Goose52

FIRST REPORT IN THE TEST SERIES (December 7, 2011): BACKGROUND: Back in February 2011 we had a lengthy thread (70 posts) on whether you could get a quality BC reel for $100. In that discussion, the BPS Pro Qualifier (PQ) reel was recommended by many board members. Other board members expressed doubt that the PQ was actually a “quality” reel and that it was unlikely to last. Some of the comments included: “disposable reel,” “cheap, unrefined,” and “probably get $75 worth of use out of a PQ if you treat it right.” One board member issued a challenge for the PQ owners to report back in 5 years (implying that the reels wouldn’t last that long). So, as the owner of 6 PQs, I accepted the challenge. My comments in that thread are here: Goose Accepts the Challenge My “highest mileage” PQ was put in service on October 26, 2009. I have a reminder in my computer that will go off on October 26, 2014 and at that time I’ll report my 5-year experience with that PQ (as well as any of my other BPS BC reels that see considerable service by then). A problem is that I now have 21 BC reels, most on rods, and that while I am fishing about 300 days a year, putting a lot of service on any one reel becomes difficult. However, for the purposes of this challenge, I will continue to use this particular BPS PQ (6.4 ratio) as my primary BC reel for the period of the challenge. As I mentioned in the earlier thread – I have excellent “catch” records but I don’t have “fishing” records. I know when I’ve caught fish using this reel but don’t have a record of how many days I’ve actually fished the reel. Also, for the purposes of this study, I will be using several assumptions, based on the catch data. Here are my assumptions for the calculations: · I average about 1 hour of fishing time per fish caught (I don’t have productive water and I fish about 1,000 hours a year and catch about 1,000 fish). · While fishing a moving bait, you will average AT LEAST 50 casts per hour – perhaps twice that with something like lipless cranks. Using these two assumptions, and knowing how many fish are caught, you can roughly calculate how many cycles (casts and retrieves) on the reel – and thus make an assessment of the degree of “use” on the reel. A problem with many reports about the durability of a reel is that the usage of the reel is undefined. For instance, someone might state that the reel has worked fine for the last 3 “seasons.” It might turn out that a “season” for that angler is once a week for the 7-8 months that they have soft water – perhaps only 30 days on the water each season – a much different “season” than someone fishing every day of the year in South Florida. Thus my attempt to use some assumptions based on the catch data to quantify the actual usage of the reel. Having said all of the above, if you’re still reading, here’s the report: INTERIM REPORT I’m making this interim report as a result of tearing down the subject PQ 6.4 for annual service. I had just begun having a problem with the line guide occasionally skipping on the worm shaft. The teardown showed wear on the line guide pawl so I replaced it ($2.10). The clutch return pawl is showing more wear than last year but is still serviceable - I’ll be watching that in future tear-downs. The drag stack is still stock and serviceable (capable of dealing with 40-pound fish). The spool bearings are probably a bit noisier than new but still serviceable. Otherwise, no other problems – no other signs of wear other than cosmetics. Due to the way I palm a reel, I’ve worn off the magnetic brake setting markings on the side of the reel (see photos). As of today, I’ve used this reel to catch fish on 148 different days, and brought in 324 fish – the largest being several 40 pound grass carp. Of the 324 fish, 302 of them were caught on lipless cranks. This is significant in that lipless cranks are typically one of the farthest casting baits, as well as one of the most quickly worked in the water – indicating somewhat more reel usage on the retrieve than other baits (due to more line out on the cast) as well as more “casts-per-hour.” Using the assumptions above: 324 fish = approximately 324 hours of use. 324 hours x 50 casts/hour = 16,200 cycles. This is a VERY conservative estimate of use – calculated only on fish caught – not on total days/hours used. There were many times where this reel was fished but there were no catches - this reel could have easily been fished for 200 or more days. Also, since it’s possible that there were often more than 50 casts/hour – the actual cycles on the reel could easily be in the 25,000 range (or more) - can’t say for sure. So, is 16,200 (or more) cycles a lot? Probably not for some, but it could represent years of use for others. Anyway, there you have it – a quantification of use, albeit with some ROM assumptions. More reports to follow if I have any failures or replace any more parts on the reel. Getting back to the original thread this past February, can you get a quality baitcaster for $100 – the answer is sure. The PQ is one, but not the only option. Is the PQ disposable? I don’t think so. Is the PQ cheap and unrefined? Perhaps – compared with some $200 reels (OTOH, the Lew’s Tournament Pro that many are fawning about has essentially the same lockwork design as the PQ so if the PQ has an unrefined design, then so does the Lew’s reel – lol). Will the PQ give $75 worth of service? To me it already has, and much more (AND, my average cost for my 6 PQs is about $64 per reel so I’ve already “made money” on this one!). Finally, will the PQ last 5 years. Well, this one has already lasted for 5 “seasons” for those folks that might only fish 30 times a year. Will it last 5 years at my usage rate? Time will tell…

The test reel for the PQ 5-Year Challenge hit its fifth service anniversary on October 26 (today), thus completing the 5 Year Challenge. The reel is still in service, most recently this morning. Background: Briefly, the 5-Year Challenge resulted from some board members expressing the opinion that the PQ reel was a “one-season” reel (it would be completely worn out after a "season"), and certainly wouldn’t stay in an angler’s arsenal for as long as 5 years. The subject reel was used to test those opinions. Posts 2 through 6 of this thread reproduce the content of the earlier reports. Below are links to the other threads in this series in the event that someone is interested in the previous commentary related to these test reports. : BPS Pro Qualifier BC Reel – 5 Year Challenge – Interim Report (12-7-2011) BPS Pro Qualifier BC Reel – 5-Year Challenge – A Speed-Bump On The Road To Paradise BPS Pro Qualifier BC Reel – 5-Year Challenge – Three Years In BPS Pro Qualifier BC Reel – 5-Year Challenge – Time To Pay The Piper! BPS Pro Qualifier BC Reel – 5-Year Challenge – 4 Years Down, 1 To Go Current Statistics: Reel placed into service: 26 Oct. 2009 Months of service as of this report: 60 Number of “catch days” (days when fish were caught with this reel): 502 Number of fish caught: 1114 Baits used for the 1114 fish caught: Lipless Cranks - 804, Misc. Hardbaits - 21, Soft Plastics - 289 Biggest fish caught: 48.6 lb grass carp Biggest bass caught: 9.5 lb LMB Number of cycles (casts & retrieves): 55,000+ (see note) Note: Number of cycles is based on catch data, not on total days/hours of use (see Post #2 or the linked 12-7-2011 thread for how the metrics were established). The reel was used many days where no fish were caught, especially during the winter months. I fish this reel nearly every day and actual number of use days probably easily exceeds 1000. Actual number of cycles could easily be in excess of 75,000. As I have mentioned in the last several reports, the passage of years of time has made it difficult to calculate the number of accrued cycles on this reel due to the significant number of days where it is fished, but no fish are caught – resulting in thousands of uncounted cycles. The biggest fish over the 5 year period - 48 pound grass carp: Biggest bass caught over the 5 year period - 9.5 pound LMB: Significant Events In the Last Year: The reel has been mostly trouble-free for the past year but certain operational aspects of the reel (clutch actuation, centrifugal braking) are being compromised due to increasing wear (see the Current Condition section below). The biggest bass caught with the reel during the past year was this 25", but emaciated, 6.28 pound LMB: Previous Maintenance/Repairs: December 2010 – Annual cleaning. December 2011 – Annual cleaning. Replacement of line guide pawl at about 26 months of use. Interesting factoid – the pawl had probably made at least 320,000 passes across the worm shaft at the time of replacement. July 2012 – Repairs / cleaning (see Post #3 of this thread or the "A Speed-Bump On The Road To Paradise" thread linked above): Repair 1 – debris jammed the line guide pawl causing the pawl to create a burr on the worm shaft. Filed off the burr and thoroughly cleaned the reel. Repair 2 – centrifugal brake wear – replaced the palm-side sideplate assembly. January 2013 - Repair / cleaning / upgrade (see Post #5 of this thread or the "Time To Pay The Piper" thread linked above): Repair – replaced the worm shaft, line guide pawl, and two idler gears. Upgrade – replaced the stock drag washers with Carbontex washers. October 2013 – Annual cleaning. October 2014 - Annual cleaning. Current Condition: The condition of the internal parts of the reel have been mostly the same for several years. There is wear on the clutch return pawl (from impact by the rachet) that doesn't affect function, the rear and side surfaces of the clutch thumb bar have started to wear through the plastic plating, the brake drum and brake shoes show considerable (nearly unserviceable) wear, and the grooving on the frame reported last year has increased. Externally, the reel has some minor rash on the top of the reel, very little on the sides. As I mentioned last year, the spool bearings are noisy but spin well when cleaned. If you are familiar with the whine made by Shimano Digital Control reels during a cast…that’s sorta the noise I hear when I cast this PQ – you get the audio experience of a DC reel without the high cost… Otherwise, the reel is fishable, but it’s readily apparent that you are not fishing with a new, tight reel. As I mention with every report, this reel has not been babied, and has often been rode hard and put away wet. In winter, the reel is frequently rode hard and put away frozen, with ice still in the line guide when taking the rod out of the trunk of the car. The reel has been placed on the ground hundreds of times while I measure/weigh fish, providing the opportunity for grit and debris to enter the worm shaft area and around the clutch bar - contributing to some of the wear in these areas. Handle Knob Wear: While the reel has little exterior rash, some of the markings are wearing off. The real exterior indicator of the amount of use the reel has seen are the handle knobs. These EVA knobs have been on the reel for only three years and the grooving has nearly disappeared from wear: Centrifugal Braking System Wear: This is the Achilles heel of this reel. The brass brake drum is soft, and wears easily, even when kept reasonably clean. BPS does NOT list the drum as a lubrication point - but they should. The captive brake shoes are small, wear easily, and are not available as spare parts. The only way to get replacement brake shoes is to purchase the entire spool assembly. I had already replaced the palm-side sideplate assembly in July 2012 due to brake drum wear. Now, 27 months later, the brake drum grooving is back. The brake shoes are original to the reel, but have now worn to the point where they are becoming ineffective, especially in combination with the brake drum grooving. Whereas when the reel was new, I would use two, sometimes only one, centrifugal brake, I now have to use four, sometimes 5 to achieve the same braking. Current brake drum grooving: New brake shoe: Current condition brake shoe: Frame Wear: This was first reported last year and the wear has increased since then. In the photo below, note the vertical grooves (indicated by the red arrows) cut in the frame by the “legs” on the bottom of the clutch bar - this entire area of the frame should be completely flat. The clutch bar is a plastic part but it does have some sort of plating on it. That plating, with perhaps the addition of grit and grime under the bar, have been enough to actually groove the aluminum frame. Thus, plastic trumps aluminum in this case. This condition results in the clutch bar being loose and making clutch operation somewhat dodgy at times. This condition potentially could be a source of an eventual frame crack. Summary: After 60 months of use, where are we at? Parts replacements: Parts replaced due to wear: (necessary) 1 line guide pawl, (optional) original drag washers Parts replaced due to damage caused by debris: (necessary) worm shaft, line guide pawl, (optional) idler gears Parts replaced (probably) due to my failure to maintain: palm-side sideplate assembly (to replace the brake drum) Parts ordered and installed but did not fix the problem: clutch bar and shims Lessons learned: Keep the brake drum CLEAN and appy lube to the drum to prevent premature wear. Accept that the dual-braking system (DBS), along with its advantages, has some disadvantages - added complexity and potential wear to parts that are not readily replaceable - like the brake shoes. Closing: That's it - the final report of the 5 Year Challenge. I'll leave it up to each board member to compare the usage that this reel has received, to their own fishing patterns, to determine how this reel would fare in their own service. For me? Well, the reel cost $80, caught 1114 fish, at a cost per fish of 7.1 cents. It reeled in my current LMB 9.5lb PB. It reeled in multiple grass carp in the 35-50 pound range. Value delivered for me. AND, the reel is not done working for living. There is a winter coming up and this reel will fish through the winter, as long as the braking system holds up and the frame doesn't crack. Next spring, the PQ will likely be retired to a nice warm place in my display cabinet. The near future for the test PQ... Epilogue: Five years ago, the PQ was an outstanding choice for a value, workhorse baitcasting reel. Offered in four ratios, in both right- and left-hand, eight models total. Something for everyone. However, time, and technology, keep marching on. Today, the PQ still offers value at it's price point, and this test has proven that it is capable of offering long service. BUT, there are other competitors in the playing field to challenge the PQ, and BPS is falling behind on it's bread-and-butter model. While not a competitor at factory list price, the Daiwa Tatula at the "deal" prices is a game changer and something that BPS will have a hard time competing with. It will be interesting to see what BPS develops as the successor to the current PQ. One thing for SURE, the 'ole Goose will not be running any more 5 year tests on any future model PQs!

Thanks! Yeah - I put it on the green NRX primarily for color coordination. Fished it with plastic worms a few times, caught a few bass, but one could grow OLD (and I'm already old enough) taking up slack line with the IPT on that reel. SO, if you notice the last photo, the reel is now on a Legend Xtreme 7'2" MM cranking rod - a much better match-up functionally, and the color match is pretty good as well. The 16 IPT is still slower than I would prefer for general cranking but it worked well in the boat today and seems to be handy for cold-water cranking where you probably should be slowing down a bit. This CDL will be an occasional use reel, kept stock, and will probably live mostly on display. I've already got a couple Calcutta 50XTs on hand that are almost as slow as the 2500 and can handle the occasional slow-cranking role. Still, I can see a "beater" 2500 in my future that I can hot-rod a bit...

The Ambassadeur squadron just added another member. To join the old-school 5000 and 1500, and the new-age Morrum ZX3600, is a "new-old" 2500CDL. This was from a special run of 100 that was released in 2012 and patterned on the original 2500CDL teal and gold model released in the late 1970's. I remember thinking 35 years ago that the 2500CDLs looked a bit guady but I guess in my old age my tastes have changed. Not an everyday use kind of finish...but sorta elegant. She might be wearing fancy pants...but everyone's gotta fish for a living. Seems to work - reels in fish...

PRL05HC, the third, and final, model of the original Prolite Finesse line... To the OP - sorry for drifting on your topic.

Just FYI - the original BPS "Prolite Finesse" reels (with the reputation for being good for lighter baits) were gold in color. Since the original Prolites were discontinued in 2009, BPS has recycled the Prolite name at least twice - each time with a reel that has practically nothing in common with the original Prolite. One has to pay attention to which Prolite one is referring to....

I target bass and actually have very few (statistically) collateral catches. For instance, I'm a bit over 1,500 fish caught this year and only about 40 were NOT largemouth bass. If I hadn't used my ultralight spinning rod a few times, it would have only been about 20-25 collateral catches. Largest collateral catch? 48 pound grass carp:

NICE reel. A Met is on my purchase "waiting list"...

Still have the rod and reel (the PQ 5-Year Challenge test reel) in service. The bait used (1/2 oz lipless crank) is on disply in the den/office/bunker/man cave.

Yeah - the problem now is getting time-on-water with any particular combo. I'm up to 47 BC reels, and 37 of those are on rods at the moment. Even though I fish every day, there's just not enough days in a year to get a lot of mileage on all the gear. AND, the PQ 5-Year Challenge is still going on and I try to fish it nearly every day so some of the other gear gets left on the rack. AND, while I'm at 1,467 bass caught so far this year, I actually catch more than half of them on spinning gear so that's even less chance for the BC gear to score. Just about all the round reels shown have scored fish (I've got 2 50XTs and a 100XT that still need to score) - but it varies from a couple to over 100, depending on the reel. I've had the Morrum for about 3 weeks and have only had time to get 8 fish with it. This year, the two most used round reels are probably one of the Conquest 50s and the CTE-100DC. I started using the 100DC as my main cranking reel on September 7 and have scored 39 bass (and one 38.5 pound grass carp) with it in the last month. I still have a bunch more cranking outfits to put mileage on this year though so the 100DC will have to go back on the rack soon, AND, the season is winding down now so there won't be much "catching" left for this year. So much gear, so little time.

I'm an amateur compared to Maico1.......

Hey Andy - so many reels, so little time.......................................!

THANKS ! It IS a very nice reel - I'm glad I bought it (but see the following!). I'm not noticing any "geariness" in the Morrum...but then, I'm not too particular that way. The clutch bar has a little play when the clutch is disengaged but again, nothing I noticed until you asked and I wiggled it a bit. They are both very nice reels, both have advanced braking systems, and both cast very well as a result. My CQ100-14 certainly palms smaller but then the Morrum has a line capacity greater than a CQ200-14 so it should palm a bit big. At the end of the day, I think you buy the Morrum if you really want/need the higher IPT. Otherwise, and especially if one didn't have any high-end round reels, I would certainly recommend that they buy the Conquest first, over the Morrum. The Conquest just exudes that solid, quality feeling, more so than the Morrum. For me personally? I REALLY wanted the IPT offered by the Morrum and will be putting it to good use. And, I felt I had enough Conquest/Calcutta gear on hand to cover my needs for a while...at least until a 50-size Conquest 14 is released...

Thanks! They're always fun...

Just like A-Jay's post above, I have an old-and-new post.... The new generation has arrived to join the oldsters... Early 1960s Ambassadeur 5000, 1978 Ambassadeur 1500C, brand spankin' new Ambassadeur Morrum ZX3600: IVCB-4 braking system - it's a GREAT casting machine. Palms OK for me (about like a 100-size Calcutta) but the edges on the sideplate could be radiused a bit more. 6.3:1 gearing - 28" IPT - VERY cool. I wish there were more round reels with higher IPTs. It gets the ultimate approval rating - it works, reels in fish...

I wonder why trolling motors are called "trolling" motors....

Good luck - I hope you catch a big one! This IS a bass fishing board so bass have to be considered as the preferred species...BUT, while I target bass, I'm always open to anything else that wants to tug the end of my line. This ONE grass carp probably pulled more drag than all the bass that I will catch for the rest of my life...

Strike King's "orange belly craw" has worked well for me. I have it on Red Eye Shads and on 1.5 squarebills. Otherwise, like Bluebasser86, I really like the various craw patterns on Wiggle Warts.

Thanks again guys! Thanks Dwight - don't know if I'm the king now but I felt like it back in April 2012 when I caught two monsters the same day - two hours of drag slipping, fish fighting fun. I ended up landing five grass carp that year. Speaking of tackle, this is actually the first grass carp that I've brought in using a Shimano reel (CTE-100DC). All the other grass carp I've landed have been with BPS PQ reels... :lol: Yes, I know, I perform the impossible all the time - landing 35-50 pound fish using a PQ with 10lb line and the well-known pitiful factory drag...

Thanks guys - it was a fun fish! Thanks! This is actually the first grass carp that I've snagged from the boat, and the first on a lipped crank. I always thought a lipped crank would deflect off the fish but this one had a solid snag in the tail fin. I've caught quite a few of these from the bank - all on lipless cranks over grass - you've probably seen the photos I've posted over the past few years. Even on 10lb test, I can usually get them back to the bank within 20-25 minutes...but then what? Don't have a net big enough and I don't carry a fish grip when bank fishing. So, it takes more time to tire the fish to the point where I can drag it into shallow enough water to be able to wade out and grab it by the gill plate. Usually, when the fish sees it's getting that shallow, it makes another run. Sometimes it can take quite a while to land these guys. I caught two grass carp on the same day (April 26 2012) and one (44lbs) took 1hr 9 minutes to land, the other (48lbs) took 53 minutes. Over two hours of "fish-fighting" in one day! I think this fish was more comfortable letting me get the boat close enough to grab it with the fish grip as it was still in about 20 fow and didn't start to freak out by getting dragged into skinny water like when I'm fishing from the bank. AND, the fish grip was the key to get it into the boat. NOW, how the heck do YOU manage to land those monster catfish from the bank? I've seen one of your photos holding a monster cat and always wondered how you land those things. Do you use the noodling method...

Thanks Andy! Good point on the tackle, line, and knots. Just before hooking the grass carp, I had been fishing a lipless crank across the grass on the point with a reel that had 15lb Big Game on it. When I had the carp on, my first thought was that I was still fishing with the 15 BG line and started to feel a bit more comfortable. Then I remembered, I switched to a cranking rod just a few casts before hooking the carp. While watching the action on the water, I felt the line with my fingers and immediately knew that I didn't have 15lb line. I glanced down and saw that pale green color of Yo-Zuri Ultrasoft - that meant 10lb line. So, I backed the drag off a bit (to protect the line and the hookup) and then had to trust the line and the last knot I tied (three bass before). Looks like tackle, line, knots, and angler made it through OK...

So I'm in the canoe today and start cranking the approaches to a small cove. I'm tossing a Norman Deep Little N on a 7'6" medium-power Crankin' Stick with a Shimano CTE-100DC with 10lb YZ line. BAM - hook-up. Drag pulled. Big bass I'm thinking. Drag pulled twice more. REALLY BIG bass I'm thinking. Then line starts peeling off the reel, the drag is singing, and I realize...not a bass. Then I think, REALLY BIG catfish. The fish pulls the canoe around 180 degrees as it heads for deep water. I enjoy the boat ride for a while - letting the fish fight the drag. I'm getting towed at a pretty good clip right out of the cove, around a point, then starting to go into another cove. THEN, I see the fish breach and come half-way out of the water, roll, then back down deep.............and I realize it's a big honkin' grass carp. At this point, I could see I had way too much line out (over 50 yards) so I start to chase the fish down with the boat. I get close to the fish and every time I get it close to the boat it makes another run. The fish is foul-hooked in the tail so I have to tire the fish enough so I can get it on top, parallel to the hull of the canoe, so I have access to the mouth and can grab it with a "fish grip" tool. Each time I get the fish close, another short run. Finally, after about four tries, I got the mouth near the boat, lock on the fish grip, and pull it into the boat. 21 minutes from hook-up to landing. 43 inches, 38.5 pounds. Not the biggest grass carp I've caught...but they're ALWAYS fun to catch. After I get the length, weight, and photo, it's time to get it back in the water. Last look is the tiny mouth and beady eyes.. Release the fish grip and away she goes. Thanks for the fight !

Nice reels; they work, catch fish...

A 5" stick worm is almost too heavy for ML, everything else you mentioned sounds mostly like ML-XF. My St. Croix LTB 6'9" ML-XF is even labeled as a dropshot rod.

I have a PX Type R on a Recon...but it's the C682L light-power - a very nice rod for the money. I would bet the ML-power Recons are nice as well. One of these days I might move the PX Type R over to an ML rod and put one of my Pixies on the L-power Recon (note to self). I do have a total of 5 ML-power BC rods (recently down from 6) from 6' to 7' in length, including both the Avid and LTB 6'9" ML-XF rods. They are fun rods to use when conditions are right for them. There's also lots of other very good rod suggestions above. I might try that Tatula rod one of these days but that would put me back up to 6 ML rods again - perhaps more than I need... To narrow it down, you might want to zoom in on the baits you want to toss, which would get you closer to identifying the action (M, MF, F, XF), and then get closer to picking a rod. So many rods, so little time!