Paul Roberts

Sounds like a typical response under bright sun to me. Do you find this much different in summer?

In general, most of the time, the bass I know prefer to be out of sight. When they are shallow, they seem to prefer to be only as shallow as beyond where you can see bottom. They can be hard to see. They are also much relaxed under overcast skies. They appear to hunt more efficiently (although I've read otherwise in some cases -Florida in particular), but what I've seen makes me think bass may have an advantage over prey (at least sunfish) under darker conditions. Bass appreciate shade, not for temperature (it's not likely to be much different) but for security and maybe hunting advantages. When do I see bass under bright sun? Early in the spring, on really good heating days (calm, bright sun) in shallow sheltered areas (coves are great) I may see them sunning. They are very spooky, hard to approach, quick to vacate, much less get a lure to. Later, nearer the spawn, on good heating days, I see females holding high in the water, very near the surface, almost always near some vertical cover piece. These fish are less apt to "vacate" they just sink into the depths or swim slowly away. I've also seen them like this post-spawn into summer, and again in early fall (I believe). These fish are very willing to feed, but can be spooky under the bright conditions. I see this in the shallow ponds I fish. There aren't deep populations of bass, and so my bass become shoreline oriented very soon after ice-out. In larger deeper water bodies many bass are known to remain deeper, although in some large natural lakes I've fished in the past, some bass do move into shallow sheltered coves, like I now see in my ponds. These days are not always the best fishing because under bright sun in shallow water and calm conditions it is very tough not to spook them. I can understand why you might not be catching bass on sunny days -it's difficult not to spook them. With what I have to work with here on your situation I can only guess: One big difference between spring and summer is the amount and density of vegetation. In spring, before the weeds have grown up, bass are much more exposed. Bass are often deeper in summer, which may explain something. Spring waters can be very clear, before summer plankton blooms develop. High water clarity and bright sun can be really tough. In general, I tend to have more difficulty catching shallow bass in bright sun any time of year, except very early spring and late fall, when sun angle is so low (and, at least in early spring, waters are more turbid due to water density supporting fine particles in suspension). Dense cover, deeper water, and plankton blooms, all help in summer. Most of the time, I'll take overcast conditions for sheer intensity of action almost any time. What kind of lake type are you fishing? How do you fish those lures in summer versus spring? What's different between seasons in your water? Just curious... Are you in northern WI? What are your water temps in summer? 78-80 tops? What month do your bass spawn?

If this mud is not the norm (over the year) in this lake, I'd simply choose another fishin' hole. If you don't have another option, or feel like taking the challenge (and the lumps) try these (together): Find the clearest water. Fish a slower straight retrieve, without lots of turns, starts or stops -the opposite of what tends to trigger in clear water. Fish tight to solid cover -close to vertically where you can. Make repeated casts. Lures: Bulky dense-skirted jigs with a bulky chunk trailer ( I like pork). Same in a Colorado bladed spinnerbait. Fat crankbait fished as above (But people often have a tendency to fish crankbaits too fast!). Choose opaque colors: Black, white, fluorescent chartreuse in green-stained, fluorescent red in brown-stained.

Need more info. What type of water body body are you fishing? I'm guessing you are fishing a reservoir, and trying the incoming creeks? Why have you chosen the particular location you are describing? Are you in a boat or on shore? I'm wondering if you can get away from the mud. Different locations, different water body altogether?

I think I can handle the gestation period question. Fish don't really have an internal "gestation period" like mammals do. Fertilization occurs outside the body and embryo development rate is determined by temperature (eggs hatching in about a week in most circumstances). Now egg maturation within the female, what Catt, and maybe Damien, is getting at , is a different thing. With spring spawners it begins the previous year, with immature eggs appearing in the ovaries in the autumn. They then develop slowly (in the south), or enter a nearly complete hiatus (in the north), during winter. In the late winter/early spring there is a surge of hormones coupled with increasing temperatures that bring on maturation. Final timing is a combination of factors: An endogenous rhthym (internal clock; apparently set the previous year), temperature (known to be critical for egg survival), and other stuff I've listed in another recent post. In the upper latitudes where I've fished and observed, calendar dates seem to be most useful, coupled with water temperature trends to fine tune by a week or so. The bulk of the spawn seems to be pretty consistent where I've fished, falling within a week (either side) of a specified week -i.e. I expect the Colorado spawn in my small shallow ponds to fall around the first of May. However, deeper (colder) waters fall later -as much as a month in the deepest ones. Hope this helps.

Dunno. Seasonally -it takes a full year! I've been told (by Ralph Manns) that given enough food (for important fat reserves) females can make more eggs and spawn again. But the spawn period is a window that will pass. Bigger deeper waters with different basins of different depths can produce a long spawn period (lake-wide). As to sexing bass; It's guesswork. Ralph Manns (a biologist specializing in bass) says that no one has found a consistent method. In general, females grow larger than males. Largest, but very rare, males have been known to hit 5lbs.. The only time you can really tell is around during the spawn: by behavior, when females are swollen with eggs in pre-spawn, and post-spawn when they are hollow bellied.

Substrate -hard bottom- usually gravel/small cobble, is the key. It can be hard to tell where the locations are, except by looking. Pick a sunny day and do some scouting. They'll use the area year after year.

Catt, Your probably right. I've read that too -that females drop eggs in several beds. And also, that females, with enough food, can even produce more eggs and spawn again. In my small observation ponds though there are not that many eligible male bass, and it seems without another choice a ready female just loops around an already occupied bed. Not sure if the male will allow her to add more eggs. Thus the "hanger on" idea. Not sure if it's valid. Will have to watch some more.

I read an article recently, F&S I believe of a guy diving with spawning bass and he mentioned bass coloration changes indicating receptivity to lures. I've seen some of the same colorations/pattern he described, but cannot attach receptivity to them. Here's the link: http://www.fieldandstream.com/article_gallery.jsp?ID=1000014272 The female you saw I call a "hanger on". Since your males sound like they are locked onto their beds, they have eggs already in them. I don't know if these females will lay more eggs, or if she's just hanging around, with hormones raging. Anyway, I've found these "hanger's on" females to often be quite catchable. Get a bead on the direction she is traveling (her circuit) cast way ahead (she's likely spooky) and when she approaches the bait (tube is good), wiggle it gently so she can see it. Hopefuly she'll tip up and suck it in. Another way is to swim a swimming tail worm over her -about a foot above her. A straight swim -not too fast! If this doesn't work, move away, then rest her (5min) then approach so she doesn't see you. Stay behind a bush, or if no cover, you may have to pitch from a distance -using the high straight swim. Good luck.

Raul could be right -I've seen that too. But since you saw them so long ago, and especially, the larger beds are already silted in, my guess is that the bass and their fry moved on, and 'gills have moved into the site to spawn too. Both bass and 'gills select the same substrate type -usually gravel, but spawn at different dates. Of course, you're in FL, so there may be overlap in spawning dates. But the silted in bass beds are a real clue that they'd vacated a while ago.

Fishing is an ever changing work in progress. Some thoughts: 1).This time of year bright sun can be a killer. The sun is now high enough that it penetrates straight in and illuminates every detail. Makes getting a lure to the fish without spooking them VERY difficult. Then, if you do get it there, anything amiss and the bass are apt to reject it, especially if they are educated. It helps if you can sight fish at such times, as you get to see their reactions and adjust. Clouds and wind ripples on the surface help you out -a lot. As do the first and last half hour of the day. 2). You are in post-spawn. Male are defensive, but many are a bit tuckered, and may have seen a lot of lures, as the spawn is when a lot of anglers get their licks in. Search for females. You'll most probably need to slow your retrieves, swimming jigs, tubes, worms (swimming tails), in swims, falls (especially), and smooth glides. Topwaters can be great, under low vis conditions -sometimes just wind ripples are all you need. 3). Females may have moved away from spawning areas by this time. In general, bass move "away from shore" after the spawn in a lot of waters -unless there's tons of shallow cover to hide in. Otherwise, they'll likely be relating to the main basin(s). They'll likely stay there for the summer. They often hold high in the water column, picking up heat, so it's possible to fish under them. When shore fishing at these times I break out a fast 7ft spinning rod, with a large spool reel and 20# braid to make long casts. Hopefully there are some away-from-shore feeding shelves you can reach. Or, it may be time to get the rowboat out. 4). If it's been really hot, it's possible (but not likely given the time of year), that the water temps have raised high enough to put bass off during midday. Try early AM, evening, or at night. 5). If the pond is deep enough (20ft or more) there may still be cold water below. Strong wind can roll up this cold water and put 'em off, but this doesn't last long, especially with the hot weather you've had. I doubt this is the issue. 6). If you've got bluegills, they should be spawning now. Find a good colony and fish just beyond, with a jig, tube, or worm. If brilliant sun too, try casting a translucent lure way high and well past the target area (so bass won't see the lure in the air -believe it or not this really spooks 'em in high vis conditions). Then, start retrieving right away with the rod tip held high so the line doesn't fall on the water -This'll freak 'em out too. Swim the bait in then let it fall beyond the colony. Let us know what you come up with.

FisherGirl, How close past the spawn are you there? Got any surface temps? Has it been windy where you are? How deep is your lake? Anything else changed in that time -during times you fished? Especially sky conditions?

You're right..they could not be post spawn. I don't think I would have suggested that. Quote the post here, if you want, and I'll decipher. Better, start a post "Ice Out" or something like that.

So, you're saying you see bass randomly distributed, at ice out, not favoring a particular area? Just curious, where in the water column are they? High? Low? Or all over?

Dominick, I'm not sure what your question is I guess. I guessing the bass you are seeing are heat soaking yet. Are they lying right at the surface? I think you had said they were on both sides of the pit. Again, not sure of your question.

I'd expect tidal bass heat soak too. Largemouths are largemouths. Were these fish in a calm backwater or cove?

Oh man...Don't get me started! Yes, I've noticed that too. And I believe there are some really good physiological reasons why this is so. It has to do with what's called "energetic budgets". Adult cats (very different than kittens) are VERY stingy with their energy. This is true of both wild and domestic cats. I believe it explains why and when certain presentations work, especially so for big fish. I don't have time right now to go further with it than this -I've got to get some work done here. But I'll try to re-visit it at a later date.

FROG, I'll bet that was a sunny day when you saw them. Yes?

You know, I just haven't seen the post-spawn blues, so often talked about. The females seem to come out of the spawn hungry! But they seem less willing to chase. Slower horizontal presentations seem to work best for me, but not necessarily "slower" in triggering. I use a jig-n-pig, and tubes. I tend to start by fishing a falling bait, near some prominant isolated cover on the spawning banks (but beyond the bedded males). I also try swimming these too, in smooth glides and falls, especially where there isn't a lot of prominent cover pieces to collect fish. I also try shaking a jig, or hopping it, sometimes even ripping it. Just be sure to allow time for the slower big females to catch it or so they know they can catch it. I fish worms too: smaller straight tails in brighter conditions, swimming tails (swum) for lower light conditions, and a wacky-rigged stick-worm for prominent isolated cover pieces that likely have fish. Maybe it's just a location thing. The post spawn females I know, (in my small waters), remain around the spawning banks. I don't fish for spawners, either males or bedded females, but I do fish just beyond the locked males, as that's where I find the females. If you are looking deep you may be missing most of them. But maybe this is appropriate in your waters my waters are mostly quite shallow. Another option, if you are fishing a large reservoir, (although you likely already know about this), is to move down lake to the deeper sections for the remaining pre-spawners, or way up lake for the first bluegill spawn. If not, I'd say that avoiding the spawning areas may simply be putting you beyond the majority of bass. Again, I too avoid fishing to bedded males and females, but the rest are fair game, and the spawning banks remain the key location, at least in my waters. I know the bluegill spawn bite you are talking about! It's a real gift. I locate 'gill colonies, then fish just beyond them. This seems to attract females, and I catch a lot of big ones at this time.

LKN, Thanks! that's what I'd have expected. I've not seen post-spawners grouped, but I wanted to check in case I'm missing something. You never know unless you ask.

OK, ready for more head-scratching??? If I could figure out how to access more emoticons I'd pop in a devil face. Anyway, as with most things in nature, the spawn is complicated (sorry!). But there are some known things: Basic needs that must be met. I'm defining the spawn as females actually dropping eggs. Males may dig nests prematurely, only to abort when conditions fail -Don't be fooled! First, background context: It's the "successful" spawns that set the limits of the bell curve (duration of spawn is one of these). There are always exceptions in nature, but the successful pass it on (and we anglers could get mighty bored targeting exceptions the tails on the curve). One of the main limitations (called selective pressures by evolutionary biologists) is young of the year (YOY) reaching sufficient size to survive the coming winter. Thus timing and duration of the spawn is important if your genes are to be passed on. In the north, this particular selective pressure is intense. Less so in the south where winter survival pressure is much relaxed. Years vary too, as you can imagine. But, in the end, there is generally a bell curve distribution, corralling the majority of bass into a spawning window. Some individuals try to push the envelope of course. Most fail, especially in the north. Selective pressures explains site fidelity too, whereby bass tend to return to the same places to spawn every year. What works is...what works! The repeaters are repeatedly successful. How the Spawn is Controlled: There is undoubtedly an endogenous (internal) rhythm at work, set the previous year. The actual timing is then mitigated by local conditions. As I presently understand it, from the scientific literature, and my own observations: -Stabilized temps >60 for egg survival. The scientific literature says that bass eggs suffer high mortality below 60F. Thus temps need to be above that if a female is to be successful. Now I'm assuming this is the "hatchery northern largemouth" (used in lab studies and stocked all over), and thus this number may not apply to surviving (and now rare) pure native strains in pockets throughout the native range, or for the Florida subspecies, although, in general, floridanus has even higher temperature requirements overall. Or possibly for some locally adapted strains of originally stocked bass I'm personally not aware of any. Temperature stabilization at appropriate temperature is a big factor in why spawning in deep bodies of water occurs later than in shallow ones, as deep waters take longer to warm. Large water bodies with several basin depths have a much longer duration of spawning as different areas heat at different rates. Huge reservoirs heat unequally too with the shallower upper areas going first, and the deeper colder lower lake coming on later. Why do late spawned YOY survive in these waters? Because massive water bodies cool slower in the fall too. Anglers mention bass spawning in water colder than 60. There are a number of possible reasons: 1) They are seeing premature bedding of males, with no females involved Not actual spawning. 2) A cold spell that likely kills a lot of eggs. 3) Females pushing the envelope. Males are always ready to oblige. 4) A population (possibly native) that has adapted to a specific environment that was able to support a shift in egg survival temp. -Long daylength It's been found in the lab that sudden short days can stop the spawn, then long days can re-start it. LMB in tropical waters (well south of their native range) spawn repeatedly all summer and suffer in size because of this they burn out. -A friend sent me some research articles from hatcheries last year that indicated that the vast majority of spawning occurs during the daylight hours, likely due to important visual cues. These papers also indicated that virtually all spawning occurred in the late afternoon and evening. An artifact of the hatchery environment? Maybe it's just a low light requirement, (as Muddy had me wondering in another post). This is something I'll be watching for this year. -Sufficient food for fat stores to turn into eggs With enough food females may even develop more eggs and spawn more than once in a given year. -Water clarity s an issue with most species because visual cues are important in the mating sequence. This is likely true with bass but I haven't seen much on this, (beyond interesting color changes in females). Events that bring high turbidity (suspended solids) can affect nest success, by suffocating eggs. Supposedly, in very clear water, bass are more apt to spawn deeper. -Proper substrate: Silt and mud will suffocate eggs, so bass seek clean bottoms and clear water, and one of the male's duties is to fan silt off the eggs. Gravel seems to be preferred but in some waters success has been met on wood, or cattail root clusters. -Water levels Receding water can stop the spawn; rising water can start it, after above criteria are met. This must be ingrained as dropping water can leave eggs stranded. Thus in many reservoirs, bass may spawn deeper than those in many natural lakes. As you can imagine water levels are also a big deal in rivers, since they can fluctuate so much. Waves can fall into this water level category I suppose: Large natural lakes exposed to wind and developing heavy waves on shorelines that destroy eggs will select out bass that spawn too shallow. In my ponds it tends to be 1 to 5 feet, with the majority on the shallow side of this. If the bass are spawning deeper in my ponds, I guess I wouldn't know if I can't see 'em. -Moon influence appears, at this point, to be angler's lore. I cannot find anything consistent, much less definitive. Angler catch data I'm not convinced is a good sampling method for assessing spawn behavior. Bias is likely high too; I know it has been for me. There may be a synchronization effect on spawn timing, with the full or new moon, when the other conditions are met. I've certainly seen intense spawning behavior under full moons, and was once sold on the idea. But I've been observing (and recording data) on spawning behavior the last couple seasons and am less enchanted about the moon. Last year the spawns in my ponds did not follow the moon, in fact if you just looked at that year, you'd say the full moon inhibited the spawn! Will be at it again this year, and next... -Dense populations of nest raiders, notably sunfish, have been known to inhibit spawning in largemouths. What's interesting is that this is not always just an abandonment of the beds by male bass, but that the bass don't even attempt to spawn, when populations of small sunfish are too high. -Where I've lived (NY and CO) the initiation of the gills spawn is the sign that the late bass have finished. But those bluegill colonies are prime feeding areas for post-spawn bass, notably large females. Don't miss fishing just outside those gill colonies.

Yeah, when they group like that and hang on the surface, and the biggest bass in the lake too(!), they are conspiring to pi$$ you off! In the good ol' days when snagging and pitchforks were AOK, they'd never have done that.

LKN, Do you think those were pre-spawn, or post spawners? Pre's will have noticeable swollen pearly bellies (eggs). Post will most likely be thin in the flanks. Any idea which they might have been? Thanks.

Muddy, I think you were just too early. You are describing post-winter conditions. I don't see sunning until later. I start seeing it when surface temps (in protected areas) approach 60. This first is the feeding binge thing. The heat-soaking females (apparently not feeding) seem to come later -during pre-spawn, or maybe it's just rarer to be in the right place at the right time when females are still grouped. So, keep watching. I see them in shallow areas protected from wind mixing and away from deep water: coves, shallow flats, inlets, and right off the shoreline, especially where there is some cover. Same for both early feeding binge fish and the later heat soaking females. Not that females don't feed during pre-spawn -they certainly do, but the difference between the two scenarios is that during the earlier "initial warm-up period" the bass and bluegills (and carp) are all squeezed into tighter quarters together. Later, as warmer water gradually reaches deeper the fish are less concentrated. But the females largemouths, when conditions are right, continue to sun, seemingly more interested in heat than food.

Catt, I think you're onto something. But you're not alone. From the Temperature Trends post: From Doug Hannon's book Big Bass Magic: So... FROG...I've got to ask: Did you really see this, or are you trolling?