an alulminum plate for awhile, but, foil is easier to throw away, rather than having to try to clean it each time.

my rods are always turning when i coat them, & after coating each guide, i use a straw to "breathe" on it before going to next one

i also keep an alcohol burner at hand & some times, i'll "wave" it beside the coatings

so far, thankfully, i've been able to coat some pretty "bubble free" rods.

where CAN you find some ball bearings???? LOL

ronnie

Hey justtrying,

where CAN you find some ball bearings???? LOL

If you can't find any ball bearings, go to the sporting goods store and look for some stainless steel sling shot balls (watch out for the flat spots though)...

The next place to try and find some ball bearings would be to try Lowes, I think I read a post on Rodbuilding .org about 1/4, 3/8 1nd 1/2" ball bearings at Lowes.

I did a search on the forum and found the following post....

After seeing several posts about folks trying to find epoxy mixer ball bearings I decided to post a good source for all different sizes.

McMaster-Carr in Atlanta and I think Chicago (Atlanta phone #404-346-7000). Their web site should be easy to find.

They have 302 stainless steel ball bearings in any size you need and they are loose.

In Atlanta, (404) 346-7000. In Chicago, (630) 833-0300 ...

Loose Balls & Mounted Ball Bearings, page 1060 - www.mcmaster.com

I also just remembered a site that my site has a link on..I have used this company to upgrade the bearings in my reels. They also have single bearings in many sizes.

www.bocabearings.com

As far as size goes the one that I have been using is 3/8" dia.

Hope this helps..

Tight Wraps!!!  

Justtrying,

You can get bearings at almost any hardware store... or you can ALWAYS get them at a bike shop... tell them you need some loose bottom bracket bearings.  Even if you have to buy them in a ring, still only a dollar or two any you can pop them out of the ring.

there is a problem with the definition of the flaming technique of the finish here.

Hey David, my problem was operator error for sure and I wasn't trying to imply that I did the right thing.     I knew I wasn't supposed to touch the wrap but while trying to look for bubbles going away and holding the bic, I must have gotten just a tad too close.   :-[

I did a second coat today by pouring into a flat tinfoil tray and then blowing on the epoxy and it seemed to work ok.  I also used a hot air gun before blowing on it and this helped as well.

Thanks for everyones help!

ReelMech hit it right on the head.  If you want to get it as clean and right as possible a mixer is the way to go.  Simple and inexpensive to make, they did detail it in Rodmaker Magazine as before mentioned.  If you have to flame a wrap 99% alcohol in a lamp will do it best. (my opinion) or you can use some of the other rod finishes like glass coat.

SG