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Rod Question For the Rod Gurus Here.  

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I was wondering if IM-10 graphite rods were as sensitive and durable as 85 Million Modulus rods.   Can someone please explain to me the differences of the two classifications ?  

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The difference is that you simply can 't make a comparison between the characteristics of two materials when there 's no industry standard governing the characteristics the material should have.

One manufacturer 's IM6 can be much better than another manufacturer 's IM gazillion.

Comparisons between the same manufacturer however are possible, usually the lower end graphite densities in graphite fibers are used in cheaper models and as you go up and the density climbs the rods is more sensitive and light and yes, more expensive. For ex a Clarus is heavier and less sensitive than a Compre, a Compre is heavier and less sensitive than a Crucial.

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This is a little story that I think should be just the right touch here. It is written by a friend and fellow rod builder that Flechero and I know Andy Lamar of Lamar MFG.

Good evenin' folks,

I may be about to open a SERIOUS can of worms with this thread, but what the heck.....here goes anyway. Being in the blank distribution business, I get asked A LOT about the construction and makeup of the various graphite rod blanks that I sell. And, I have to say that whenever somebody asks me about modulus I just cringe! Here is why; It seems that about 90% of the folks that email me want to know what the modulus is of the blank(s) they are considering buying. When I ask "Why do you want to know that" they can't really give me an answer....they're just convinced that higher the IM rating is better. Here is how the conversation usually evolves:

Mr. Customer: What modulus is that blank made from?

Andy: Well, if you must know, it's about 40million Msi

Mr. Customer: What does that mean?

Andy: Well, it means the blank is made from the material you have come to know and love as IM6

Mr. Customer: Oh, that's too antiquated...I only fish with IM7 and higher.

Andy: Really? Did you know that the difference between IM6 and IM7 is not the modulus it's the tensile strength?

Mr. Customer: Really?

Andy: Yeah REALLY!

Mr. Customer: Eh Hhhmmm....erreer, uh, oh....well uh....well Bass Pro Shops says...

Andy: Forget Bass Pro shops...let's look at the numbers (at this point Andy whips out his trusty data chart that illustrates the differences between the different fibers that actually have IM designations). Here take a look at this. This comes from a chart put together by the folks at Hexcel (http://www.advancedcomposites.com/technology.htm)

The number on the far right is the modulus of the fiber, and the number in the middle is the elongation to failure or stretch.

Hexcel IM4 600 40

Hexcel IM6 760 40

Hexcel IM7 780 40

Hexcel IM8 790 44

Hexcel IM9 920 42

Mr. Customer: You Mean all this time I thought I was getting a higher modulus fiber with the higher IM rating, when what I was really getting is a fiber that stretches more?

Andy: Well, in some cases you are, and in some cases you arent. The fact is though that the difference between IM6 and IM7 is nothing in terms of modulus, and compared to IM8 it's only slightly higher. Wow...look at that IM9 actually has a lower modulus than IM8...go figure Now, many companies are using fibers with a much higher modulus, like 57 and even higher, however these fibers don't necessarily use the IM ratings. So, whenever you see a fiber with an IM rating...BUYER BEWARE! THE HIGHER THE IM RATING, DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THE HIGHER THE MODULUS!!!

The point is this folks...just because you have a blank made from a high modulus fiber, doesn't means it's a good rod! And vice versa, just because you have a blank with a low modulus...even the original fiber blanks were made with (33 million) doesn't mean it's a bad or outdated rod. It's all about what the designer does with it.

I know there are some of you that may already know this, but judging from the amount of calls I get on a daily basis from folks who ONLY want IM7 or IM8, but can't really tell you why, I have to believe they don't really know what they are talking about at all. They've just been sucked into the marketing machine that leads people to believe that the higher the IM rating, the lighter and more sensetive the material, which is not always the case.

Be forewarned that there is A LOT more to graphite blank construction, performance, quality, sensetivity, weight etc... than just what modulus the fiber is. There are lots of other variables like flag patterns, and wall thickness, and resin systems, and mandrel design....It's all about the talent of the designer, and what he is able to do in terms of the sum of those variables...not just the friggin modulus!

Whewww...ok I feel better now...

My aforementioned explanation of modulus and IM ratings is by no means meant to be anything more than a brief primer for the folks who didn't realize what the differences with the IM ratings were. I hope this clears things up a bit, and I hope that some of you will chime in on this as well. Oh, here is a link to the Hexcel page for those of you who want to investigate the matter further. Do a search for IM6 and you'll get some interesting info. (if you're into that kind of techie junk).

[www.hexcel.com]

[www.advancedcomposites.com]

Now, this gives you some ammunition...next time you stroll into BassPro, and some yahoo tries to sell you a rod based on it's IM rating, ask him to explain to you why the higher IM ratings are better. When he replies by sayin' that the higher the IM rating means more sensetivity, less weight etc....just tell him that you have a blank at home made from IM2000, and see what he says.

Regards,

Andy Dear

Lamar Manf.

Good Luck & Tight Lines!!!  

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Excellent thread...i learned something. ;)

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That 's the quote I always try to look for when people ask about which being better and can never find it. ;)

Some parameters can 't be measured, they are as personal as you are, sensitivity is one of them; I swear to God I still can 't feel THAT much difference between the sensitivity of a GLX and an IMX, I can feel the difference in weight but in sensitivity ...... got me on that one.  :-/

The rod may have the highest vibration transmission the man can invent and all that goes to the toilet the moment you have it in your hand.

There are many that praise the sensitivity of Kistler rods, I own the Mag TS All Purpose and let me tell you ..... to me it feels like if I am wearing surgical gloves on my hands, doesn 't happen the same with my IMX.

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I never get tired of seeing that story come up.  It's a great reminder so as not to get caught up in the marketing game.

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There are many that praise the sensitivity of Kistler rods, I own the Mag TS All Purpose and let me tell you ..... to me it feels like if I am wearing surgical gloves on my hands, doesn 't happen the same with my IMX.

Easy Raul,  you are starting to peak my interest in G. Loomis again.  The monkey is asleep right now...let's leave it that way.   ;D

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So ... basically what you all are saying is that Bass Pro Shop's Johnny Morris Elite rods w/ 85 Million Modulus for $130 aren't necessarily better than All Star's IM-10 rods for $110.   Am I right?  

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So ... basically what you all are saying is that Bass Pro Shop's Johnny Morris Elite rods w/ 85 Million Modulus for $130 aren't necessarily better than All Star's IM-10 rods for $110. Am I right?

Yup, that 's what we mean.

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what is a very good rod thats not outrageous in price? other than an ugly stick

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what is a very good rod thats not outrageous in price? other than an ugly stick

well an ugly stick is far from a very good rod. if thats your price range, then you most likely wont find a very good rod. but the Shimano Clarus is a good one in that pricerange. Berkley rods aint bad either.

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Some parameters can 't be measured, they are as personal as you are, sensitivity is one of them; I swear to God I still can 't feel THAT much difference between the sensitivity of a GLX and an IMX, I can feel the difference in weight but in sensitivity ...... got me on that one.

A year ago I owned 1/2 a dozen GLX rods and today I only have one. I'm with Raul on this one. All gimmicks, latest craze and marketing hype aside, there is no better rod for the money than a Loomis IMX. Custom blank (I have 5 of them) or factory built rod, you cannot go wrong with the IMX. JMHO

Ronnie

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good to know, well im new to most of this so im just tryin to figure out whats good and whats not and who to believe when they tell me what is and isnt good lol.Im lookin for something good but no more than probly 100 bucks ide say something around 75$ would be nice, any suggestions guys?

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good to know, well im new to most of this so im just tryin to figure out whats good and whats not and who to believe when they tell me what is and isnt good lol.Im lookin for something good but no more than probly 100 bucks ide say something around 75$ would be nice, any suggestions guys?

You would probably get more attention if you start your own subject.  Add some details like what type of rod (spinning or casting) and what you'd like to use it for (all around, jig/worm, etc).  You can get some very decent rods in the $75-$100 range.

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good to know, well im new to most of this so im just tryin to figure out whats good and whats not and who to believe when they tell me what is and isnt good lol.Im lookin for something good but no more than probly 100 bucks ide say something around 75$ would be nice, any suggestions guys?

How about taking the advice from people that have owned almost everything in the market ?

Something good around 75, there are a lot of good rods in that price range just don 't ask miracles from them, rods that can do the job.

From what I have owned or own I personally like this ones:

- The BPS Bionic Blade is quite a good rod in that prace range and you can get it many times dirt cheap.

- The Shimano Clarus is also a good rod in that price range, I have 3 myself: 1 H trigger ( flipping/small swimbait rod ) and 2 spinning M ( D-shot rod ), MH ( spinnerbait rod ).

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In the $75- 100 range, I'd look hard at the Falcon line and some of the lower end Castaways.

Another great deal right now- if you have a Dicks' SG in your town-

They have the St Croix Avid rods on sale for $99!!!!! (a $160 rod).

I understand they are redesigning the Avid, and they're on close-out.

I just got one,and it's a sweet stick for sure.

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