WRB-2.0

This is one of my favorite topics; the value of big bass verses average size bass. Tournament fisherman make thier living catching 3 pound average young adult bass, where 5 bass limits equal 15 lbs will get a check at 90% of the events. To win a tournament event the angler may need to have at least 1 kicker or big bass 5 lbs or more. That isn't my main point however, it's the value of truely big or giant bass that I'm talking about. Events like Falcon Elite 50 this last weekend and the Amistad event comming up, that focuses the value of big bass on the bass fishing world. Every bass fisherman or fisherwomen dreams of catching the bass of a lifetime, their personal best or PB 5 bass weight, if you tournament fish. The true giant; a NLMB over 10 lbs or a FLMB over 15 lbs are special bass and should be protected by those who bass fish. Killing these special big bass is common, but usually not intentional. The big bass are fragile and don't survive in livewells very well for several reasons. 1. Excessive handling to show off the catch, which is only natural. Taking photographs, weighing, etc. The handling over stresses the bigger bass. On average the survival rate for big bass in less than 33% for C & R. Livewells aren't designed for big bass, low DO levels and high water tempaeratures ( over 70 ), combined with excessive handleing are primary factors leading to high mortality rates. 2. Live bait fishing during the pre spawn to post spawn period. It is easier to catch big bass on live bait, so more are caught by live bait fisherman. It's not the gut hooking, althought that can be an issue, it's the simple fact that more big bass find their way into home freezers or mishandled. Tournament fisherman don't fish with live bait during an event, but some do during fun fishing. If big bass excite fisherman to go out and purchase tackle, boats and get them involved in bass fishing with the promise or dream of catching one, then big bass have a value beyond prize money, they are the sole of our sport and we should treat them as the valuable treasure they are. WRB

Thats a good Florida bass in Florida today, In CA the FLMB girth tends to be around 85% to 95% of the length and that is why they weigh so much more. Roberts Fish Mounts does a great job with replica's for the west coast bass; E-Mail trophyfish@tmail.com WRB

The formula I use is; L x L X G /1200 = weight in pounds. 27 X 27 X 20.5 = 14,944.5 /1200 = 12.45 lbs. L = length with the mouth close to tip of lower jaw to center of flattened tail. G = girth measures aroung the widest area with the dorsal fin flattened. This has proven accurate within 5%, you may prefer the Tackle Warehouse calculation better! I just entered my 18.8 and 19.3 measurements using the *** calculate and they are both new world records! If that was true. WRB

The link has changed;http://www.huddlestondeluxe.com/ WRB

Did you take the time to read your answered questions? WRB WRB I did not see the answers to the questions just the comments below. My mistake and meant no disrespect. Thats what I thought, becuase my answers aren't highlighted or easy to find, like the replies from folks that know how to use computers. I don't believe you must focus all your energy on catching giant bass, you miss out on the fun of bass fishing doing that. Some asked if I knew Bill Murphy and yes I did and didn't, we were in the same club together. Big bass fisherman can be very secretive and loners, Bill and I were both way to competitve to be good friends at that age. I was from Ventura county about 180 miles north of SD and therefor an outsider. I really regret those foolish secretive years wasted on ego and is one reason I share detailed lure presentation and knowledge today. WRB

Yes, we were both in the Picses bass club back in those days. SD lakes got hammered when the word got out. Castaic and Casitas both got hammered in the late 80's and 90's when the word got out on those lakes. Stripers have shut down the main lake Castiac giant bass bite and Casitas is closed to outside boats, but still has a giant bass bite. I only caught one 15+ at Casitas last year and had a few located when the lake closed, should go rent a tin boat and fish it. WRB

It helps to be located where DD bass live. 1955 I managed to catch 2 DD LMB; 12 lb on a crawdad from a private rock quarry lake and 11 lbs on a waterdog from Lake Havasu while on Easter vacation. The 11 should still be the lake record. !969, 14 years latter was the next DD bass; 14 lb 5 oz., from Lower Otay, my first giant FLMB, and a lake record for 2 days. By 1971 my total was over a 100, 10+ bass from the San Diego area lakes; Lower Otay, Wolford and San Vincente. It was at the time I decided to stop fishing with live bait because, IMO, live bait fishing was the primary cause of the giant bass population culasping in those lakes. WRB PS; the SD area lakes were only open 3 days a week, that is approx 300 days of fishing or a 10+ every 3 days. To say the bass fishing back then on those lakes was wide open is an under statement.

Did you take the time to read your answered questions? WRB

I haven't chipped in on frontal conditions up to this point. Barometric pressure affects on bass are misunderstood, IMO. The most severe storms, for example only change the atmosphic presseure about 100 millibars. Humans feel astmosphic changes more than bass do and tend to apply the pressure changes to how they feel. Consider a 100 millibar pressure change affect on the water surface; it equals about 3 inch of water added weight to the bass. Yes they feel the change, but I don't believe the pressure change has a major impact. What does have an major impact is the change in light intensity due the increased, then decreased moisture in the atmosphere. Low pressure forms a depression the moist air moves into and that triggers activity as the eccosystem becomes more active. The low pressure is pushed out by a frontal high pressure, winds increase, the moisture is push out and the atmosphere becomes extremely clear, increasing the light intesity. The astospheric changes from claim moist conditions to clear windy conditions has a dramatic affect on the shallow water eccosystem. Everyone has frontal conditions from time to time. The lowland lakes and reserviors that are shallow are affected more than the deeper highland and hill land type reserviors becuase the light intensity changes and wind affects are more dramatic. Where I live and fish it is easier to move to deepr water where the climatic changes have less impact, so that is what I do; fish deepr water. In a shallow water enviroment, like Florida for example, you must try to locate active bass and they aren't too active after feeding during the low pressure system. The bright sky conditions usually cause the bass to seek sancturary under cover in shallow water, so that is the best place to start; near or in the cover with presentations that target inactive bass. WRB

If you are questioning largemouth bass, then the age is dependant of the water temperature they live; the warmer the year round average climate is, the shorter the life spawn. Oldest bass that I have ever heard of was a smallmouth in Miane; 23 years old. Califronia northern strain largemouth bass, the oldest that I had aged by biologist Larry Bothoff was a San Vincente male bass that weighed nearly 7 lbs and was 17 years old. The 18 lb 11 oz bass, photo somewhere on this site, was 15 years old, also validated by scale study. My PB 19.3 I didn't get a pore scale from and believe it was over 12 years old because the fish was in excellent condition. All the giants in the bass family are females and spawning is the greatest danger to their health, followed by desease and then being caught and mishandled. WRB WRB

You must fish for big bass to catch big bass,.sounds contrite but it's the truth. Learn to fish jigs, big worms and swimbaits on the major points around the lake you fish and your luck will change. WRB

4. Bass is a bass. The statement is valid, you can't compare a FLMB to a NLMB they are as different as a spotted bass and smallmouth bass. Someday we will have separate records for each; FLMB are a different specie. Having had the opportunity to bass fish in nearly every state and country that has bass populations for over a 40 year period, IMO bass are bass where ever you go, that is to say northern LMB behave the same in Arkansas as they do in Arizona. I have caught LMB in lakes north of Lake Of The Woods in Ontario Canada, that the locals didn't know they were in that lake. Once fishing for smallmouth, came across a secondary cove with a weed bed that looked like largemouth water and they were there, spawning in July. That is the furthest north that I have caught a NLMB. continued... in regards to perfered water temperature, that is dependant on the environment or lake classification where the specific "bass" (FLMB, NLMB, SM or Spotted) is located. Within their natural range you may be able to state a prefered summer or warm water range. The winter range is simply the warmest the bass can find with good DO levels and and prey. The pre-spawn, spawn cycle are definately tied to water temperature. If LMB spawn too early in cool water, less than 60 degrees, the eggs take to long to hatch; about 12 days, for the male bass to protect from eggg eaters, too warm; above 70 degrees, the bass must compete with bluegill (bream) for spawning sites and protect the eggs that only take 2 days to hacth. Both too cool and too warm of water relates to low spawn recruitment. The warm water or summer periods is open to available prey, confort zone/water temperature/sanctuary, prey sources are abundant. The fall transition again tied to cooling water temperatures and climate. To state the FLMB prefer 75 to 85 degrees doesn't take into account for FLMB transplanted into the northern LMB southern range; California and Texas for prime examples. California reserviors that have a good FLMB population rarely have surface water temperatures that exceed 80 degrees and the bass go deeper during the warm water period to seek the thermocline where the water is closer to 70 degrees. I don't know what Amistad, Falcon, Fork and the other Texas lakes core water temperature are, or where the FLMB prefer to locate during the warm water period. The pre-spawn and spawn are very similar to CA. WRB

Lake Castiac, May 1991 around 9:30A. I was tutoring a local pro tournament bass fishing freind in his boat how to fish jigs so he could catch a kicker once in awhile. I had a box of jigs and decided to take along a spare rod rigged with a customized Scrouinger jig as a backup. We had jig fished fo 3 hours and were running up the lake to another location when I noticed 3 or 4 blue herons standing on a point trying to catch fish and a lot big splashes near them. We stopped and I made a cast toward the splashes and got into a non stop bite until I broke off the only Scrounger I had. I offered Gary to take the rod, but he refused and was happy to help net bass, release them and keep count. The point has a saddle where the bass had pushed up a school of trout and trapped them. The surface water temperature was about 72 degrees and a month past post spawn. The point is surrounded by 150+ deep water. Light wind with high overcast, mild May weather conditions. The original Scroungers had small 3/0 hook and I modified it with a long shank 6/0 worm hook tied to the cut off original hook. I was using a prototype rainbow trout sluggo on a 1/2 oz Scrounger head. This lure was a secret at the time. WRB

I agree with Cook's statement. Except where I fish the shoreline is generally pounded by weekend fisherman and knowledgeable bass fisherman out west tend to fish more outside structure where the bstter size bass locate in deeper water just above the thermocline during the warm water periods. The bass tend to move up towards the shore at night when the boat traffic is off the water. Deep water offers the bass a sancturary, baitfish like threadfin shad and planted trout. Crawdads during the day tend to hide in deep rocky cover and move up at night and threadfin shad tend to move to wood cover at night, so the foloow thier food source. Lakes without fishing pressure could be different, just don't get the opportunity to fish private lakes often enough to know the patterns. You may be reading into something that isn't there; if the water temperature is confortable for the bass, then it isn't a factor. The bass have located where they want to be and not forced to locate elsewhere due to water temperature issues. If the water temperature wasn't confortable, the bass won't be there. Hope that helps to clarify the statement. I don't mind discussing the temperature issues, having a debate, everyone has a right to there opinions and hopefully the information can be helpful to readers. I have no time for and will not respond to personal attacks. WRB

Your point is? How long do you think it takes to catch hook and land big bass? You obviously have never caught big bass or several big bass during a feeding freenzy or you wouldn't ask the question. The longest time I have ever played a bass is about 2 minutes, usually about 1 minute. The people I wanted to know about the catch knew, plus my partner let a few more know. When you are trying to catch world record size bass the last thing you want is more boat traffic. Instead of questioning if I caught those bass, which is well known fact in the big bass circles, you should of ask where, when and on what lure. WRB

Not a common achievement; Matt Nueman had a very similar day at lake Casitas in 2005, catching a similar number of big bass off one point within a short time period and I believe Matt did have bass fishing magazines publish his catch as he is a pro and needs the publicity. Lets agree that bass travel in large groups at times, you call them what you want, they a schools of bass to me. WRB

From the time the bass are fry, they school. Adult bass tend to group by size is true. Have you ever witnessed how smallmouth bass hunt in schools? or largemouth in wolf packs of 50 or more big bass from 7lb to 12 lbs.? I ounce watched a school of LMB cross lake Havasu, a distance of about 2 miles, that was about the size of a football field or several thousand bass. I also caught 18 bass that all weighed over 10 lbs., within 1 hour on a major lake point that were feeding on trout, I would say those bass were a school. largemouth bass are predators, so technically they don't school to confuse other larger predators from preying on them, once they are big enough to feed on other prey. That could be what you are interpreted as bass don't school for defensive purposes but they do school to feed on other prey fish. I was refering to Doug Hannon's statement on bass behavior, not always being in concert with my experience, as noted. Bass apparently don't school in Florida's smaller lakes, other than staging for pre-spawn. They school where I fish however. WRB

Pual, bass are not suicidal, fisherman catch them and store the bass in surface temperature water pumped into the livewells. It's not uncommon for bass in the summer to locate near the thermocline in water in the 70's, in deeper large reserviors, that is the temperature they prefer and the surface water can be over 85 degrees. The thermal shock of water exceeding 10 degree differential will lead to high mortality rates, if the bass can't return to the cooler water temepratures. To acclimate to warmer or colder water that exceed more than 10 degrees, takes the bass several hours with the water temperature changing a few degrees in steps. reference; Gene Giililand, biologist OK DWC http:www.stse.tn.us'twra/fish/Reservior/blaclbass/livebass2.pdf Not trying to hijack the thread, just trying to keep things somewhat accurate. Doug Hannon bases his experiences on FLMB in Florida and his view points rarely agree with bass behavior outside of Florida. For example it was stated that bass don't school to feed on prey fish. That goes agianst the experiences most bass fishermen. Bass that target threadfin shad schools on large reserviors are school fish. Big bass, out west, school to target trout in open water, it's a common tactic. The eccosystem in a small natural lakes are different than a large reservior and that is why you need to classify the type of water the bass live in. WRB

As long as the temperature is within the basses confort zone, the DO levels are good, the PH is OK and food supply is there, the optimum temperature isn't a primary factor. If the bass are there, then the conditions are right for them. DO comes from 3 natural sources; aquatic green weeds producing oxygen during the day light hours (via photosynthesis), incoming aeriated water from a stream or river and wind generated wave action. DO is consumed by the same weed growth at night, decaying organic animal or vegetation and underwater DO breathing animals like fish. Man made oxygen pumps are sometimes added to lakes to help increase DO levels below the thermocline. Both fertilizers and pesticides deplete DO levels. If the small lake is located near residential or commerical areas, then the man made affects should be considered. Spring water is normally a constant 60 degrees, unless heated and has very low DO levels. Springs are usually surriunded by weed growth that adds DO and that is where the bass like to hold in both summer warm water and winter cold water periods, because the water tepmerature is confortable and aquatic life is good around a spring. WRB

Bass are in sunfish family and water temperature controls nearly every aspect of their lives. The largemouth bass in Florida are a different specie than the bass located outside of Florida, unless transplanted. The reason FLMB didn't spread naturally beyond Florida is water temperatures north of that region drops below 45 degrees and the FLMB can't tolerate the colder water. There is a lot of opinions stated about bass and water temperature. Try to keep in mind that the bass we a trying to catch have a prefered water temperature zone of 70 degrees*, if availble. During the winter 70 degree water isn't available many places where bass live, so they move to where ever the warmest water is that contains good levels (7 to 9 mg/L) of dissolved oxygen (DO) and food, because they must breath and eat. DO limits are somewhere between 3 to 12 mg/L for most fish. During the summer largemouth bass will try to stay near the cooler 70 degree water temperature if possible and they still need to breath and eat, so they may move to warmer water if neccessary. The lower temperature that largemouth bass can survive in is about 40 degrees, the upper limit is about 85 degrees. The reason that bass can't survive colder water is the fact that at 39.4 degrees the water changes dramatically, the density gets lighter, the DO levels are too high for bass to servive, so the bass go deeper to stay in warmer water or locate springs that keep the water warmer. At 85 degrees the water doesn't hold enough DO, so the bass go deeper to find cooler water. It doesn't matter where the largemouth bass are living, the water is the temperature affects them the same in California or Ohio. The problem is today's bass fisherman look at their surface temperature guage to determine the lakes core water temperature. I don't know if anyone has ever swam in a lake, if you have you would know that the water gets cooler the deeper you go down. The bass don't live in the first foot of surface water, they live down deeper several feet where the water temperaure is confortable, the DO levels are good and food is availble. You will see bass swimming near the surface as the water column is warming following the cold water period to seek the warmest water possible, they are sunfish and don't forget bass are a predator fish looking for food and hopefully our lures. WRB * ideal water temerature for bass survival when DO levels are between 7 to 9 mg/L.

Unless you have a underwater camera with a temperature probe, you more than likely only have a surface temperature probe on your boat. Water isn't very thermally conductive, therefor doesn't change qwickly to solar heating or low air temperatures. The surface water down to about 1 foot insulates the water below it. For example the upper layer core water temperature in a lake that is 30 feet deep with a thermocline at 15 feet is 70 degrees. The lake is subjected to a 80 degree warming trend during the day and 60 degree nights for a few days with claim breezy conditions. You check the water surface temperatures at dawn when you luanch at 72 degrees and again later in the afternoon at 76 degrees. You are metering and catching bass at 12 to 15 feet and they really start to bite and you checked the water at 76 degrees. What is your conclusion? the bass are more active at 76 degree surface water? The water down at 12 feet is still 70 degrees and will not change day or night under those conditions. Now a cold front comes in and cloudy conditions with light rain occurs over a few days. The same lake, you lauch at dawn and the water temperature is 70, the thermocline is 15 feet and you are catching surface bass working baitfish and the bite stops in an hour, but you continue to cast surface lures without success. By the afternoon you give up and go back to the deeper bass at 12 feet and start to catch them again. You look at the surface temperature and it's 72 degrees, ahhh warmer water, you figured it our again. Or perhaps the bass were active in the morning, shut off becoming nuetral and you starting target more active deeper bass in the afternoon. The cold front paases through, its windy and colder when you launch, the surface temperature is 68 degrees, you go to where they were biting surface lures the last time and you also know the bass should be tight to cover because of the frontal conditions and you blank. later in the afternoon after flipping and pitching the cover without success, you notice the water is only 66 degrees, so you move down the lake and meter the thermocline at 18 feet and also meter some fish at 16 to 18 feet on a point. There is less wind in the wind protected side of the point and the water is back up to 68 degrees. You worm fish down to 18 feet and start catching a few, the warmer water agian. Or maybe the bass never moved in the deeper water and have been eating worms all week for the fisherman who knew they where holding there. The big difference with any lake is the lakes classification. Power generating highland reservoirs are different than shallow low land water storage reservoirs; becuase the current is created differently; wind in the lowland and water being drawn in the highland and/or wind. No wind and the lowland doesn't have any current, but the highland can have current on a claim day when generating power. Bass being cold blooded animals are affected by water temperatures and the temperature controls a big part of their life. Every bass fsiherman should understand that. But you can't change the physics to fit your own beliefs, it is what it is. I stopped using a depth temperature probe years ago when the first good paper graphs came out and I could meter the thermocline. I still occasionally check the basses core body temperature with a portable digital temperature probe used to monitor my livewell water when filled. If you accept the fact that the surface water is different than the water a few feet deeper, then your sonar becomes your eyes for bass or baitfish you can't see. Lakes are not like the ocean or rivers where currents are constanly changing and temperature breaks are measured vertically. Lake temperature breaks are usually horizontal layers, unless wind or water movement creates vertical temperature breaks. I fully agree that high winds can create lake turnover, but it's a rare condition. WRB

On the sat overhead there is water back there when the lake is down, so that same water would be deeper with the lake up, so it's not all shallow water north of the road, check the sat overhead at the greatest magnification, thats how I found the isolated tress in the main lake. Musky will be the prime predator, the bass will be tight to cover and when weed beds develope the bass will locate on the inside edges, the muskies own the outside weedline breaks. There looks like a 3 to 4 foot break about 200 yards long south of the west pot hole and a row of tree stumps south of the break that look very good, check that out. WRB Added note; Anyone reading this should take a look at this small lake and go on Google maps; Wagon Train recreational area, Nebreska and study this lake using the sat overview. Good practice and a small body of water to learn where the deep outside structure elements are located. You can apply the same elements to any bass lake.

I recommended earlier to look at the lake via sat maps when it was low pool and that is still my advice to you. This little lake is about 1 1/2 miles long and 1/4 mile wide and the fisrt order of business is to print you map and make draw 1 1/2" square grid pattern that equals about 1/4 mile squares, starting at the north end at Martell road dike. Nearly everything worth while is located within the 1 st 1/4 mile at the north end, one both sides of Martell road, until late summer. Question; can you fish the area north of Martell road? becuase that is the best looking area. The 3 islands or pot hole ponds are interesting, however are also obvious to anyone fishing this lake. What is not so obvious are the submerged trees located about 500 to 600 feet south of those pot holes, near where the map has the 10' depression and 8' creek channel. The other interesting structure is the road bed that leads to the water inlet on the north west bank corner of the Martell road dike and the channel cut at the north east corner and all the area north where the river enters. This little lake has a lot of structure elements and a low bass population density because of the draw down and shallow water and cold winters. Don't think in terms of "honey holes", think "spots" to make up a milk run. About 1/2 mile south of Martell road you will see a creek channel, look for isolated rock piles and tree stumps near the intersection marked 12' and 10 ' channnel towards the west bank, could be a good summer location. The south end break water rip rap and marina area would be good during fall winter when the pressure is off this area. Study your map and sat photo's, mark up your map and try those spots. WRB

isnt yours 18 or 19 something pounds!?!? great fish man! 19.3 lb, 1994, Mar 5, 11:A, 29L, 28G, hair jig, lake Castiac 18.8 lb, 1981, Feb 9th, 9:30A, 28.5L, 28G, hair jig, lake Casitas. WRB isnt that the biggest Castaic bass? did you get it verified bc youd be on the top 25 biggest bass list Castiac record is 22.01lbs, Bob Crupi or Mike Arujo's 21.75 lb bass depending on who's listing. Yes, the bass was offically weighed and never listed, due to unacceptable photo? My 18 lb 11 oz bass was at the time in 1981, the 5th largest. I don't believe 19.3 makes the list anymore. WRB

Looking at this small lake on Google maps, the lake is 2/3rds dry. The man made structures and original creek channels are your best choices when the lake refills. Suggest you study the sat overhead photos closely. The fact that this body of water freezes and is very shallow at the time the sat photo was taken, I doubt that this lake has a good population of bass. WRB