I just spent a few days on the water with my new Loomis Spinnerbait rod that I made recently with the simple spiral wrap scheme.  Here are my comments on spiral wrap casting rods based on that experience:

It casts beautifully, and I don't see that the spiral wrap cost me any accuracy or distance.  Before tieing the guides down I tried it a lot with different wrap schemes, including conventional.  The line (braid) goes through the guides smoothly and quietly, just like conventional.

I don't sense any advantage in reducing torquing in the hand while fighting fish. I used it and a conventional rod on King Salmon up to about 20 pounds, which are very tough fish, and couldn't sense the torquing on either rod.  Maybe I'm insensitive to that, but I expect it really isn't a significant issue on this kind of rod.  Maybe on boat rods with even bigger fish. . .

In all respects it is as enjoyable to use as conventional except. . .  I really don't care to be staring at that 90 degree bumper guide all the time.  I don't mind the first guide on top or the other guides on the bottom, but that bumper guide just seems to bug me.

I think I'll go back to making conventional wraps.

With regard to using the split butt grip design, I'm converted on that one.  I like the looks and really like the feel while casting.  With one handed casting, the short front piece works as well as conventional.  With two handed casting, I really like the feel of the smooth blank on my rear hand and the small butt piece of cork gives a better feel than the conventional smooth cylinder of cork.  I used the exotic burl cork and finished it with cork preservative, and that makes the color a rich darker tan/brown.  And it feels great in the hand.  I'm going with exotic burl and split grip on all my builds from now on.

Mick

What is the action of the Rod?

What is the action of the Rod?

It is a 6' 9" casting rod blank that has a fast tip with a very powerful butt.  The flex is mostly in the tip.  It is a powerful rod , handled the big fish very well.  No complaints with the rod action on fighting fish or casting, it's just that without a compelling advantage for the spiral wind, I'd rather not be staring at that bumper guide all the time.

Mick

That's what I thought. The differance is hardly ever felt in a heavy/stiff rod. It's hard to torque a heavy rod. When you get into a thin med or light action rod you will notice a big difference. Take a Med crankbait rod with the standard setup. Put the line throught the guides and then tie it to something heavy. Then lift the rod and get a good bend in it. Put as much stress on it as you dare. Then look at the tip top and you will notice that it and the blank have been torqued to the bottom position. That is where it naturally wants to go. So if you were to adjust the guides to where they are spiral wrapped on the same rod you will feel the difference when it is under stress. It is a better fighting rod when there is no torque.

This subject has been covered in detail in this thread

http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1189818987

I really don't care to be staring at that 90 degree bumper guide all the time.  I don't mind the first guide on top or the other guides on the bottom, but that bumper guide just seems to bug me.

You keep making mention of the bumper guide on the simple spiral being a distraction. You have me curious as to what size guides you put on this rod? Plus you could have used the O-Quinn style of spiral that would have used multiple guides in the transition of the line to the bottom.

REGARDING:  Then lift the rod and get a good bend in it. Put as much stress on it as you dare. Then look at the tip top and you will notice that it and the blank have been torqued to the bottom position.

Will do, also will consult the article you mentioned.  The rod I was directly comparing it to, and with which I landed some very solid King Salmon, was the light action Loomis CBN841 (think I have the number right, the medium power, medium light action, crankbait blank wound conventionally).  Maybe I'm just not noticing it in the heat of the "battle."

thanks for your comments, Mick

REGARDING:  You keep making mention of the bumper guide on the simple spiral being a distraction. You have me curious as to what size guides you put on this rod? Plus you could have used the O-Quinn style of spiral that would have used multiple guides in the transition of the line to the bottom.

The guides were sized per the Tom Kirkman article in Rodbuilder magazine, and are the Amtac titanium framed casting guides.  The bumper is, I believe, a size 10 or 12, whatever Tom recommended.  I think that smaller guides would have worked as well, but it being my first spiral wound rod, I followed directions.  Although, the sizing of the guides as they are keeps a really nice routing with the rod both under stress and in the unstressed casting mode.  The line nicely transitions from the top to the bottom without touching the blank or taking any sharp turns.  I considered the Quinn style, had the guides on the rod that way with tape, casted with it, and then tried the simple spiral.  I found no difference in casting with any setup I had-line goes through the guides silently and with no apparent losses, either way.

I confess, I'm a retired engineer, and seem to like order in my stuff.  I think the bumper just looks out of order, as I think having more guides not at 12 o'clock or 6 o'clock would also (O Quinn).  Maybe in time I will just forget it.  

The rod is a beautiful rod that fishes very well.  I like my windings on a glossy rod to "disappear," and using Gudbrod Olive thread without color preservative, with simple metallic gold accents only at the tip and the butt, it is in my opinion a beautiful rod, my best build to date.

thanks for your comments.

Mick

I confess, I'm a... engineer

That explains alot. I am the son of a retired engineer and a brother of two engineers. I know where you're coming from now.

I checked out the recommended thread and note the arguments:

Spiral wrap is more noticeable on heavy action rods.

Spiral wrap is more noticeable on light action rods.

Spiral wrap works OK but has no real advantages relative to torquing.

I tried the recommended thing about holding the line to heavily load the rods and noticeing how the rod turns over on conventional but not on spiral wrap:  None of my rods, from medium heavy to light action, turn over when heavily loaded.  If the loading is off to one side rather than right down the rod at 12-6 o'clock, then the rods do torque in that direction, but not close to all the way.  If I load the rods on center, then move the line out to the sides, most rods do "snap" over when the line gets far enough to the left or right, but they never turn over to where the guides are on the bottom.  The spiral wrap rod is pure and smooth with this exercise, never showing any discontinuity in the loading like the "snapping" over that conventional rods show.

Having done all this, and having some really good experience recently with some very powerful fish, I have to conclude that the torquing that spiral winding is supposed to eliminate is not really significant on fresh water casting rods.  I expect that I would come to a different conclusion with salt water boat rods and hoisting up Groupers from the bottom.

Interesting discussions!

The biggest advantage to a spiral is not what you feel, it's what the rod experiences. Some people can feel a difference and some don't notice it at all.  

The look is subjective, but I like it, maybe because it's different.  That's part of the greatness of rod building... we can all make exactly what we like.  

The bumper is, I believe, a size 10 or 12, whatever Tom recommended.

I think that was a big boat rod in that setup, a 10 or 12 size bumper is a big guide.

Here is a look at a 5'6" bumper wrapped to the left, pistol grip rod, the butt guide is a #10 size, the bumper a #7 single foot, and the running guides are #6 single foot guides out to the tip top.

Tight Wraps!!!

REGARDING:  I think that was a big boat rod in that setup, a 10 or 12 size bumper is a big guide.

Here is a look at a 5'6" bumper wrapped to the left, pistol grip rod, the butt guide is a #10 size, the bumper a #7 single foot, and the running guides are #6 single foot guides out to the tip top.

Wish I had known that (boat rod) before I did the rod!  Looks like I'm about a guide size oversize on all but the last few near the tip.  Sure works well, though.

I looked at your rods at your website, nice stuff all.  I also learned that there is a good keeper for drop shots, have ordered a few.

thanks for your comments.

Mick