Talio

Yeah, it doesn't take much depth to cancel out the floating line. Only way to beat that is to weight down your streamer with a ton of lead. That's why I like the OPST Commando Head on my 5wt. It's a shooting head, which if you don't know, is basically just a short section of fly line that's super heavy. Normally, at the end that's running to your reel, you just loop on straight mono running line. That way when that heavy piece of line overloads your rod, it casts like a cannon because the line it's pulling behind it essentially has no weight at all. Then to the business end you have a system of sink tips with different rates of sink, plus they now make a floating tip. What's great about this kind of system is that the section of really heavy line that is your shooting head allows you to throw much more wind resistant streamers and poppers than a normal fly line would let you get away with. I've yet to find a streamer I can't throw on a 5wt with that system. Otherwise, you're gonna be looking at throwing mostly panfish sized poppers and 3-4" streamers max for that rod. Your 8wt should throw whatever. Most 8wt's now are made specifically to chuck giant flies at different species of bass. That's a solid rod for what you're trying to do. The problem your gonna have, if you're looking to fish deep water, is that most fly line only sinks so much. Even if you go full sink line, most options are gonna fall 6 or 7 IPS (inch per second, they measure it that way, but it's usually not accurate because of drag or water resistance from the fly) and even if you are able to find some heavier stuff, the faster it sinks, the worse it casts in most cases. Cabela's makes nice stuff. I am truly sadden they stopped making their in house brand of fluoro lines. That was the best fishing line I ever used. They have a bass bug fly line that's pretty good. It's got a really aggressive forward taper to be able to punch out more wind resistant flies. I used that line almost exclusively until I bought the Command head system last year. For myself, I'm not usually looking for a deep presentation from a fly. Even if deep water, I'm going to throw a popper or strip a streamer really fast right under the surface of the water to get a reaction strike. If you want to get deep, it's just so much easier on conventional gear. I think it pays, literally, to consider why you're going for bass on the fly rod. I do it mostly because I'm addicted to casting them. Casting a fly rod is one of those rare things in my life where I was a complete natural. I just picked the thing up and started doing crazy casts right away. I was teaching classes on fly fishing the next year and was guiding a rich couple in my area the next. So it's just in my blood for whatever reason. I also, just so happen to really hate treble hooks. They're barbaric, stick to everything (mostly me) and they STILL don't hold fish better than a single hook. So if I want to fish a popper, I prefer fly gear because I can get away with one stout hook with a top water presentation. Also, bass eat dragon and damsel flies like crazy. It's little talked about in tournament fishing, but some of my biggest top water catches have been on blue or red poppers depending on what color dragon flies I'm seeing fly around. The reason I'm bringing this up is because all this crap is expensive. You can chase the dragon and end up with 10 different rods just like you can on conventional gear, only it's gonna cost you way more to get the same kind of quality and the presentation will still be a bit of a compromise. I know for me, I tried it for years building these ridiculous metal monstrosity flies trying desperately to get a decent bottom presentation. I dunno what the exact moment was, but I remember one day getting back to the truck and just saying...I'm buying a baitcaster and a dozen jigs. I was trying to make square pegs fit in round holes. If you're trying to get to the middle and lower level of water column, you're better off with conventional gear. You just are. Nothing is gonna substitute a half ounce of lead on the end of thin fishing line in terms of depth. And we haven't talked snags yet. One of my hardest, most brutal catches was when I dropped a popper into a hole in some super thick hydrilla mats and a massive 3.5lber smashed it. I swear it took me a half hour to get him out of there and by the time I did, I had stretched my fly line so bad it had to be replaced. Imagine just setting the rod down, and pulling the line hand over hand like you're raising a sail or something. It was a mess. Fly rods just don't do the junk well. So I guess my point is, you're gonna make compromises in bass fishing with a fly rod. They work awesome on trout streams because you can throw little tiny hooks in shallow water that trout like. But even with that, most of us are euronymphing at this point which is basically turning a fly rod into a bait caster that can throw micro-jigs. Most of traditional fly fishing these days is based in aesthetics. It's just a visually satisfying thing to catch a trout on a dry fly in a stream. Bass on poppers is basically the same thing. Hopefully that wasn't too much pointless pontification and gave you a few things to think about. PS edit: forgot one thing. Learn to tie your own flies. You don't need expensive stuff. I invested maybe a 100 bucks when I started. Most streamers you buy aren't weighed heavily enough to get a really deep presentation. The rare instance I do want to put a fly deep, I use big, heavy saltwater hooks that sink like a stone and use the biggest dumbbell eyes I can find to tie Clousers. They cast like crap, but with Belgian/lob cast, they work fine. Plus you can pitch on a fly rod with heavy flies easily. You could throw this and some poppers on your 8wt with regular old 8wt weight forward floating fly line. I don't think there's a huge difference between the weight forward fly lines out there beyond how the head is built. Some folks like a ton of weight up front, which is what most bass bug line is like, but I personally like double taper whenever I can get away with it. I like to keep all of my fly line off the water whenever I can, so double taper kills some of the sag you get that pulls the fly out of the strike zone you want to be in.

So are most of you storing these in rod lockers on your boats? I have enough problem getting a single one piece to and from my house without breaking it, let alone a gaggle of them. I'm assuming that the majority of active users here are fishing from proper bass boats, yeah? I know a lot of the higher end kayaks have onboard storage, which is super cool, but I've always wondered about jon boats. You see way more jons on my water than bass boats, and I've always wondered how they get all those rods to and from storage without busting a few. I fish with three rods onboard usually. MH caster with 17lbs floro. Medium spin with 6lbs test. Then like a heavy action for flipping or frogging the gross stuff with braid or a lot of the times I'll bring my fly rod along cause who doesn't like catching fish on those poppers?

Caught a dog once. Was fly fishing an urban creek and some lady let her dog loose in the water. I was euronymphing with a sighter and I think the dog saw that thinking it was a stick. He grabbed the sighter and the line pulled straight up hooking him in the lip with my nymph. Now the dog is freaking out. He's a dog in the water. I'm a man in the water. No way I'm gonna catch him, so thankfully I had the common sense to zip a **** load of line off my reel. He runs up to his owner, some lady who threw a ball in the water then sat down on the bank talking to her friend not paying attention to her dog, and the lady yanks the hook straight at her. You know...The way hooks are designed to hold on? I got to them finally and started petting the dog. When things settled a little, I just reached over and pulled the hook out. Craziest thing was that it was barbless. If I could keep fish on that thing as well as I hooked that dog, the US would have a gold medal already...

You know, I was thinking the same thing when I first bought the thing judging by pictures online and it didn't quite work on that way. I have 3 D rings, the one forward of the handle wasn't included with mine, two of which are holding the box to my board. I could conceivably tie a tether to one of those but the straps take up alot of the room and generally don't really work very well. The last one is way on the back of the boat that I can't reach from the seat. I'll figure it out at some point. Chances are I may just use my fly fishing net attached to me.

Aquamarina Drift. It would be easy, but it's also permanent. I'm not gonna weld anything to my boat until I have a little more experience and know what I want. Which means I'm probably just buying a new one next season, but for now...Weeeee.

That's dope. I don't have a lot of tie downs in my boat so tethers are a problem I have yet to figure out. I could probably hang a float there from that triangular ring (here we go with geometry terms again!), but I would worry about the float stopping me from plunging the net into the water at that point. Either way, Frabill doesn't seem to make junk, so it's definitely an option I'll look into as things get colder. The colder the weather, the more interested I am in a net.

Oh wow! The bearclaw looks awesome. Does it float? That would be a little difficult to secure to my boat in a way that I can also get to it while fighting a fish. I've lost more fish fumbling around for my net than anything else.

What I worry about with rod length is the fish taking off under my boat and my line getting caught on the bow. Having a long rod (6'6" seems to be enough for me, but I would think it depends on how long your arms are) I can make sure the line goes around the bow. Grabbing the line seems to be a matter of opinion I've found. I saw some pro (can't remember who, older southern gentleman) give a talk where he says he always grabs the line every time, but many other pro's will only boat flip or refuse to do either. I've been doing it this way even from the bank for years on 6lbs test and it hasn't been a problem. I'm also generally not using treble hooks lures, cause well...I don't like them. I'm almost always using a big, stout hook. I may regret this some day, but for now, as a beginner to boating, it seems to work. Net is coming, but the only net I have now is a little short handled job for fly fishing. It's on my list of things to try. I'm just trying to illustrate that trying to grab him out of the water with your hands is a good way to take a drink depending on how stable the boat is. If you can stand in it without it being tippy, you'll probably be okay. Hard for me to say because I have that big open deck. I have a lot of options. OP has less. So I'm not a geometry expert so I had to look this up, but playing fish with the rod tip to the side of your body rather than with the tip overhead is what I'm getting at. It's pretty standard I know, but for me, that was a big lesson I had to relearn from the boat. Not sure perpendicular is the word, but that would be a really stupid argument to get into right now. I'll leave this for reference - https://www.khanacademy.org/math/basic-geo/basic-geo-lines/parallel-perp/a/parallel-perpendicular-review

What weight rod are you using? If you're 7wt and higher, pretty much any old weight forward line is going to work. If you're like me and don't want to buy another rod specifically for bass, I would recommend the OPST Commando head system. I can throw big, articulated meat streamers and giant poppers on my 5wt with that setup. I use the Smooth line with a 5' floating tip and a straight 20# Maxima leader. Works like a charm. However, when fishing fast water features in a river for smallmouth, I like to Euronymph them with a super small hair jig. I use Cortland competition fly line and a leader made up of straight 2x Rio two toned sighter material to a 3x Rio Flouroflex leader, length depending on the depth of water. My preferred hair jig is a 1/50th oz PJ Finesse Marabou jig in black, white, tan or chartreuse. You will pick up panfish with lure because it's a tiny hook, but it's also one of the nastiest hooks I've ever seen. Do not stick yourself with that thing. The barb is serious business. It's a little weird getting used to doing a strip set while Euronymphing. I do not use a tippet ring for this though, because if a knot is going to fail, it always seems like it's gonna be at that tippet ring. I use blood knots for everything because they're easy to tie and super, super strong. If you wanna get away with a single reel, you can buy or make a "Eurocheater", which is what I normally do. You just take 10-20 ft of competition fly line with your leader attached and loop it to the line on your reel. Lemme know if you have questions. I've tried just about every line there is out there, so I can probably give you some pro's and con's on whatever you're using. Check out this video starting at 11:00 for a really obscure craw method for the fly rod. Not what I do, but your post made me think of it:

So I just started "kayak" fishing after a few years of bank fishing. My boat isn't technically a kayak, but kinda like a weird cross between a sit on top and stand up paddle board. That being said, I can teach you what I learned this season: -You need a rod long enough that from your seated position the tip goes over the bow without fouling in case the bass runs under the boat and I've found he often will. More important than rod length, is reel speed. My fastest spin setup is 5:3:1 and it's too slow for fishing from a boat under most wind conditions. Generally, if I'm drifting towards my lure, I can't take up line fast enough. If you're trying to hop a jig, you'll never feel the weight on the bottom to get a positive snap. -At first, use finesse gear, something you can break off easy. If you get snagged and can't break your line easily, you can get into trouble, especially in current. You can open the reel to keep the rod from being jacked out of your hand if the current is moving swiftly, but then you're gonna have a mess of line to take up which normally twists all to hell after you get the lure out or break it off. I don't use an anchor, but often wish I had one. I prefer a drift anchor/wind sock, because my boat gets blown around really easily and I don't have a trolling motor. Chuck the sock of the starboard side and the boat drifts in the wind just a bit offset so I can cast with my right hand to the port side. I use the I-boating app with my phone hanging in a waterproof case around my neck to see how I'm positioned over bottom contour because I haven't invested in electronics yet. I find it super enjoyable though to watch my boat on my phone drift over drop offs as I cast to it. Very relaxing, easy going fishing and has been productive for me thus far. Be aware that some boats don't like to anchor in current. For inflatables and rotomolds, this probably isn't a big deal because you have air trapped that just doesn't want to go under because physics, but if all the stars line up right, it could pull down the gunwales down and swamp your boat. The one time I used an anchor I just used an old 5lbs dumbbell on a rope. It worked. -For hook sets, the phrase that popped in my head while teaching myself is "Always know where your hook set will be." What happens when working the bait, you end up with your rod way behind your head. You want your rod tip to be in some position to give you room for the set. So if you're hopping a jig with the rod in a high position, you're gonna have to reel down for the hook set. Often, in between casts, I'll do a mock hook set just to get it in my muscle memory. But remembering to always be asking yourself that question, "Where is my hook set?" That will keep you mentally focused on being prepared for a bite. I found visualization of this to be key. I just imagine myself setting the hook on a big fish while I'm day dreaming and generally I find an instinctive hook set works on the water after. This will change depending on your presentation. When I'm jerking something back, my rod tip is much lower to the water, so the hookset is different. Just practice with each of them in your mind whenever you're day dreaming and you should be pretty well prepared to make the real world adjustments needed when you get on the water. As far as falling off the boat during a hook set? Probably not a problem if you've got that in mind, but it's gonna depend on your boat. -Play fish with your rod parallel to the water. I lost a couple of big ones early on to this. I was used to trout hook set from fly fishing or playing bass from an elevated position on the bank. If you do this, and play the fish with the tip overhead, the big ones will get off on a jump. You can't always get a sideways hook set from a kayak, but after your set, you can get your rod parallel to the water as quickly as possible which seems to keep fish on. -Land fish by grabbing the line. Trying to grab them while they're still in the water is a great way to go overboard. Just get the fish close to the boat, grab the line and lift him in. Then don't let go. I've had to dive on more than one fish flopping on my deck, which is okay, cause I've got a big wide open deck. Most fishing specific kayaks, including your's probably have pretty busy decks. -Always be prepared to fall off the boat. I've never done it, but I always have a game plan. Is everything batten down, where are my rods, do they have floats, are all the lids on my bait trays and stuff positively closed? (It pays to know what that final slap or click feels like on your storage and making a habit out of doing those small things.) Do I have a change of clothes if it's cold? How easily can I swim to shore? Is the wind stronger than my free style stroke where I might lose the boat? Is the water cold? In the summer time, I fish in a swim suit and dive off into deep water to cool myself, so I'm not worried about wearing my vest, but I am also an open water swimmer. I know I can swim 20-30 miles while navigating without gassing out. It's important to note that you can't swim nearly as fast in a vest because it creates a lot of drag. If you're going into dangerously cold water where hypothermia is a problem, you can't always rely on getting back to your boat where you store your dry bag with your extra clothes in it. If you've gotta swim it to shore, you're gonna want to be wearing a wet suit or dry suit, but those won't totally save you. In a hypothermic situation, generally you still need to worry about frost bite on your fingers and toes. I've had frost bite numerous times, all in the Spring months and it's not fun. Once you get it, that area wants to get it again. Have a plan for going overboard and realize that plan can change from minute to minute as you move around the water. If you're 2 miles away from the launch with a heavily wooded shoreline, you're not getting back to your truck. I would say any cold water paddling is risky, but then again, we can't live our lives afraid of something going wrong. I've thought of getting a really small dry bad and attaching it to me somehow with my clothes in it, but haven't totally figured this out. Gotta act fast, the temperature is dumping in the Northeast in a big hurry this year. -Rod floats....It's just a matter of time before you dump a combo into the drink. Whoever designed my board had the bright idea to put the rod holders in the exact spot your paddle will hit if you farm a stroke so I lost one almost right away. I use rod floats now, but they keep the rod from fitting in the Scotty rod holders on my boat, so I just lay them on the deck and am careful. Most fishing kayaks have really busy decks, so this may not work for you. But then again, most of them have rod holders that actually make sense. -Get used to fishing the opposite of bank fishing. This took a really good amount of time this summer to get used to. On the bank, you're stationary and the water moves. In a boat, it's the other way around. If you're talking about current things get even more weird. So for me, I like to throw chatterbaits a lot, which from the bank I could burn in a straight line right back to me. When from the boat, which is generally moving, the lure will come back in a bit of a curve to you. So your visualization of the lure is different, plus your casting point. So lets say you're floating down a river and you want to cross a piece of submerged cover. You would cast before your boat got to the structure and start reeling in so you're pulling the lure over the structure rather than around it. Took me 2 or 3 trips to figure that out. -Keep your head up while rigging. Can't tell you the weird places my boat has drifted into while my head is down. Situational awareness is hard when you've got 10 different elements you're keeping track of. And otherwise, good luck! It's a tough transition, but it's super rewarding compared to bank fishing. As much as I agree with the point to get used to the kayak before you start casting from it, if you're at least an intermediate angler, which most of us will be at best, I think it pays to start right away. First off, you're gonna be burning up paddling around the water without a rod and second, I've found that 90% of this is muscle memory. Every time I launch things are a little easier than the last time. Kayaking on calm water is a stupid, stupid easy skill. People with no experience at all rent and paddle all day on lakes without a single issue. Being a bank fisherman has probably prepared you for more than you think.

That's awesome! Thank you so much.

So I created something like this as a prototype for fly fishing. What I did was get a paint strainer, cut a ring out of a soda bottle and duct taped 20lbs test line to it along with a 3oz sinker. It worked for bugs. Can't speak to crawfish, but maybe this will inspire an idea. Paint strainers are basically just seine nets only they cost like a buck.

Man, once you get into 4lbs and 1/32oz you're really talking about ultralight at that point. But I find the same thing quite a bit. I use 2x fluoroflex tippet with 10lbs powerpro as backing on my spinning reels cause you get 12lbs break strength on 6lbs test diameter. It seems to make a difference on some presentations. I also really like hair jigs this time of year in current because you're gonna gets lots of nymphs, hellgramites and leeches that the fish like to ambush in the faster moving water. I'll actually fish this on a fly rod often, Euronymph style. 2x flouroflex leader to 10' of 3x Rio bicolor indicator material to my Cortland competition line that doesn't even really come off the reel much on a 9' 5wt. The fight can get a little interesting on that light weight rod since it's my trout rod, but I'm not buying a new rod for something I do maybe 3% of the time. When I do this, I prefer PJ Finesse jigs in black.

I like all white for a fast presentation where I'm trying to draw a instinctive strike. I like green pumpkin for a deeper, slower presentation. Although, I would pick up some Caffeine Shads as well and compare them. Caffeine shads sink without any weight on them, which I found I greatly preferred over the floating Zoom bait. I can make a Caffeine shad act like a Zoom bait, but not as effectively the other way around. The understanding that I got which lead me to this is that when the fish are keying in on shad balls, the smaller ones strike the shad and the bigger ones wait below for the injured bait to fall down to it. The other thing about the Caffeine Shad is that it's action is crazy good when you do a straight reel retrieve. It just barely wiggles and to me looks more realistic when the bite gets tough. I don't have confidence in a big, wild action when the bite slows down. Just a tip, but white and green are my preferences because I think they look like most of the forage you're going to see. If I used this for a power presentation I might try the pink color as well. What Bass_Fishing_Social shows up there is great. Looks a lot like the baby bass color I use for my green presentation on the Caffeine Shad. Might have to pick some of those up.

Hmm, interesting. I'm surprised not to see the spawning boxes located in the water right across from the preacher camp launch. Still interested in what was in the valley that was flooded whenever the dam was built, but this is some great info. Thanks.

For me, it's just a confidence thing and the way I fish. I prefer to have as few rods as I can get away with and I jump around to a lot of different water, whenever I can get out, which is normally weekends. I live in a highly populated area so the pressure is immense. I don't know who was on the water the day before throwing what and I'm never sure what the visibility is going to be like when I show up. I just don't have time, money or space to have a rig for every condition. So I choose fluoro for both my spin and caster. I get plenty of feel and the whole idea of line visibility just gets thrown out of the window. Also, fluoro sinks and I just personally like to fish a bottom presentation. I know a lot of folks like to let their baits fall slowly, but I want mine right on the bottom so I can feel for things. I don't have electronics on my skiff yet, so this is more or less how I'm feeling around in deep water for structure. Plus, my finesse rigs are very light (think 1/16th oz Texas Rig more or less) and I've had situations where it struggles to sink the braid. It's just not the presentation I want. I would also bet that the folks who like throwing fluoro probably do a lot of trout fishing where line visibility is a key component to success. I personally just can't shake that concept. I get to fish so infrequently that I need to know my line isn't a factor. With fluoro, I know that my line is going to be a minimal factor. It does twist though. I've started spooling Rio 2x fluoroflex onto my spin rods because you get 12lbs breaking strength with 6lbs diameter. Fly fishing tippet is made to higher quality standards, so I've been able to horse fish out of some pretty thick cover limited really only by me reel speed and it doesn't twist. Haven't found a solution yet to the baitcaster, but I get way less twist on that setup for whatever reason just using regular Pline. When I used 8lbs Pline on my spinning reel though, it's Twist City.

Anyone know the size of the hook on a Trashmaster or already own one and can measure the length from the weight to the hook bend? I wanna try one of these screw lock jigs, but I've always fished jigs with chunks and that's not going to work with this presentation. Alternatively, I'd like to use Zoom Ultra Vibe Speed Craw, because I like how minimal it is. Subtle presentations bring confidence for me. Thanks!

Hey PA anglers, I was wondering if any of the old timers remember when the dam was built for Beltzville lake? What's under there? Was it mostly farmland or is there a lot of road beds and sunken foundations located around? Still working on getting electronics setup on my skiff, so I don't really have a lot of insight into what's going on under there structure wise other than knowing the bottom is almost entirely covered with vegetation? Thanks ahead of time!