Capt.Bob

sorry to say the rods you are talking about I won't own, I have seen how great they perform by those who own them! They are made in MEXICO! they are made with MUCH CHEAPER COMPONANTS! They say St. Croix and are the only ST. COIX RODS that ST CROIX WON"T BUILD in there Park Falls Factory! As a Licensed State Fishing Guide and owner of a Lake Erie Charter Service I have witnessed many rods consumers call GOOD RODS, and I will assure these GOOD RODS, are what make all St. Croix rods built in there factory in Park Falls GREAT RODS, from the GREAT Premier Series, all the way to GREATEST LEGEND ELITE & EXTREME! I witnessed these import rods bearing their name and have witnessed the same type performance we are reading about from the OP here. If you haven't had any problems with yours, we are all aware the fact that "EVEN A BLIND PIG GET"S AN ACORN ONCE IN A WHILE", this just means you are one of the lucky ones, or we would be reading about the problems you are having also!! In another twenty years get back with me and tell me how they held up, I'm sure my Premier's Avids, and Legends will still be going strong and some have made the first 20 years already! It will be a cold day somewhere I hate to think of, when I am willing to spend my American Dollar on when the Company I buy from is making the the same type of products here, just because it cost less, and as we have seen fails more!! No thanks I will take the chance that I will get the same quality I am accustom to buying from the models built buy the American Craftsman that have a reputation of hardly ever letting a bad one get out!! Unlike seeing and hearing about the ones coming from MEXICO which quite frequently are poor quality built with issues! Those are the FACT'S, and why we are reading this thread! like I said far more issues with import Croix's than Domestic's! If your's is a good one you are one lucky fellow, as a Charter Captain I learned a long time ago I can't afford to rely on LUCK, so I'll have to rely on AMERICAN CRAFTSMAN to supply my ST. Croix! If you don't want to do that remember what I said in my first post when it fails. "this is just what I would expect"!

I would go with no less than 4 feet, but I like 8-12' that way I don't have to retie with a new leader for the whole day, USUALLY. But there are times in certain waters that break offs can be frequent enough that rule doesn't apply. But the longer you make it. the longer it will last. As far as other brands, I am not sure but the Seaguar is about the best you will find for the price, I went to ebay and bought 4,8,12,25, that way I have everything covered with any outfit I have. If i need more than that it's for toothy predators, and in that case I manufacture hand made custom Ball bearing Fluorocarbon leaders with Berkley Cross locks snaps and usually run 20" on 100# viscous Pro Elitea and 65# Braid, on brood waters, 130# test with heavier swivels and locks, as 30+ pound Muskie in weed infested water need to be subdued quickly, and even then can be a chore to winch in when they have a ton of vegetables served up with them!

Vanish would not be a line I would recamend, and all I use is Berkely Line. Buy a small spool of Seaguar !nvisex, I believe it comes in 50 yard spools, that should last all this year, for knot's learn the blood knot, the double Uni-knot will work, but the blood knot is tapered at both ends and it flows through the guides much smoother. It is all I use.

Dedicated patience, hope it's still there, and I believe if you don't want it at that price, recouping your money is most definitely assured!!

That is a good point Jay, so even if not it would still be an improvement. Thanks for the reply

Very Good review A-Jay!!! I was afraid you were going to say that. The last thing I need is a reason to buy more reels this year. One thing I would like to know though, when the levelwind dissengages for the cast, does it float or just quit turning like on the B!! I agree with Dwight, you should be there next candidate to be put on there staff! Thanks for the detailed review!!!!

What QUAKEnSHAKE said, they are so much more sensative you can even hear more with em!! So with the extreme you'll probably here them comming before you feel em!! I currently own over 15 Avid's and Elites, never had a problem and some of those have had braid on them for over 15 years. But every Avid I have I will gladly trade for an Elite, and as much as I hate split grips, I'd trade for the Extreme too!! Get the Extreme you deserve it! Get the extreme, and Fish the best! you'll think it's a dream, and forget the rest!

Same here, if the knot joining the leader is a problem for some it isn't the knot's fault! I know way too many fisherman that use a leader with braid, most never loose there braid, this just means the leader is working, it also means if you are loosing your knot at the braid, your using the wrong knot or need more practice tying it. The benefits of braid, better casting, absolute best sensitivity, no stretch, ability to use lighter lures, with thinner limper line you have better lure control, unaffected by weather temp, UV, hot, cold, zero memory, I really can't see how these aspects of fishing aren't worth it. I have a reason most don't, I'm cheap! I like to use the cheapest thing that works! In the last 15 or so years I have proven that it has been a lot cheaper to use braid than anything else, it usually last me about 4 years before I have to respool. But I always hassle with running a leader!

My Stradic FJ 1000 on a 6'3" St Croix MXF for shallow finesse rigging or my 2500 FJon a 6'8" MXF for deeper water. The only thing I use for tubes and grubs for Smallmouth in the river or on the flats is the 6'3" MXF and I think I have better feel with the spinning rod. I do use my right hand to hold my spinning gear and reel with my left, I am right handed, but when I through my baitcasting outfits I cast right handed but change hands after the cast and reel with my right hand, cant hold a baitcast in my right hand, maybe that's why the Spinning gear is so much more sensitive for me, I use it in my right hand??

I have 3 Extreme rods by Bass Pro, 7' MF, 5'6" LF, and 5.6" ULF, ove 10 year old and still in good shape, corks, wraps, and guide's. Like said before not the best but awfull hard to beat for the price!

The New Stradics are the best reels on the market, I sold my Ci4 and older Stradics, they are old technology!! This year and went with the new FJ model, because they are smoother have more power and stronger than the Ci4, they have more upgrades and you can feel it the first time you use them, If you don't want the best available spinning reel made for less than $250.00 don't buy it, if you want the best this is your real, for $136.00 you can't believe how good a spinning reel can be! I wouldn't trade mine for anything you listed! and Ive used them. go here and thank me when you get it!! http://www.ebay.com/...=item3f1a431326

The main thing is the Extreme is a much better blank, it uses better guides that are harder and lighter, gives you better feel and it is lighter to make it even more electrifying in your hand. I own a Legend tournament 6'8"MXF, and it is a very nice rod, I don't like the split cork but that is personal, I own a legend Elite 6'6mf and it is much more sensitive, and really is a great rod!! If I were you and could spend 60 dollars extra, it would be a no brainer, get the Extreme and thank me after you use it!! I know it is easy to spend someone else's money but the Legend Tournament series is much closer to the Avid Series than it is to the Legend Elite or Extreme. and those are ridiculous prices, I can't believe there still left at that price! I'd jump on that Extreme you wont regret it!

I'm sorry to hear about the rods, but have to say that is exactly what I would expect since they are not really the St. Croix rods we usually talk about. The Rage, Mojo, Eyecon, Triumph, and Panfish series I don't consider St. Croix rods. The are all made in Mexico, not what the St. Croix brand is known for and will never see a lifetime warranty! I have said all along the Premier series, is a much better rod than any that I mentioned here!. The REAL St. Croix rods are 100% designed and built in the USA by real craftsman!! They start with the Premier Series all the way up thru the Legend Extreme, and out of the over 15 Premier's Avid's and Legend's I own I have had one problem and that was a stupid move on my part, when I sat a Legend Elite on the Cap of my truck and it fell off, never scratched the rod or the reel, but one of the guides landed on a rock and it shattered the guide insert, cost me $10.00 to print shipping to St. Croix and it was taken care of no questions asked!! You get what you pay, if you just want a rod that says St. Croix on it, well you been there! If you want one that say's St. Croix and is the real Mcoy!! if I were you, I would upgrade to the American made Avid series, or myself would rather have the Legend Elite, and experience what made St. Croix great, a real St. Croix, made right here in America with American Craftsman.

I have seen a lot a guys tie straight to braid and when the break it, it usually doesn't break at the knot, so how ever many feet of line is broke of its there till ....................................., that right who knows when, till a prop wraps it into a seal, or water fowl get tangled and strangled, who knows but on thing is for sure, it aint gonna rot. I will always use a leader!! and if I ever loose any braid it is because I trimmed it! I'll know what happens to it.

I couldn't say it better!

I would never run heavier than 20# test braid on a spinning reel. I put that on 4000 size shimano's. you will suffer big time with casting distance going heavier, and even with the twenty you will probably straighten a hook out if you are on a snag on the bottom, and have to wrap a rag around your hand to wrap the line on if you have to break it, or risk deep cuts, this is another reason for a leader. Then if your going to use a leader now you have 6-12 # test leader that is taking all the nicks and abrasions so why the heavy braid?? With lighter braid you can use lighter weights , be it jigs drop shot whatever, and do the same job you do with heavier braid and heavier weights. with the lighter tackle you have more control. If your reel is smaller like my 2500 size Shimano's I would not use over 15# test, still can run 6-12 # test leader and they will still work for you, and you never loose mainline. This is what makes Braid the cheapest line to use you can buy. It is the only line that is unaffected by the elements. It wont rot and uv doesn't affect it. Most run the same spool for 3 years or more. If you use Braid run 6-10 wraps of mono on your empty spool then use a Blood Knot or a double Uni Knot to join the braid to it, this keeps it from slipping on your spool, and in colder climates this is more of a problem, the few wraps of mono against the spool eliminates slippage. I have over 20 outfits rigged, bait casting, and spinning, and they are all rigged this way, I usually after 2 or 3 years turn the line around on my reels and have brand new line that was never used against the backing as my new line at my end for my leaders. that's 4 to 6 years use for 20 dollars worth of line!!! that's pretty economical. There is what I do and why. I prefer the new Fireline Braid. I also like the Sufix and my third choice would be Power Pro. any one of the three are very good choices. Just don't rig for deep sea, and handicap yourself.

X2

over the years we've had a lot of people on our boat (4-6 a trip), fishing for Walleye and Small Mouth, some using there own gear and I can't say every time the ones using leaders on braid did better than the ones using straight braid, but I saw enough to prove to me the odds were in the favor of using a Fluoro or mono leader. I say Fluoro or mono, because we tried that boo koo times to see if one mattered over the other and it really didn't seem to matter enough to tell which one was better.

I have a few fiends with older Sahara's 1000 to 4000, they are all happy. I would go with the FD, but that is because I prefer the Aluminum Frame, the new FE is a graphite frame, you can shave some weight but as far as upgrades on the Sahara I think it is a step backwards. If there was a problem that might explain the "new STAMPED" bail, but they didn't upgrade it to the one piece bail used on the Symetre and higher grade models?? No X Ship either! The difference 2000 and 3000 on all Shimanos is a deeper cut spool, nothing more, it uses the same body, the same gears, and the same drag. If there is a problem with the line pickup on the roller bearing, none of the guy's I know have had a problem??

I caught one once, that was all it took, 10x more fun than Large Mouth, I really love fishing fast water for em, just because it's a ball!

If I had one bait for Smallmouth it would be a Tube 4" (watermelon seed) and the grub 2nd.

It is a very nice reel for finesse technique's I would put on on a MF 7' or my favorite, 6'8" MXF. It would be excellent,for tubes for small mouth and light line unweighted plastics and finesse rigging with either on of these rods. If you want a rig for any of these situations, you will be happy with it.

Thanks for pointing that out DVT, that was my point. I have seen guys try to lube drag washers with marine grease, then when you finally get them degrease, (which is a chore with some of them super tacky blue wheel bearing greases), and their reels serviced with the proper grease and oil in the proper places they think you have installed new parts, Thay can't believe how smooth everything works. There are oils that you don't want in bearings also, and can really be detrimental to performance, I now over the years I have been servicing reels I have seen people do a lot of things to make there own "secret formula" that made my job of servicing there equipment much more difficult. And although it doesn't usually destroy the parts, be it bearings, drags or plastic parts, it can, and at times it is cheaper to replace them than trying to prep them for reuse. Some of these additives I know will attack plastic, mainly solvent added to oils, this makes them more capable of being absorbed into the metals, but people use them where they can get into plastic where they ruin parts. sThen there are as stated different micro solid's added that clump when mixed, I can't even spell some of them but there are many, so these are the things I was referring to about a chemist, but mainly wanted to bring attention to those new to servicing there own equipment, to make sure you use the proper lube for the purpose it is intended for, and all oil isn't compatible, they may work great by themselves and be compatible with some other oils, but can be detrimental when mixed with some oils. Why I say I don't mix oil's, I relube with the same product or flush and start over. So if you didn't service your real don't just add your favorite lube without being sure what is already used in it, if you can't be sure, flush it and start from scratch, or have it professionally serviced, and whoever does the service will tell you what they used and can furnish you with the same thing. Your results will be much better and you won't have to wonder why it isn't helping when the wrong products are mixed!

Welcome Larry, good to have you aboard, plus the information you bring is always welcome! Now we need someone that knows a little about the chemistry of oil to explain the problems associated with mixing oils and comparability problems. I don't know enough about them so whenever I change to a different lube I flush them and start fresh.

The Shimano oil would slow them down, the "Oust Met-OL" that Ghoti referenced, is much thinner and made to work with ceramic bearings, Tournament Rocket Fuel is another that shouldn't slow them down, but requires reaplication much more often. I have one reel with Orange Seals, there sweet but I won't put them in my reels again, there just isn't enough gain to justify their price to me over the same quality abec7 stainless bearings, with the proper lubes from the same supplier, and I love (S concept) strong, Silent, smooth, not to mention reliable, and the Stainless are half the price. I think you will find there are several lubes on the market that will work well with ceramic bearings and won't hinder there performance, but they don't give these lubricants away. Some not so experienced users may spend less time trying to keep from making birds nest, and be better off by taming the bearings down with a little heavier lube until they get used to "real free spool", and that is when you turn all their brakes and tension off. When you get everything "tuned" you should be able to run with no braking and no tension on you spool, for some it may be running dry ceramics, and that's great, for most lube will help, the heavier the viscosity the better the braking. but you haven't found your TUNE till your running a completely free spool. Like I said, since this is Vinny's first Boca OS adventure, it would be very wise to turn on an extra brake or two the first few cast!