TommyBass

Its officially legal in Indiana now. The DNR passed some new legislation on it this week specifically for this issue. It was kind of in the air previously, as it was not actually covered in the law. We have a two hook per line law, but it was murky on if the rig is considered one or multiple baits. We still have a 2 hook per line law, but they expanded our laws to allow for 'harnesses' or 'rigs' to have up to but no more than 5 hooks. They made this a temporary revision and are going to revisit the issue in January of 2013 to see how its effecting our states waters. Its funny how you can use that, but no more than two soft jerkbaits tied to a single line or two jigs on your drop shot, LOL. Looks like 2012 is going to be the year of the umbrella rig.

Virbrating zoom chunk, regular zoom chunk, and paca craws all top my list. Rage trailers catch fish, and they are good too. The issue I have with them is their cost-to-benefit ratio. They are high priced and extremely fragile compared to other top contenders. No doubt they work, but my pinchers get pulled off constantly and for that price its hard to stomach it. If your fishing an area with all 5lb fish and no small ones or gills to pick at your trailer, they would be a little better choice. I prefer those others because they have similar catch rates (especially the paca and vibrating zoom) and are cheaper priced. For the most part they are more durable as well. Sometimes I'll throw on the tail section of my favorite worm, but not often. Yum money craws also are a good beefed up choice.

Too windy for the fish? No. For you? YES. Safety should be your #1 priority. Lake size, depth, and orientation all play into how it will react to the wind. Wind direction also matters for your specific lake. I have one lake near that is almost unfishable with anything over 15 mph sustained from a certain direction, but other directions its fine up to 25mph. Just be careful, watch your forecast, and know your lake. Your boat will play a huge role in this to. Other than that, if your safe and you can manage the sometimes hair pulling stress of boat control, go for it. You may have some of your best outings! Or at least your partner will, since he can just sit in the back and have fun while you fight the wind.

I agree both fish and fisherman will survive. Like I said, I don't think we have to worry too much about people commercially fishing largemouth on the recreational scene. Its already to the point where it will be impossible to police on a recreational level. DNR would have to sit back and observe every boat on every lake. From a distance its kind of hard to tell what they are throwing sometimes, looks like a large swimbait on the splash etc. From a 'fun fishing' standpoint... I don't think a whole lot needs to be done other than following state laws. My argument is more for the tournament and competitive angle. Well see how it plays out. I'll use it in a tournament if I have to, I'm not going to bow down to a whipping if someone else is using it to beat me. I can't wait to see how many guys have them on their decks come later winter early spring tournaments. Then sit there all proud and talk like they discovered it or something LOL. Theres one thing we can all agree on, that this is making one heck of a splash.

JFrancho you need to read slower... I didn't say I used it on smallies. I don't even have smallmouth here in this part of the state. Im just saying reports are showing its killing them as well. My personal experience is only largemouth. I agree your capitalizing on time. Your throwing something that is effective or more so than something someone else is throwing thats been practicing it for years. Thats my point... why should you be rewarded monetarily in a tournament because you picked this technique up a week before the tourney and beat people who were better fisherman? If they have years of experience crankbait fishing thta is completely negated by the presence of this lure, then theres and issue. Its not because you would have been a more skilled angler. Not saying you in particular are not, but thats just an example. It flat out lets less skilled anglers do 3-4-500% better in many situations. Lets just put everyone on an even playing field and give out hugs and participation trophys.

RoadWarrior I'm confused... are you for or against this in tournament use? Or undeceided? The stats you are putting out there only prove my point more. That many more double digit bass, yet this thing still takes skill? haha Northern lakes will have the same results... its proving just as deady on smallies as well.

Are you not arguing against yourself right there @JFrancho? Your basically saying I hope you guys continue to dislike it and not use it, so people like you can capitalize on its over effectiveness...? I HAVE used it and it IS THAT EASY. Its a game changer to anyone seriously fishing. I'd almost guarentee somone can go out and throw this for the first time and catch more and bigger fish than anything else they would use that day. Not 100% of course, but again, enough to make it troubling. Someone earlier mentioned the GPS and fish finders etc. I feel the exact same way... giving someone a preloaded NAVIONICS chip with finite depth detail also gives a disavantage. Thats why everyone uses them now... its stupid what this sport has become. Everyone wants that extra edge or thinks they need this and that. The trouble is, enough of this stuff loads the odds enough in their favor it requires even the resistant ones to buy and use the same stuff, in order to keep the field level. People just want 'easy' and have lost the way in doing work themselves.

Haha... ironically to this conversation... it was KVD that was hit hard by the 'rig' in Major League Fishing. Granted he backed off and tried new stuff after he virtually guarenteed himself a passage, but Quinns 'rig' blew the competition out. Also ironically, Quinn basically sucked pond water until he tied that on.

I agree, I don't like the senko either. But it didn't revolutionize the way this has. The senko is still a rubber worm. And it covers FAR less water. The umbrella rig is a whole different system for fishing with multiple hooks and you cover tons of water. If we changed it to only allowing one hook per rig, then it would be a little better, but I think even using dummy baits is a stretch for the sport. Athletes shouldn't be allowed to use PEDs to help make themselves as good at the elite. Fishing isn't any different. I don't think "because it lets bad fisherman compete" is a good approach. Im all about adding competition to tournaments... no one wants to be ran over week after week. But I want someone to win because they did more homework, fished the right patterns, or presented something more effectively. Not because they were lazy, went to BPS the night before, bought a rig and chucked it the next morning. Have you watched any of the YouTube videos? People are literally throwing the bait anytime and everywhere and catching fish on their first outings. If there is a bass nearby it catches one more times than not. KY lake comes to mind, where I have seen countless videos of guys just pulling up and throwing the rig EVERYWHERE and slaying them. Shallow, deep, suspended, it dosn't matter. All depths all times of the year it appears to be killing them in all regions and lakes. Is this rig good enough to completely make everything else irrelevant? Of course not, but I think it has entered the percantages to where it is raising a giant red flag. I guess well just have to let it play out and see where it lands us this time next year, after its been out awhile. But it dosn't look good for competition or the sport.

@JigFisherman You are completely correct. Lakes that this works extra well on will require you to throw it to stay competitive. Thats just one more reason to ban it. Seriously, who wants to be forced to throw a lure that is so overly productive just to stay competitive. Your only deceision in those tournaments would be what color and weight to throw... awesome. Im not entirely conviced this technique will 'learn' the fish. What are bass going to do? Stop hitting schools of shad? Its instinctive and I think it will remain very effective for a long period of time... they arn't going to get HD eyes and tell whether its five real threadfin in a ball or 5 fake ones... too much movement and confusion. Maybe, but what are we going to get to? Where bass can't eat crayfish or shad because our presentations are so lifelike? @RoadWarrior I could say the exact same thing. I've personally tried the rig, it works, but I still don't like it. It seems the guys that really pull for this rig are the ones who have greatly increased their catch rate compared to without it. Really good fisherman won't need it, and 8 out of 10 serious anglers I've talked to completely agree that it has no place in formal competition. Its letting guys that usually only bring in 1 or 2 keepers a tourney fill their limits up in only a couple hours. And just as @JigFisherman said, its forcing these better anglers to throw the same thing just to keep up with the less skilled guys. Like I said in my earlier post, recreational would be fine, people don't keep bass for eating really anyway. We arn't going to over fish our lakes because of it. Its the competitive aspect where its evening the field, even for guys with ALOT less skill. As of now, here in Indiana most C.O.s consider it legal even though there is only a 2 hook per line law. They consider it 1 "lure", just as you would a Spook with 9 hooks (3 trebles). I've heard they are going to throw down an official ruling on it (since its not actually covered in law) sometime soon, which would help alot in tournaments being regulated by state laws. Won't help a thing in these lakes south of me though where you can basically fish with unlimited lines / hooks.

Its causing a circus among the copy cat band wagon fisherman, thats for sure. Its funny to watch all of the wanna-bes chucking and winding huge metal umbrellas. That being said, I think the bait has definate potential... too much so. If you hear people at the Amateur level 'drastically' increasing their catch, then its not good for the sport or the game. If any hillbilly can run out to the local resevoir and chuck this thing at schooling bass, and catch lots of large ones, something is wrong. Corked bats hit more home runs, that dosn't mean they should be used. Heck, why use wood bats, lets give them all light weight aluminum ones with a 3x bigger sweet spot. Whats next for bass fishing? Legalize long line trolling? Casting nets? Lets 6 pole spider rig drop shots on some deep western resevoir bass! Comon... The rig will flat catch fish in some scenarios, especially some of these larger resevoirs whom have large open water schools of bait. No, it wont be a cure all in ALL lakes, but thats not the point. I think BASS got it right when saying they were 'above that' at that level. Why keep it to that level? I think that should be a large consideration to every man who calls him self a fisherman and stuard of nature. I personally hope to see the thing outlawed, at least in all tournament use. Most likely it can be used in recreational fishing for some time to come, depending on the state, but thats a different matter. And please stop calling it the Alabama rig, that makes it even more bandwagonesk. Its an umbrella rig, and they've been around forever. Just not mass marketed to the huge bass fishing market.

You make a good point Way2Slow, that I failed to mention. You can always get more of a running start and achieve any extra "umphh" that you may need. Im not trying to argue that you should use absolutely no throttle when loading your boat, just not the thousands of RPMs you see most people using out of sheer laziness.

People should be fined for it, period. 99% of power loading is just plain laziness. The other 1% can attribute to other factors including ramp design. No way shape or form is it hardly ever "necessary". Yes it is "easier" but its not respectful to the lake you fish (unless your ramp is 300 yards long by 200 yards wide and pure concrete. There is always enough wash carried to errode the ramp, even if there is contrete directly behind you. You can always back it in far enough to crank it on by hand if necessary. But I've owned several different boats, fiberglass, aluminum, big and small motors alike and have never "had" to do it. You can put side bunks on your trailer that are large enough to contain your boat from floating away if your too worried about backing in too deep. It would be worth it if you fish one of these so called flawed ramps I suppose. I fish several strip pits with absolutely no gas motors allowed, with some of the steepest ramps youll ever see. I can load my boat, alone, with a MinnKota Terrova in a 15 mph wind. Saying you can't load a boat because of (whatever) is being lazy. They even make powered winches for handicap and older folks. Everyone just wants their partner to back the trailer down just far enough they can power load with their 250hp boat and drive away without getting out of the seat. The only places that are hard to load without power loading are areas where people have powerloaded so much that the huge hole behind the ramp keeps you from putting your trailer in far enough. But honestly, if you can launch your boat from the ramp then you should be able to load the boat on the same ramp without powerloading.... its not THAT hard.

This is correct. The wavelength of the sound in the air is essentially reflected off of the water, it does not absorb or transfer it at any high rate. Havn't you ever noticed how you can hear someone talking at a normal voice alot farther when your only seperated by water? Have somone talk when your underwater in a pool and they are above water.. you won't hear them, probably even if they scream. Now vibrations are another story. They are transfered directly through the hull of the boat then into the water. In that case the noise can be heard VERY far away. Sound travels easier through water. You can hear someone ticking (with for example, a diving stick) on the side of an olympic swimming pool all the way across it if your under water with them. I would say the same would be for the radio as well. I would fear the vibrations of the noise directly touching your hull would transfer into the water, unless you had something to dampen it like thick carpet or rubber underneath the stereo. Speakers mounted into the hull directly likely would emit enough sound to be noticable. I don't like to yell when I'm fishing, but normal talking dosn't effect anything. Any other noises / vibrations I try to eliminate completely.

Definately try moving your batteries around into different positions. If you have to you can always prop an edge of a battery tray up on a piece of wood or something sturdy. In my old boat I didn't have room for all of them, so I ended up drilling my battery charger to the side of the boat on the stern instead of letting it sit on the floor next to the batteries. You could also remove the battery charger and place it somewhere else. Depending on your brand (I had a dual pro) and your warranty situation... you can lengthen the charge cables. You could find a place for your charger either in a compartment or under your console and then run the wires backwards to it. Its more of a pain but it works. Some brands actually sell kits to lengthen your cables. I did this to accomadte two troll batteries underneath my center console when I only had room for my charger in the back. Some brands even sell cable extenders, but I just spliced mine on my own using quality products.

x2.... generally the entry fee is considerably higher than the big bass fee. For some of our smaller club tournaments (the 8 hour ones) its $60 entry fee plus $10 for big bass (per boat, so divided by two for two anglers). A 1:1 ratio for entry and bigbass is pretty far off of the normal... but still fun I suppose.

USA Bassin has tons of tournaments in Indiana. Check out their website and go to the divisions... they list out what lakes, dates, and times. Indiana isnt known nationally for bass fishing only because we don't have any lakes suitable for large level tournaments. There are TONS of challenging and very good fisheries all across the state though. Just nothing as big as the giant southern resevoirs.

No matter what, line color almost always matters. As I see it there is really no reason to NOT play it safe. When your talking about a carolina rig, yes you do have a leader in any length you choose. However, most of the bites you get are going to occur because you drug your lure TO the fish. So before your lure gets there, obviously, your leader is going to have been through there first. Will that effect the fish enough to make it not bite? Who knows... But in a whole days fishing even if it effects only 1 or 2 fish, thats 1 or 2 too many, especially in a tournament. No one really knows exactly what extent bass see what colors and what depths... but I'd almost guarentee its no worse than grayscale... and even colored lines show up differently in grayscale than their clear counterparts. I've never really got the point in using leaders in most scenarios anyway. Your setup is only as strong as its weakest link... so attaching 15lb flouro to 50lb braid dosnt give you 50lb strength.... you might as well be using all flouro. The only benefit I can possibly see is visbility to the fisherman (which most bass fisherman arnt usuing fluorescent colored line anyway). And in this scenario with the Carolina Rig, your waiting too long to set the hook if your waiting to see your line swimming... that fish has already felt your egg weight by then. In summary... fun fishing, no I wouldn't really worry about it that much unless its uber-clear water... but if thers any bragging rights or tournament on the line I wouldnt risk it... at all.

Ya thats not too big of a price difference. Plus a coffee can or few feet of chain arnt going to hold you in any high wind or significant current (maybe if your only talking a 12ft boat). If you throw a few feet of chain over the side in any river here in Indiana your only going to stop if you snag a giant tree. I've seen several homemade ones work that are very good for all situations. If you take a tractor weight, put an eyelet on it, then 4 spikes (ie re-rod etc) pointing back toward you it will hold in about anything. Granted, you or someone you know needs to have the ability to weld... but it will hold better than anything you buy OTC. @FadetoBlack's idea with the PVC sounds like it may not be too bad of a style. I'd prefer the X shape to have a little of an angle on it but thats not a bad idea really. Standard anchors bought from the store, the Tri-Fluted River anchor seems to be the best all around one.

The gallon milk jug filled with water isn't going to hold a cover taunt if its submerged. The only way it would is if the cover pulled back (up) enough to want to lift the jug out of the water where its weight could be applied. In the water the jug would be near weightless (only weight of plastic, which is some cases may actually be less than water). Unless your using some type of water with huge levels of lead in it lol. With the shifting of the vessel in waves etc, it would be near impossible to have all the cord lengths around the boat appropriately sized to have all the same tension on the submerged jugs while the vessel rocks back and forth. Youd have slack and jerking all the time. Way too much effort. For one thing, I see no reason they even need to touch the water. Use a clip or tiny piece of rope to keep them up high. You'd need several, as well as poles to keep the water from pooling in the tarp/cover. If that didnt work, the "mooring" covers that use snap clips always work fairly well. They come installed on alot of speed boats from the factory. I don't like the look of millions of snaps screwed to the boat... and most are kind of a pain to put on, but they do their job well. On another note... if your vessel sits too low to use milk jugs... there are plenty of other "weights" to help hold it down that would actually sink regardless of water. Just be creative... maybe fill ice cream buckets with quick crete or something

I find it more useful in water that is moderately stained to clear. The slow tantilizing action works well if the fish can see it easily... they'll actually come from fairly far away which gives you time to be patient. However, in the stained to muddy waters I most often fish, I find that "waiting" for the fish to find the sinking senko usually dosn't pay off. I'd rather take my bait to them. You just don't show it to enough fish to make it worth the time invested in slowly watching your line as it sinks like a feather into the murkiness. jmo.

thats great and all but i would personally like to know that my boat is safe and not a death trap. but thats a personal choice and i guess not everyone agrees. What does a 79 sea raider have to do with being a death trap? There are boats build in the 70s that are techincally safer than most modern bass boats... higher freeboard and handle big water much better. If your solely picking on saftey no body would pick a low profile bass boat any way. No ones telling him to buy a junky death trap boat. All advice is assuming its nothing but very seaworthy. Granted, I would no way recommend driving anywhere close to 80 with it, at those speeds any boat is a death trap.

Im not really sure why it matters and the thread got off topic... there are people with 9.9's that will outfish the majority of people who are running 250's, they just can't afford them. I can't stand the mainstream school of though that you have to be fast to be good. A majority of want-to-be bass fisherman just get to their holes faster to not catch any fish. They are more worried about runnning fast and keeping their rides pretty then catching fish. Running anything over 60 isnt really safe on a majority of waters anyway. Im not saying getting places faster isnt necessary... I've owned larger motors myself... but talking about speed like its something UBER-important is ridiculous. If it matters that much then your professional and shouldnt be wasting alot of time on bassresource boards arguing over how fast a certain boat can go by +- 15 mph. If that 150 is moded, a 17 ft boat could hit 80 definately. You've not been around anything other than a big fat heavy bass boat if you think otherwise. But with speed and weight you sacrifice ride and many times stability. Anyways, back to the topic, for $1500, I find it hard to believe its a bad deal if everything checks out OK... I dont know anything about the brand, but if its in good condition itll sure do everything you need.

If you are serious enough about fishing to think you need side scan on your trolling motor then you'd best have units that share waypoints. It dosn't do you any good to discover hidden secrets with ss on your trolling motor and not be able to see the coordinates at the console. (what Im saying is interlink is basically required for humminbird if your already in that deep tech wise) That being said, I opted for two HDS's linked together with 1 LSS module. On a normal sized boat, the difference in what your reading directly under your boat in any decent depth water really isnt that different from bow to stern. Certain cones overlap at those depths anyway so your technically looking at the same thing regardless. I have found in my experience that using ANY sidescan transducer on the trolling motor is awkward, time consuming, and most of all distracting. To get a crisp picture you need your motor to run EXACTLY strait, otherwise images blur significantly. DI is nice to have up there but not that nice. I acutally use a MinnKota with a US2 for normal HDS sonar up front, then I have the capabilty to switch to my stern mounted side image / down image LSS-1 if necessary. All waypoints made are saved to both front and console units, making it very easy to find your spots. Both units will do very good. I've seen great images from both companies. The Lowrance is a little easier to use, with alot less tweaking, but the humminbirds that get it right seem to do equally as good. Either way your talking big money to have the capability.

I've owned two G3 Gator Tough welded jons... both with the Bear Trail Guard Trailers. They work perfectly. Never have had any trouble with bunks or welds. The trail guard works great too. Take it off to fit it in your garage more easily or take it with you if you need to leave your boat / trailer parked anywhere.