The only thing I have heard or read is how the ABA anglers like the idea because the extra membership fee's will give ABA more money to work with and how the ABA current ABA members will have larger fields at their tournaments ,meaning more money for them.My question is still where do the BASS guy's gain? paying out more money to a smaller scale tournament trail.This is not ment to be a slam on ABA, just a question.

I can understand BASS unloading their Weekender's Series under their present circumstances.

They did not feel that the series had enough of a draw to continue with their current program.

I can also understand why they went with ABA, since Triton boats is a ABA sponsor as well

as one of the MAJOR sponsors of BASS. There are pros and cons, so each angler will have

to decide what is best for their individual circumstances.

BASS is very aware of the independence of the PAA. The PAA will have their first classic next

spring. No entry fees for the pros,  ONE MILLION dollar purse from Toyota, media coverage

of the event by CBS and the Outdoor Channel, each pro can openly promote their sponsors,

including individual boat sponsors, etc. That format and payout is going to be HARD TO BEAT,

especially when some of the procedes will go to benefit the Texas Parks and Wildlife youth

program. More PAA events are being planned around the country. BASS must FOCUS on the

Elite Series.

Some anglers will like the change in the Weekender's Series and some will not. The bottomline

is that there are plenty of other trails with opportunities. Many have comparable payouts!

Bassfreak2, if you live in Indiana check out www.HoosierOpen.com, they have a 80% payout.

Another really good trail to check out is, www.nbaa-bass.com. They are one of the fastest growing

trails in the country. Anglers can shop around! Just my 02 cents!

Thanks for the info Lane. I am well aware of Paul Jollys HOTS tournaments and have fished a few. The nbaa is new to me though and I will certainly check that out.  

I personally think every one gains in this situation. Of course,

some will gain more than others.

ABA will be the big winner because they are going to get a

huge influx of new members and a lot more media.

BASS will gain because now they can still have their weekend

series with less liability and work on their part.

The BASS members gain a little because they still

get to fish the Weekend Series. It doesn't sound like the Series

would have been around much longer had someone else not

taken it over.

This whole deal was supposed to take place a few years ago. I

knew, prior to the Weekend Series coming out, that ABA and BASS

were communicating on getting a trail that could rival FLW's BFL.

Hopefully, everyone can gain a little something from this joint venture.

JT Bagwell

IF they are going to rival the BFL they are going to need to offer the series in all of the states that the BFL does.  Again, Michigan so far is not on the weekend series list.

B

I was just having a similar conversation with a friend of mine. It appears

that they also left Illinois and Iowa off of the schedule for 2007. I just can

not understand how they expect to grow these markets if they pull the plug

on the tournaments after just one season. Now would be the time to really

get a foot in this area if in fact Team Supreme is closing shop.

JT Bagwell

With both Stren and BASS pulling out of tournament trails in the northern area you would think that any major tournament trail would have a good boater turnout.  Michigan is hungry for a big tournament trail.  I know I am not the only northern angler left shaking their head at all of this.  My only option for close to home tournaments with respectable payout is the BFL.  Dont get me wrong, I had planned on travelling for the bigger tournaments but I wanted a closer to home Stren type trail to add to my schedule.  I most definately will not fish the ABA tourneys with the boater/nonboater competing against eachother format. (Never understood the concept behind that - just a hideous way of running a tournament).

B

I most definately will not fish the ABA tourneys with the boater/nonboater competing against eachother format. (Never understood the concept behind that - just a hideous way of running a tournament).

B

Usually when it comes to a non-boater in the ABA, I have experienced that they are very unskilled individuals and that they are just looking to fish with somebody that has a boat.  The non-boaters in the ABA events, usually aren't finishing with the top 20 guys.  If by chance there is someplace in the ABA events that a non-boater is waxing everyone, then it's time for him to get a boat and fish on the boater side, since it's the same price.

I would have to say that is not an accurate assessment.   Even so just the fact that I have to compete with someone in the back of my boat and deal with them, by rule, having the right to pull fish out from under me.  In addition, there are some great fishermen out there who cant afford a boat.  The prize money from ABA tournaments is not going to buy a new boat.

B

That's not what the ABA's purpose is. It's for the weekend angler to compete in bass tournaments with others around there area. It's not the Elite Series and it's not the FLW Tour. Maybe that is the problem you're having with this, your trying to compare it with those two tours.

The ABA is a low entry fee event that is suppose to be fun while in a competitive atmosphere. The nice thing about America is, if you don't like something, then stay away from it, but I don't see a reason to bash it.

God forbid you let some other person step in your precious boat.

I would never compare the ABA to those tours.

I think I've made it clear I will exercise my rights as an American - rights that I contribute to defending every day.  

I'd appreciate it if you didnt assume that it's about me thinking I'm too good for people to be in my boat.  

I'm defending your average joe who cant afford a boat but is an exceptional fisherman good enough to beat most boaters.  Your statement made it sound that he doesnt belong in the ABA unless he fishes out of his own boat.   I'd welcome him in my boat any day!  As a team mate, not as an adversary.

I truly hope the ABA makes the BASS weekend series a success.  I'm just a tad bit bitter that they have chosen to not include a state with some great lakes and great anglers - Michigan.  And I'm very skeptical that based on the decisions they've made in the past and my experience with them that it will be much of a success.

So, back to the thread topic.  B.A.S.S and A.B.A join forces, which I assume JT threw out for fair and balanced discussion not just the rosey fanboi opinion.  I dont think it will be a success and I'm dissapointed already in the execution of it.  That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

B

Wait a min., I may be wrong and you guys can correct me, but the ABA/Bass weekend series is the same as it was last year, Boaters against boaters and Non-boaters against non-boaters, no shared weight and the non-boaters have a 3 fish limit. The other ABA events may have a different set of rules and I never looked at them since we are talking about the ABA/BASS merger which only concerns the weekend series. As for compeating against a non-boater in the back of your boat, that is how most local clubs do it,

Can I ask a question that pertains to the Northern states?      Reading about some of the states that got left out.

Does the PWT, Proffessional Walleye Trail, hurt the numbers in those northern states for a bass trail?

Is there more call for Walleye tournaments?  

In the south, we don't have a call for those trails, and Bass just seems to be the only ticket, but in the north, I see more Blog about walleye trails than bass tournaments.

Any ideal of what kind of ratio there are between walleye fishermen and bass fishermen?

Matt.

You know, that is a very good question. I happen to live right where they

have held 2 of the last 3 FLW Walleye Tour Championships (at least I think

that is what they are calling it now). We are also hosting the Walleye League

Championship this coming season. Walleye fishing is big in this area, but I am

not sure that it is as big as bass fishing. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if it starts

to get as big as bass fishing in the North because of all of the new tournament

trails available for those guys to fish.

JT Bagwell

If your a Walleye fisherman, do you have to talk funny " ahh" ;D ;D

If your a Walleye fisherman, do you have to talk funny " ahh" ;D ;D

That wasn't nice to say.  ;D

First of all, let's not labor under any delusions.  All the angler means to any of these organizations and their sponsor is MONEY.  It's not a one way street: the angler wants cash, prizes, and recognition.  

That said, if an organization doesn't provide what the angler wants, he bails.  That's why the BASS weekend series failed and clearly why ABA starts out behind the eight ball.  For whatever reason, ABA has their own problem with declining participation in their OWN weekend series.  

Don't shoot the messenger:  facts are facts and you can torture them to say whatever YOU want them to say.  Decline is decline.  If you can't fix the decline in your own organization, why take on a second pig?  Could it be the lure of being on national TV somewhere down the road saying mark it Dewey

Tournaments here in XXXX that could draw over a hundred boats are lucky to have the minimum anglers for full points.  Others that used to have barely enough for full points are not even worth fishing.  And with the increase in fees, I hate to say it but, It IS the money, stupid!  Wake u-u-u-u-p!!  Anglers wanted an increase in payback so, what did they do?  Raise the entry fees!!!  When an organization can't read what the tea leaves are saying, they are in trouble.  (Sorry for the X's, I'll be excommunicated if they find out my identity.)

If these organizations aren't careful, they could go the route of the World Bassing Association

In all fairness to the messenger, in Texas, the TTT, BFL also has not had full fields.     Its not just BASS and the ABA having problems.   And its not just in 2006.

We have so many avenues to fish in Texas, what a wonderfull opportunity to fish any one of these trails.

I would like to know the actual numbers over the last 2-3 years to see for ourselves the numbers that are dropping.     What you call fact maybe only covering a couple of districts.    What actual facts can you bring to the table?

Not opinion, but facts as you say.

Matt.

Minnesota ABA districts are thriving.  The attendence has gone up 2-4 more anglers per season since 2001.  The total right now is around 45 per event in the Twin Cities area.  Thats pretty good for a low-end tournament.

good point dumbbasses most of the A.B.A. southeast can't hardly get full fields. the north mississippi A.B.A. director got mad and quit. theres some local trials paying 80% to 90% at the ramp and close to home. most of us are going to fish these. the heck with the national trials gas is to much

good point dumbbasses most of the southeast can't hardly get full fields. the north mississippi director got mad and quit. theres some local trials paying 80% to 90% at the ramp and close to home. most of us are going to fish these. the heck with the national trials gas is to much

???

Hi Mat

Merry Christmas!

Matt, in answer to your question regarding what do I bring to the table.for starters, how about common sense, a little bit of attention to detail, personal observation, and sound inductive reasoning? You appeared to have taken it personally and in all candor, I have not gone back and looked at the other two pages to see if you even posted anything. When I commented, it was not personal and if you took it personally, you misunderstood. The insinuation about my post not being factual is debatable dealers choice. Trust me, if it was personal there would be no doubt in your mind.

However, in short, the specific points in my post were: 1) it's about the money; 2) the angler will bail if the organization doesn't meet his expectations; 3) ABA DOES have an uphill battle with the BASS weekend series 4) facts are facts and CAN be tortured to say what you (not you personally just generally speaking) want them to say 5) from personal observation I know several districts with severe decline in participation; 6) the increase in payback was remedied in the manner I described; 7) any organization that does not meet the needs of it's members will go belly-up.

Is there any specific point that you feel I need to address further?

Well dummies looks like you put a stop to that.I agree about the money,don't have a problem with paying, like you I would like to see some of it come back if I win. People get caught up in makeing the trail and sponsors look good that they forget about the one that counts.If the trail had no anglers what would they have? Nothing in my book. They say its all about the anglers but you would not only have the ones in charge talking up the trail but a massive force of anglers who would be proud to lift the flag and speak wellof a trail.There is good and bad in all that we do , most of us would just like a little more good.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year back at you and every one else!!  

  I was asking for facts that you stated as to be truths.    Can you give us some of the districts that are in decline.   Numbers?

I say that because, we have so many great choices in Tx with, some have ties to FLW and BASS, but we have great trails for the weekend warrior, not too mention the great bass clubs that have open tourneys also.  

I respect your opinion and your common sense.     My post just ask this, and I don't even know how many districts the ABA has, you state they are down, far as I know, you may be talking about a few districts in your neck of the woods, and thats not showing the whole picture.

In all fairness to the ABA, there is too many choices, great choices in Tx, and all the FLW and BASS series in TX didn't have full fields for the past few years.

Is that a knock on FLW and BASS when all the other trails are not getting full fields either?   I don't call any of those trails a failure, because there are so many choices to fish.

With all do respect, what state and region do you fish from.    How many other trails are in your area?

How about the guys that don't have 20 trails in there area and are forced to fish one trail!

If you fish a small weekend series, and its all about the money, maybe you should step on up to one of the bigger trails that have full fields so you can get more bang for your buck.       All or most trails pay back % of entries, so in all fairness, your trail pays ya'll back based on your numbers of entries recieved.

This is just a suggestion.     If you want larger fields in your area, then the negative press you keep generating is not going to help you achieve your wants of having a full field.

Hook'em

Matt  

Here's hoping the New Year brings us all the best fishing yetand sound, logical deliberations in forums like this one

Matt, first of all, let me dispose of the issue of negativity. As far as I'm concerned, it is just as important an issue as anything else being discussed. I would be flattered beyond description to think that my statements in my current posts are so powerful that they affected declining rates in tournaments in SEVERAL districts during the PAST year.

I did not generate negative press any more than I would be generating negative press by stating K'Mart stores are declining more all the time. The decline is not my fault and yes I can give you specific store closings. But, if you take personal observation of the closings in your area, couple it with observations from other people across the nation, add to it Kmart closings that you also observe as you travel through other states, you can arrive at a fairly sound generalized statement about Kmart's continued decline.

Without being negative, it's also a fair conclusion to say there's a problem. Somewhere along the line, management didn't listen to the customer. As in tournament participation, it's the reason for the decline that's important.

As for negative press, there seems to be a perception that because somebody surfaces an issue about an organization that the one doing the posting is somehow, negative. That's not true. I really am amused by individuals who simply say, pick up the phone call em they're easy to talk to right, and I've got some beach front property in Arizona for sale.

A lot of times, people who post in public forums do so out of frustration because of the unavailability of someone in management who will even LISTEN. Enough about negativity.