Paul Roberts

There's a Mason line that is used for shock tippets, called "Hard Mono". Looks like BPS has/had it: http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_22711?cm_mmc=froogle-_-175-3-2-_--1-_-38-429-648-00&hvarAID=froogle&mr:trackingCode=7A5A7BA8-E881-DE11-B712-001422107090&mr:referralID=NA I tried Wayne's method here and it does work. But you have to be very careful with the heat as the mono will just melt or curl right up. I tried a heat gun but way too much heat. I had to dig around the shop to find a lighter with a weak flame. I suppose an adjustable Bic type would be best.

Wayne, try Mason mono leader material. Fly and saltwater shops will carry it. It's the stiffest, hardest mono going. Been around a long time. I've been using Maxima Chameleon which is pretty stiff mono, but not as stiff as Mason.

Sorry, I'm about to run here so I haven't read other responses. First, yes you set the hook. Often they may hook themselves, but not always. You don't have to cross the eyes like a plastic I guess but do set the hook. Losing fish on a short line, esp with small gaps and trebles (points can work against each other) is really common. Keep a firm tight line but don't pull TOO hard on the short line due to lack of stretch in short line. Keep rod low when they get close so they won't jump. LEAD the fish; that is, do not go for the jaw until you have them relatively docile and swimming smoothly toward you. Lead 'em back and forth if you have to, esp with a big fish. People will tell you to get 'em in as quick as possible, and this is true, but the 'possible' is the trick. Don't try to lip a green fish, or one you don't have control of and gain an idea of what they are about to do. Lead until they are docile enough to lead 'em right to your hand. If you miss, stay cool, and bring em back around. Stay cool. No rush. But don't fall asleep either. Short line at boat or shore is when things get critical.

All above lure suggestions could be good. But...realize weather and water conditions will run the show. Keep at it. Don't judge a water by a few trips. Here's one idea I've used in ponds with little cover, and with little shoreline obstructions, that allows you to cover some water. Believe it or not, try trolling a crankbait from shore. Walk the shoreline dragging a crankbait. Be especially aware for hits around the corners -when the lure changes speed and direction. If you hit a fish, fish that spot more thoroughly with a jig or plastic, or other lure.

It may be even better to call it a 'distance finder', as all those marks 'down there' are often off to the side and actually shallower than the chart offers. Since the Earth gives us the densest return, it makes the gizmo into something of a depth finder. ;D The rest (fish-n-stuff) can be pretty sketchy. :-/

That's really sound advice. Bottom contact can cure a lot of presentation ills. And feeding fish can sweep away much of the rest! Good stuff.

They may be difficult as they are likely resting. You may have to "make the magic". You will have to decide how much time and effort you are willing to put in on 'em. Hopefully you have some other fish located too. If you can see them on sonar, or ID their depth (nearest shelf/drop-off depth is a good guess), first try a finesse grub, or 4"worm swum through, on the drop, or rising above them. May have to play with speed (jig head weight/body style, ...) . You'll need good depth control to do this well. A lot of anglers don't REALLY know where their lure actually is. No go (not surprising), get just off them and try to get an appropriate depth crank to rise in front of them -impetus to make/force a decision (some call it a reaction strike). This is something that works only when the plug rises just right in front of one. So (like the grub) you may have to keep trying -figure out the proximity, angle and speed. What you're really hoping for is that first bite. It may turn on some of the others. Whether the crank works or not, then follow up again with the finesse bait again. Sometimes just moving them a bit, with the crank, may get you a bite. Another thing to think about is that this resting behavior is not all there is to their behavior, nor the only habitat element they are relating to. If you've got a group of good bass suspended and resting, this will change. They'll become active and go a-huntin' So be aware of things that might trigger this, like developing clouds, wind causing chop, passing bait, ... Further, even if a developing wind and chop doesn't put them on the hunt, it may attenuate lighting enough that your attempts at presentation are of greater interest. If this suspension isn't the norm here it may be due to fluctuating water levels -just something to keep in mind as you try/if you try to track them. Good luck. Let us know how you make out.

You know, that's what I don't like about "pattern fishing". Patterns can be what you can bring to them I suppose. But they can also be a facsimile of knowledge -of the real variables that underlie the event. Patterns can be a lot of 'what' and 'when' but the line is often drawn at the 'why'. Many think the 'why' is unknowable, or too complex, and it can be. Often it's inaccessible. But the why's, when we can get at them, are exportable. What and when is just something you're stuck with for the time being, until you are 'lucky' enough to see it again -and recognize it! Further, what helps one to adjust, adapt, to changes in a pattern -the hallmark of the top pros -is knowledge. Why something came about, or disintegrated, as I see it, is "the holy grail". Don't get me wrong, pattern fishing makes perfect sense in a complex world where we have to make good in a short amount of time, with very limited information. The reality is probably that "time on the water" is a culmination of a whole lotta whats and whens. But, I'm putting my efforts toward deeper knowledge -the 'whys'. Fool's errand? Mebbe. It certainly won't win me tournaments anytime soon, but that's OK, as Muddy says, it's about fun. Pick your poison.

Predictability is a double-edged sword. It works when you understand the variables. If you don't, it is a prison.

Ouch! I'm in a float tube to boot; I know that "sploop!" sound too well. Everything is now tethered -I know how spiders feel. I leave my phone in the car. I'm not available when I'm fishing.

Very nice! BTW: You look just fine for a fishing day. You should see me today -and I'm not even fishing! Besides, I'm lookin' at the fish, just like you.

That's the bottom line -the fun. If the expectation were to fish against others (real or perceived), to catch at all costs, then you're being pretty rough on yourself. If fun can be had in stretching horizons, then this has been the year for that. 8-) As to the problem at hand: My GUESS is, that that puzzle piece is close by.

The curves we can be thrown. There ARE rules out there. Been a really fascinating year for me, to see the "norms" toyed with. Been a cool year here too, with some record low nights. Weed beds were different this year (I talk about it some in my thread, Some More Fishing -Crankin' and Finessin' http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1248500205 ) I read an interesting research paper a while back about herbicide treatments and bass response. And the researcher (Dr Scott Samson an angler too) recently did a follow up article for the In-Fisherman 2009 Bass Guide. The gist was that the bass DID NOT MOVE out, but anglers did! This says something about both bass', and anglers, relationship with an area. The bass moved more (to hunt effectively is my thought), and shifted use to somewhat deeper water and some existing wood (for protection). The story gets better: There were some anglers who weren't intimidated; two in particular placed high in tournaments from that very location. One was a Japanese angler who didn't have prior experience there thus he could not fish history'. They fished finesse stuff (DS) and placed high (both at #2). This is a common thing (but not fool proof of course), that more open water tends to require smaller stuff. It's the stupid looking lure thing, I believe. Similarly, I have certain areas in the ponds I fish that I can take a certain lure, or two, and catch em really well GoTo's for that area. There are other areas of each pond where I do not catch fish. Is it bc they are not there? Sometimes, some places yes. Other times and places, they are there but the layout coupled with conditions makes these areas not conducive to the same GoTo presentation that kills em on the other side of the pond. My response tends to be to shy away from the what I know to do the GoTo thing (Again, I'm not in it for numbers, but to learn something). So I challenge myself to catch em where I can't and when it pans out, it's usually a different presentation method entirely that turns the tide. We all know that certain basic pres. methods shine in different places. It helps to recognize them when they appear even on small scale like one small area of a pond, or an area that has undergone change. This has truly been a year where the GoTo / fishing history path has fallen apart in many places. Muddy, I'm not saying this fits your particular spot, but it's something to think about this winter or this weekend. If I remember right you've had an outer weed line with rocks that held fish. Likely there is some basic structure there maybe the fish are still in the area. I'm thinking finesse-sized jigs (see tyrius' post http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1251991140), shaky, or DS on what's left or nearby those rocks, and further out on the drop. Hey, you'd found fish, a chunk of the work is done. Now adapt.

Nice tyrius! Always noce to find something that works. Write it down -it'll probably come up again next year.

Thank you, Mrs. Matstone. Never sure how many others actually want all the details. All those details are what floats my boat. But you know, when I get home, I feel like I was away for a long time. Lots of events make for lots of livin'. I guess that's why they say fishing doesn't take time away from your alotted time on the planet. I always thought if you fish hard enough, you might actually gain time! But, my beard just keeps getting grayer.

Man! Big question. I hear you. It's easy to miss those clues. Little observations, over time, can go a long way. But, just what do we look for? Sorry, no short answers -except you're on the right track in being observant and asking lots of questions. The trick is to ask good ones when you are out there. If one thought being a serious bass fisherman was all just about bass, they're only seeing the tip of the iceberg the tip of the food pyramid that controls much of bass behavior over most of the year. Otherwise we're relying completely on "poke n hope" bites -"reaction strikes", "go-to lures", aggressive individuals, etc . No shame there; I actually believe such bites account for MOST of our catches day in and day out, whether we know the forage or not. This will not change. The first problem is, it's tough to emulate prey well with rod-n-reel, especially under most conditions (sky, water, ...). I believe the biggest barrier is conditions at hand influencing the effectiveness of hook-n-line angling. Beyond these basic facts (says me see disclaimer*), knowing what the important forage species are, their habitat and habits (how they use the habitat) can allow you to alter or fine tune your effort, by homing in on where, when, and how, bass are feeding. If its bluegills we'll likely be fishing vegetation for stalking and ambushing bass. If its shad we're looking more to where open water meets appropriate structure where bass may hunt more by bust and run. Yellow perch are sort of in between these. Then---are these prey species supported mostly by plankton, insects, fish fry and fingerlings, or other fishes? When and where? Immediate conditions, more than any astronomical forces, run the show (see disclaimer*). Bass will not be far behind. Where are we (the top predator) in this chain? Are we casting a GoTo to a fallen log somewhere else? Primary prey can change year to year, and does so through the year. And each prey species has very different life history strategies as they grow and mature. Also, some individual bass may key on certain prey, while others are doing something else. They may key on certain size prey: In general most small, young fishes are shallower (or more surface oriented for zooplankton and insects) than larger, older ones. Predators key on what is most cost effective what's available and vulnerable. Those that don't, starve. From here it's taking such basics and applying them to your particular water. The best route is to have a ballpark plan, then FISH. Knowing prey can give you some good questions to ask going in and throughout the day. Take those spit-ups as potential blessings. I guess the most practical advice I can give is to get to know a body of water well, and (try to) stay on top of it. The habits of the forage will begin to weigh in more heavily as you go, as observations accrue. How you take advantage of these things will not stay constant. This is not cookbook as each water, each year, each day, sometimes each hour, will be different. You'll be writing your own cookbook as you go. FISH, and fish hard! Fishing isn't just catching -at least it isn't for me. Tough job we got there. *Disclaimer: These (said 'ideas') are the things rolling around in my head and were derived from much reading, fishing and wildlife research experiences and should not necessarily be rolling around inside your head. I cannot provide a long list of Tournaments won or Trophy bass as proof of the value of these ideas. Read at your own risk. These ideas are subject to change.

In a case like that (adult vs child), logic rules. This isn't easily conjured up on the spot for most people I think. Certainly isn't for me. It's something you actually have to practice. My wife has a long history of conflict resolution (as a social worker, policy analyst, turned elementary school teacher). SammyLee's tact is right on. Best way to diffuse such an aggressive situation long term.

I might put something together sometime. There are some really great resources out there already. In the recent thread called something like, "Sonar ... Oh My!! I added a few good addresses. There's another too --guess I'll add 'em when I get around to doing my own thread. CWB wrote: Absolutely! While it's no bass boat, it sure gets you intimate with your water, and fish . Having a bass leap eye level in front of you is pretty neat. Last year I had a good 20inch smallie do it -then I lost her -hook just popped free below me -ooooooohh that one... . I did catch an 18 and a 19 that day though.

Very nice. I'd be re-visiting that lake soon! I don't have any reason to doubt the weights, considering the way camera lenses work. But RWs idea is a very good one.

Very nice day. I LOVED stream smallie fishing. Something I could retire on. I used to catch some nice smallies in the Delaware on fly tackle, in between trout bouts. Don't have 'em here in CO though.

Small pond? Fish everything.

Okay Paul, now you've got us all waiting with bated breath Roger I've had that "bated breath" for a long time. I once told a fellow (but senior) researcher that I wanted to "see the face of God" -LOL. Does it get more optimistic than that? ;D There is no single factor of course to answer all the nuances, but there are some basic parameters, limitations, that need to be clarified, and just haven't been. I've been collecting this stuff for years. I think I'm beginning to understand some pretty steep parameters.

I may be sounding somewhat uppity here, and certainly don't have the Tournament or Trophy credentials to be trusted ;D :, but I think I know what's up. I need to pull it all together into a cohesive package before I get ahead of myself and get to babblin'. This has been one darn interesting year.

Thanks Ellesar. I'm following your fishing. You're on a heck of a fishery, and makin' good use of it.

How shallow were these fish? Also, how deep were the holes you found the big fish in on swimbaits a little while back?