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Itheral

HI! I'm new and these are my setups

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Baitcasters

6'10" Daiwa Tatula MH-F - Daiwa HD200 6.3:1 - 55lb Daiwa Samurai Braid - General use baitcaster, heavier lures, non-treble stuff

6'6" Berkley LR Shock M-MF - Pinnacle Performa X 6.2:1 - 12lb Red Label Flouro - Treble hook stuff. Crankbaits, larger jerkbaits, trebled topwater

Spinners

6'6" Abu Garcia Veritas M-F - Shimano Sahara 2500 - 12lb Berkley NanoFil - General use spinner. Smaller jerkbaits, spinnerbaits, etc. Small jigs, lightly weighted or weightless plastics.

6'6" Browning Vectra IM8 M-F - Shimano Solstace 2500 - 15lb PP Super 8 to 12lb Flouro Leader - Almost exclusively a drop-shot rod. Occasional use for very light stuff or panfishing

Also have a spare Abu Veritas 2.0 6'9" MH-F casting rod available to possibly pair up with something new

Notes

1. The Daiwa HD200 is seemingly a much more impressive reel than the Pinnacle despite only being moderately more expensive.
2. The Veritas spinning rod seems much heavier and faster action than the Browning Vectra, so while having identical stats, they act much different fishing them.
3. Similar story with the Veritas 2.0 rod compared to the Tatula that replaced it this year.

Concerns/Questions

1. I'm haven't fished frogs much yet, and none with the new Daiwa setup, but it doesnt seem ideal for that use. Same with heavier jigging (though I rarely do that either). Would it be worth it or advisable to find another reel to pair with the spare Veritas rod for these uses?

2. Should I be using a different combo to throw the other topwater stuff on? Obviously straight flouro isn't ideal for that use, but I'm not sure if any combo would work better

3. Would any of these combos work better with a different line type/weight?

Anyway, thanks for reading and hopefully chipping in! I look forward to any advice anyone may have

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Please allow me to simply welcome you to
bassresource.com. I am mostly a soft plastics
fisherman, but I've fished frogs on occasion.

Others with greater experience in those areas
will chime in soon enough. All the best!

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All right that's a bunch so lets address the Veritas first.  I like and fish 2 Veritas rods.  As you noticed all of the Veritas run heavier than advertised.  That is fine if you use the rod for techniques that match what the actual rod does not what is on the blank.  So I own one 7 foot Veritas MH with a Diawa Tatula Type R. It is fantastic for frogging. I bought the type R to get the 8 to 1 gear ratio. My other Veritas is a 7 ft heavy. That was bought first to frog with and like you I found out it was too stiff.  With a Diawa Tatula 7.3-1 it became my punching and heavy jig rod and it works great. Your Diawa Tatula rod ought to throw jigs  big worms and even carolina rigs fine. I like your reel choice but I would load it with some 30 pound braid  or like 17 pound Halo florocarbon line from P Line.  That stuff is tough.  Save the heavy Samuari braid.

I would keep the Berkley Lightning Shock as is  because they throw treble baits like crankbaits and rattle traps very well.  I would look for a rod like a PowelI Inferno crankbait series 6'10 or an Abu Garcia Ike delay series rod model IKECW64-5 to fish top waters and jerkbaits.  I own one Powell rod (not the model I am suggesting, mine is for jigs) and that exact rod from the Ike series. Think of that rod as a 6-8 rod with a slightly shortened handle to keep from smacking your arm when twitching the bait. Check the Ike rods on youtube where he explains each rod in his signature series. I would pair that up with mono since mono is best for topwater. It will double for jerkbaits okay. Mine has P Line Floroclear but I throw jerkbaits more than top waters.

I prefer a 7 or 71/2 footer for frogs but your 6'9"rod is only 3 inches shorter than mine, you own it and it will work great I am sure. Go get a Diawa Tatula 100 type R in the 8-1. They normally retail for $200 but you can get one for about $130 off Amazon.  The T wing really works nice. Here is where I would re-purpose the Samuari braid.  I would load half of spool of good quality but inexpensive mono or copolymer line  Then spool the braid using a uni to uni knot.  I do that to all of my reels that I run expensive braid on. Frogging is one of the few time I tie directly to a bait. Otherwise I tie on at least 3 foot of leader, most often 10# P Line CXX.  I like the leader setup in order to save the expensive braid when re-tieing lures.  I hope I di not miss anything I know I covered some ground.

 

 

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1 hour ago, fishnkamp said:

I prefer a 7 or 71/2 footer for frogs but your 6'9"rod is only 3 inches shorter than mine, you own it and it will work great I am sure. Go get a Diawa Tatula 100 type R in the 8-1. They normally retail for $200 but you can get one for about $130 off Amazon.  The T wing really works nice. Here is where I would re-purpose the Samuari braid.  I would load half of spool of good quality but inexpensive mono or copolymer line  Then spool the braid using a uni to uni knot.  I do that to all of my reels that I run expensive braid on. Frogging is one of the few time I tie directly to a bait. Otherwise I tie on at least 3 foot of leader, most often 10# P Line CXX.  I like the leader setup in order to save the expensive braid when re-tieing lures.  I hope I di not miss anything I know I covered some ground.

 

 

Thanks for the input! I do already use some old mono I had for backing. Saves a lot of $ that way.. pretty sure my Daiwa would have eaten more than my 150yd spool of 55lb had I not backed it half full.

And I do like how the Veritas 2.0 handles and feels, just wasn't quite right for what I wanted out of a general purpose MH, little too beefy and handle length was a bit long for some things. Thats why I was thinking of pairing it with another reel.

As far as your reel suggestion, that was on a short list I was already considering, as I do really like my current one. Whats your opinion of the 100 Type R vs the CT or CT-R though? The regular CT would be a bit cheaper, 100 Type R about $20 more, and the CT-R $20 more than that.. At least after a glance at the auction listings. I would probably be leaning towards a lefty reel for this one though and the CT doesnt have the 8.1 in lefty

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I will be honest as I have been. I love the 3 Tatulas (regular ones- two leftie and a righty) and the two Type Rs one left and 1 right. I also have 1 Exceller righty.  I have used two of them all last summer, the rest I upgraded to this spring.  I have not even seen or touched the new ct. I just know I can get the Tatula 100 cheapest and really like my type rs as well. I went to the rs for the faster speed and as you can see I use both right and left hand reels. I do this for two reasons one I am a mechanic and after beating up my hands for 35 years I get cramps if I fish the same way all day. Also I divide it up this way.  If I cast and retrieve a bait like a crankbait , chatterbait, spinnerbait, rattle trap I throw it on a right handed reel. If I cast and jerk, pull, hop, flip or pitch, I want my right hand (dominant hand) on the rod and use my left hand to retrieve the line. It makes it simple for me to choose how to set up my arsenal. My arsenal usually includes a dozen rods in the rod box just not the same dozen all of the time.  My wife and I fish the tidal waters of the Chesapeake Bay and the Potomac river as our home waters.  When we vacation we fish clear deep lakes like Dale Hollow in Tennessee so the arsenal changes to fit the waters.  Not much need for a frog in a lake whe we fish for smallmouths in gin clear water 20 to 40 foot deep.LOL  Also no need for a punch rod a nd a 2 ounce weight either.  

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Not answering, but asking.  I was curious about your thoughts on the Producer Performa X.  You did give a hint.  Normal prices run $200 for the Daiwa versus $120 for the Pinnacle so I think the Daiwa should definitely be the better reel.  I did find the Performa X for $100 and the HD200 for $143.....lot closer prices but even so the Daiwa should be the better reel.  Does the Performa X make a good $100-$120 reel?

I bought a Primmus Xi XS and it quickly became a favorite reel.  Bought two more when they were being sold out at $104 at one Online store.  Would have bought more if I didn't already have too many reels.  I think the Primmus is well worth the full asking price.  Reviews of an $89 Pinnacle by bassresource suggest it is also well worth the price.

My limited experience with Abu rods supports the premise that they fish heavier than rated.

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7 minutes ago, new2BC4bass said:

Not answering, but asking.  I was curious about your thoughts on the Producer Performa X.  You did give a hint.  Normal prices run $200 for the Daiwa versus $120 for the Pinnacle so I think the Daiwa should definitely be the better reel.  I did find the Performa X for $100 and the HD200 for $143.....lot closer prices but even so the Daiwa should be the better reel.  Does the Performa X make a good $100-$120 reel?

I bought a Primmus Xi XS and it quickly became a favorite reel.  Bought two more when they were being sold out at $104 at one Online store.  Would have bought more if I didn't already have too many reels.  I think the Primmus is well worth the full asking price.  Reviews of an $89 Pinnacle by bassresource suggest it is also well worth the price.

My limited experience with Abu rods supports the premise that they fish heavier than rated.

If only going by retail price, yes $120 to $200 is quite different. But considering the regular Tatula (non-HD) is $150 retail, and you can get a 100 Type R on Ebay right now for ~$120 and a regular Tat for even less, I can't imagine any situation where I would choose the Performa X over one of those. I don't have any experience with the higher end Pinnacles though, so I can't say anything on those. Both reels are smooth and the drags both seem capable, but my Tatula definitely has better casting performance and the brake system seems far more consistent, though I've never tested them head to head with same line/rod

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Retail is how I compare reels as that is what the manufacturers feel they are worth.  I got a like new Tatula for $85 and a new Tatula Type R for $130.  Do I consider them $85 and $130 reels?  No.  Just like I don't consider the new Curado 51E I bought on closeout a $98 reel.

You owe it to yourself to try a Primmus Xi XS.  Factory tuned.  Nice looking.  Light.  Smooth.  To quote Keri May who reviewed the reel for bassresource, "This brake system was new to me so it took a bit of time to fine tune it to fit my fishing style."  I set 3 brakes on.  Set spool tension for the lure to drop fast.  (Reel would backlash if I didn't stop it before the lure hit the water....or floor.)  Haven't touched it since.  That was over a year ago.  Don't even touch the cast control when changing lures.

Took the Primmus to Florida this year when visiting in-laws.  I have to adjust my casting stroke when there because I am sitting in the front of a 14' dingy versus standing on shore at home.  The stroke isn't nearly as smooth in the boat as I have to stop it short.  Even the vaunted Curado 201E7 required minor adjustments.  The Primmus didn't.  I used the reel on a 7' ML saltwater rod rated 3/8-3/4 oz.  The combo will cast a 3/8 oz. 3DB Popper like a bullet.

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17 minutes ago, new2BC4bass said:

Retail is how I compare reels as that is what the manufacturers feel they are worth.  I got a like new Tatula for $85 and a new Tatula Type R for $130.  Do I consider them $85 and $130 reels?  No.  Just like I don't consider the new Curado 51E I bought on closeout a $98 reel.

You owe it to yourself to try a Primmus Xi XS.  Factory tuned.  Nice looking.  Light.  Smooth.  To quote Keri May who reviewed the reel for bassresource, "This brake system was new to me so it took a bit of time to fine tune it to fit my fishing style."  I set 3 brakes on.  Set spool tension for the lure to drop fast.  (Reel would backlash if I didn't stop it before the lure hit the water....or floor.)  Haven't touched it since.  That was over a year ago.  Don't even touch the cast control when changing lures.

Took the Primmus to Florida this year when visiting in-laws.  I have to adjust my casting stroke when there because I am sitting in the front of a 14' dingy versus standing on shore at home.  The stroke isn't nearly as smooth in the boat as I have to stop it short.  Even the vaunted Curado 201E7 required minor adjustments.  The Primmus didn't.  I used the reel on a 7' ML saltwater rod rated 3/8-3/4 oz.  The combo will cast a 3/8 oz. 3DB Popper like a bullet.

I'd love to try out a Primmus if I could find one around here to at least hold in person, It probably would be every bit as good or better than my Tatula. And at $104 its probably a hell of a bargain.

I have to disagree somewhat on the pricing though, though I'm not sure how to compare pricing entirely fairly either. Retail vs Retail makes some sense, but has little meaning IRL imo as sales happen all the time, and stuff like the Tatula reels are easily accessible for far under retail. Its also not entirely fair to compare a $150 retail Tatula to a $110 retail Performa X, but when my price for either is the same I'd be hard pressed to choose the "fairly priced" option.

Anyway, I didn't intent to get into a debate about pricing structure and such. Both reels honestly perform plenty well, and if retail pricing was the only option, I think either would be a fair purchase in my limited experience

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6 minutes ago, Itheral said:

Its also not entirely fair to compare a $150 retail Tatula to a $110 retail Performa X, but when my price for either is the same I'd be hard pressed to choose the "fairly priced" option.

Anyway, I didn't intent to get into a debate about pricing structure and such. Both reels honestly perform plenty well, and if retail pricing was the only option, I think either would be a fair purchase in my limited experience

As would any sane person looking for the most for their money.

Nor did I.  Some reels can be found for a lot less than retail all the time.  Some can't.  At least I haven't been able to find better than retail on some....even on ebay.  Which is why I'm not surprised that a $95 Tatula from ebay is a better reel that a $100 Exceler from TW given the fact that the Tatula has a higher retail price (and actually sells for $150 from TW).  I'm only using these reels as an example.  I know the Exceler was recently on sale for $50 and was a terrific buy at that price.  I'd put my $104 Primmus up against any $204 reel (retail).  BUT it should compete at that price considering TW sells them for $225.

I was only putting forth my opinion...and it is only my opinion...that retail versus retail is more of an apples to apples comparison than retail versus a sale price.

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Abu Garcia rods..... You can rate them all one higher than they say on the blank. So for example M=MH    L=ML I've owned multiple abus and they are great rods just rated incorrectly...

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17 hours ago, fisherrw said:

Abu Garcia rods..... You can rate them all one higher than they say on the blank. So for example M=MH    L=ML I've owned multiple abus and they are great rods just rated incorrectly...

I wasn't sure if that was true for all Abu rods or not, the Veritas is the highest end Abu I've tried, but all of theirs Veritas and under certainly have at least felt heavy/stiff compared to other companies. I wouldnt quite say my 2 are a full power heavier than rated.. but they are certainly on the upper limit of that rating.. lol

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The veritas are that way all across the line. That is not true of the Ike series rods.  That series is a group of 15 different technique specific length and actions.  What they say they are they are.   

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A reel in the 7:1 speed range would be better for frogs, but what you have will work. The rod matters more. I had a MH Falcon I was using for frogs but recently bought a Cabela's Tourney XT 7-3 Hvy FROG model and it makes all the difference. It's not just the good hookset, but also the ability to get the fish to the surface and drag it in over pads or matted vegetation. And some will get down IN the stuff, then the backbone of the rod comes in. Couple that with a high-speed reel and you can ski the fish across the surface once you get them to it.

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After my last post I actually picked up an 8.1 Tatula Type R from Ebay to pair up with the Veritas. Hopefully those pair up nicely for frogging and some pitching use. Pretty sure that taps my rod/reel budget for this year though!

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just wanted to say that the 6'10" MHF Tatula rod may be the most versatile rod i've ever used.  i have one and really do love it.  it can handle just about any technique you want aside from maybe crankbaits.

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That Tatula will work really nice on that Veritas.  I was really impressed by my 7 foot Mh Veritas paired with the 8-1 Tatula R. The T wing is no gimmick. When it drops down the line has a much wider opening to go thru so there is less friction and it results in nice long casts.  Now all you need is tie on a frog!! Good Luck and let us know how it works out.

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Got the new Tatula R in today, attached it to the Veritas, and strung it up. Initial impressions are quite good, seems like a good pairing for what I wanted.

The 8.1 retrieve is definitely noticeable enough compared to the 6.3, and I'm surprised how much I actually like the lefty retrieve I grabbed. I'd tried them in store before, but not attached to a rod and actually tossing stuff out. My left hand doesnt retrieve as smooth as my right hand, but the casting back to back is a much smoother operation than switching hands constantly

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