Hey everyone, I'm looking at getting a kayak. I have done a fat amount of research and watched a lot of YouTube videos. I know demoing them will be the best. As far as durability and reliability as far as parts and the mechanics that make them run. I.E. the rudder, cables, switching from forward to reverse, dropping/lifting the rudder. Do these parts wear out and become useless over time?  

Mirage Drive is a pedal drive so not sure what you are meaning unless you mean mirage drive versus all other pedal drives out there.  

 

All parts that move wear out over time.  The jury is still out on all the recent additions to the pedal drive market so really the only long term durability tests you have are the hobie and the native.  Both, from what i have read and seen are pretty durable and parts don't wear out super quickly.  

I am sure some others will chime in with their experiences as well

24 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

Mirage Drive is a pedal drive so not sure what you are meaning unless you mean mirage drive versus all other pedal drives out there.  

 

All parts that move wear out over time.  The jury is still out on all the recent additions to the pedal drive market so really the only long term durability tests you have are the hobie and the native.  Both, from what i have read and seen are pretty durable and parts don't wear out super quickly.  

I am sure some others will chime in with their experiences as well

Yes, you are correct, mirage drive vs propeller Drive. 

They all seem pretty reliable. I personally am a Hobie guy. They have been around for a long time, the boats, drives, accessories, etc are all top notch. Fit and finish in all of there products are second to none. Customer service is great. I fish lots of grass and wood, so the Hobie is my choice. It goes through the grass ok, and if can avoid damaging the drive by simply holding a pedal all the way fwd and flattening the fins against the bottom of the hull. I don't have to life the drive up to avoid hitting wood, rocks, etc. 

On 5/4/2018 at 3:54 PM, jasondaily said:

Hey everyone, I'm looking at getting a kayak. I have done a fat amount of research and watched a lot of YouTube videos. I know demoing them will be the best. As far as durability and reliability as far as parts and the mechanics that make them run. I.E. the rudder, cables, switching from forward to reverse, dropping/lifting the rudder. Do these parts wear out and become useless over time?  

First thing to consider is whether you want a pedal vs paddle drive. This is a tradeoff in price vs. convenience. Paddle will be infinitely more reliable than pedal, but pedal opens up opportunities than paddle cannot match: maneuvering the boat without having to put down the rod; much more control over the boat when the wind tries to change your direction.

 

Every part or feature you add will add convenience but also wear and maintenance.

 

If you want pedal, your choices are propeller (say Native) vs fins (say Hobie). I've used both, but not long enough to know about long term reliability.

 

Main choices between prop vs fins: Props have fewer moving parts, fewer wear items, more gears and fewer cables which means fewer adjustments; props have instant reverse by changing the direction of your pedaling. Fins are less likely to get wrapped in weeds; are lighter; put legs/feet at a lower more comfortable angle; can clear shallows by pegging the fins to the hull (instead of pulling up the drive system).

 

I started out favoring simpler prop drive but ended up buying fin drive. 

 

If you can't decide between features vs complexity, consider buying two yaks: a prop/pedal yak with some features, plus a dirt cheap "last resort" paddle yak that simply gets you on the water (mine was $185 at Walmart). 

I've been wondering about this topic too.  I want a yak to fish some local rivers.  They get shallow at times and I wouldn't be able to use the propeller drive.  I'm wondering what the draft is like on some of those.  I think I would prefer the propeller, but not sure if it will still work in shallow water with the drive out.

14 minutes ago, Obi_Wan said:

I've been wondering about this topic too.  I want a yak to fish some local rivers.  They get shallow at times and I wouldn't be able to use the propeller drive.  I'm wondering what the draft is like on some of those.  I think I would prefer the propeller, but not sure if it will still work in shallow water with the drive out.

A pedal drive boat would be my last choice for kayaking a river unless it was deep and no risk of hitting the bottom.  Also depending on the pedal drive chosen, I am thinking hobie PA's here, the boat itself drafts pretty deep even without factoring in the drive fins.

 

Another thing to think about is noise. Some of the pedal/ prop drives are noisy. I’ve never heard a noisy mirage.

18 minutes ago, flyfisher said:

A pedal drive boat would be my last choice for kayaking a river unless it was deep and no risk of hitting the bottom.  Also depending on the pedal drive chosen, I am thinking hobie PA's here, the boat itself drafts pretty deep even without factoring in the drive fins.

 

That is what I was wondering.  I know one or two of the rivers will be deep enough for a propeller, but 2 others will only be deep enough part of the time.  I know I'll have to paddle only at times.  I have friends with yaks, but don't know anyone with a pedal drive of any type.  If they draft too deep, I'll have to get out quite often and push.

pedal drive needs to be greased but isnt a big deal.

i chose the pedal driven slayer 10 for a few reasons.

 

weight, the slayer 10 is 70lbs with out the drive and makes it a breeze to load and unload. the rudder is plastic and very durable. when you unload the slayer the rudder touches the ground first but the weight of the kayak moves it to where its out of the way. the hobie is substantially heavier. that was a big deal for me. 

 

i found mine used for under $2k, even if i bought it new i would of saved a nice bit of change over the pro angler.

 

the instant reverse is sweet. hobie now has the reverse that just came out this year but you have to pull a lever and ive heard can be annoying to keep pulling it over and over again.

 

good luck with either choice.

 

 

 

 

41 minutes ago, YoTone said:

pedal drive needs to be greased but isnt a big deal.

i chose the pedal driven slayer 10 for a few reasons.

 

weight, the slayer 10 is 70lbs with out the drive and makes it a breeze to load and unload. the rudder is plastic and very durable. when you unload the slayer the rudder touches the ground first but the weight of the kayak moves it to where its out of the way. the hobie is substantially heavier. that was a big deal for me. 

 

i found mine used for under $2k, even if i bought it new i would of saved a nice bit of change over the pro angler.

 

the instant reverse is sweet. hobie now has the reverse that just came out this year but you have to pull a lever and ive heard can be annoying to keep pulling it over and over again.

 

good luck with either choice.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the advice. There are so many pros and cons of each it's hard to decide. I don't plan on fishing in 6 inches of water so that's isn't a factory for me. As of now I'm fishing in Toledo bend which as a lot of stumps. Running into those has me concerned. Storage- I saw a YouTube guy say the hobie is better bc the drive slides under back seat. 

34 minutes ago, jasondaily said:

Thanks for the advice. There are so many pros and cons of each it's hard to decide. I don't plan on fishing in 6 inches of water so that's isn't a factory for me. As of now I'm fishing in Toledo bend which as a lot of stumps. Running into those has me concerned. Storage- I saw a YouTube guy say the hobie is better bc the drive slides under back seat. 

ive ran into stumps, and its no big deal because youre not going that fast, relatively speaking so i doubt its going to do real damage to the drive.  

 

Ive seen other pedal driven brands that give way in  case you hit something like that. but so far it hasent been much of an issue with me. 

 

If  the space of the drive is an issue then i can see it helping a bit but i have plenty of places to store my propel unit. if anything you can just leave it on the kayak. its not like it wont fit in your trunk or in the back seat.  i cant see that being that much of an issue.

52 minutes ago, YoTone said:

ive ran into stumps, and its no big deal because youre not going that fast, relatively speaking so i doubt its going to do real damage to the drive.  

 

Ive seen other pedal driven brands that give way in  case you hit something like that. but so far it hasent been much of an issue with me. 

 

If  the space of the drive is an issue then i can see it helping a bit but i have plenty of places to store my propel unit. if anything you can just leave it on the kayak. its not like it wont fit in your trunk or in the back seat.  i cant see that being that much of an issue.

Thanks, I'm kind of a penny pincher so I want to make sure I like everything about the kayak I choose before spending 2k-3k dollars 

Hello Jason,

     I've been tournament kayak fishing for going on five years now. I picked a Hobie PA14 last August and left my paddle behind. Both drives have pluses and minuses to them. I feel that the Hobie lets go into slightly shallower water by short stroking your fins high and close to the hull.  In super thick weeds neither one is good. In moderate weeds I'd give the nod to the Hobie.  Forwards/Reverse nod goes to the Native propel drive with the ability to change directions by changing the direction you pedal. Seating position goes to the Hobie. Leg angle is higher in the Native some might not consider that a advantage. 

 

 Both drives suck when it comes to hitting stumps at speed. After fishing the TOC on Lake Fork (stump city) last year and seeing the repair line for repairing Hobie drives.  One of the guys fishing TOC was a Hobie prostaffer and brought a bunch of Hobie spare parts. He had the experience knowledge to do the work and did the repairs on site. I also heard about crashed Native drives and broken props. I did not see those personally. If you hit a stump at 3-4mph cruising speed you will bend and break stuff. Carrying a spare set of fin rods or a spare prop for your flavor drive is pretty much a necessity. 

 

Overall the reason I went Hobie was because of weeds. I felt and still feel that the Hobie mirage drive lets you get through them better with less hassle.  You can usually break through (tear the weeds)  short stroking with the Hobie. I think with the propel drive you have to pull the drive up and clear it. I could go on a bunch more but I'll cut it off here.

 

I'd love to see the Native guys chime in and tell of their experiences.

 

Regards,

Fishingmickey

 

On 5/6/2018 at 10:41 AM, flyfisher said:

A pedal drive boat would be my last choice for kayaking a river unless it was deep and no risk of hitting the bottom.  Also depending on the pedal drive chosen, I am thinking hobie PA's here, the boat itself drafts pretty deep even without factoring in the drive fins.

 

Agreed, if you're most often in shallow rivers, paddle wins over pedal, at least in terms of draft alone (that is, not taking into account the convenience of not having to store the rod to pick up the paddle)

 

If you must have pedals, Hobie fins let you get extremely shallow without having to pull up the drive system. You can peg the fins against the hull, and pedal that way with very small movements. With propeller drive you have to pull up the drive and grab the paddle.

 

On my (only two so far) outings in the PA, I navigated very shallow water, I'd guess 1 to 1.5 feet deep, with Mirage fin drive. Now I wish I had taken a moment to measure the actual water depth, and also wonder how deep the PA draft is. I'll do that next time and will follow up on the forum.

 

As far as hitting unexpected river obstacles is concerned, if you're in real shallow, you're seeing the bottom (and obstacles) long before running into them unexpectedly.

 

That said, if you're spending time in the shallows, a short nimble paddle-drive yak wins.

 

Disclaimer: I'm a Hobie fin fan. Tried both systems, initially didn't like the fins, ended up with fins.

Thanks everyone for the great info. It has been greatly appreciated and very helpful. 

This is what i meant by draft.  This is a buddy's boat and you can see the water line on it, just seems deeper than most but it may just be the perception of the picture.  

 

 

One major thing to keep in mind that many people do not consider before going to pedals, is the ability to make position adjustments without moving the boat. In other words, I can't turn my Hobie on a dime to point the boat exactly where I want it. I have to gain speed in order to gain steerage from the rudder.

 

With a paddle kayak, I can simply hold the rod in one hand, and make a half-hearted paddle stroke with the other to tread the wind, or to turn my boat just slightly to help me effectively stay on my target.

 

For bass fishing, my exact position is more important to me than being able to be hands-free while underway. I don't typically have to paddle far on my lakes and I don't troll. However, saltwater fishing is a different ballgame for me.

On 5/9/2018 at 4:07 PM, IgotWood said:

One major thing to keep in mind that many people do not consider before going to pedals, is the ability to make position adjustments without moving the boat. In other words, I can't turn my Hobie on a dime to point the boat exactly where I want it. I have to gain speed in order to gain steerage from the rudder.

 

With a paddle kayak, I can simply hold the rod in one hand, and make a half-hearted paddle stroke with the other to tread the wind, or to turn my boat just slightly to help me effectively stay on my target.

 

For bass fishing, my exact position is more important to me than being able to be hands-free while underway. I don't typically have to paddle far on my lakes and I don't troll. However, saltwater fishing is a different ballgame for me.

I would like to chime in on this because I'm considering buying the new hobie compass or bonafide ss127.  I don't understand why you just can't use a paddle to turn the hobie also?  The way I see it, the mirage drive allows you to travel farther distances with the pedals and you can also control it with the paddle.  Am I crazy to believe that aside from the price, it's a no-brainer to go with the hobie?

6 hours ago, hmongkidBee said:

I would like to chime in on this because I'm considering buying the new hobie compass or bonafide ss127.  I don't understand why you just can't use a paddle to turn the hobie also?  The way I see it, the mirage drive allows you to travel farther distances with the pedals and you can also control it with the paddle.  Am I crazy to believe that aside from the price, it's a no-brainer to go with the hobie?

You’re right. You can use the paddle. But you’ve got to lift the rudder out of the water. Not a big deal. It’s just a pull cord in the cockpit that operates the rudder. You don’t HAVE TO lift the rudder, but from my experience, it really hinders the ability to turn the boat quickly and easily with the paddle. If you’ve already been fishing out of a paddle kayak, switching to a bed all kayak just takes some practice getting used to. 

14 hours ago, IgotWood said:

You’re right. You can use the paddle. But you’ve got to lift the rudder out of the water. Not a big deal. It’s just a pull cord in the cockpit that operates the rudder. You don’t HAVE TO lift the rudder, but from my experience, it really hinders the ability to turn the boat quickly and easily with the paddle. If you’ve already been fishing out of a paddle kayak, switching to a bed all kayak just takes some practice getting used to. 

I never paid too much attention to the hindrance that the rudder causes so that's definitely good to know.  Thanks for the info IgotWood.