Broken Fin Fishing Fools

[PaparockArk]

original source material: http://yjhm.yale.edu/announcements.htm

Just a little creative editing from the above. ;D

Just to prove I have not lost all my mind just some of it. :-?

[PaparockArk]

On a serious note. I came across this information that may be of help to any that know others going through "combat trama" from their experiences in all the conflicts now going on or terror attacks.

Here is a link to an article about Tel Aviv University Professor Zahava Solomon who has conducted research into the psychological consequences of war and terror with over 20 years experience. http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/israeldiary/Combat_Trauma.asp

Here is a link to her ground breaking book in the field of rehabilitaion of trama victims: http://www.amazon.com/Combat-Stress-Reaction-Enduring-Springer/dp/0306442795/ref=sr_1_1/103-9556761-3455035?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177287177&sr=8-1

The title of thw book is:

Combat Stress Reaction: The Enduring Toll of War (Springer Series on Stress and Coping)

The book is expensive but is the cutting edge of rehabilitation in this area of healing!

[RecMar8541]

P_rock

Great post!

There are alot of people who come home with "issues".  

Back during the Invasion of Panama in 89, Operation "Just Cause", was the very first time I was exposed to anything combat oriented.  Even though it was a very short ordeal, it made an impression.  Then the Gulf War, ugh, I had alot to deal with after that one.  Somalia....93....operation "restore hope"....That one set me over the edge.  Depression, anxiety, Anger, Fear, Denial...you name it.

I had a "specialist"  talk to me, it was a joke.  My therapy consisted of telling her about what I had seen, and done, but changing the ending to something plesant....How ridiculous is that??!!

Anyhow, then there was some uneventful work in columbia, then on to iraq this go around.  Was there 3 years.  Same issues, same problems.  Ive been home awhile now, and am fine all in all.  Adjusting was a bite....but I managed.  Erica was a Rock for me.

There needs to be something done for those who have to cope with all this.  It is the lonliest place on earth.  Noone understand you, noone "gets it".

I hope none of you think this post, and where I have been is any attempt to boast...Believe me it isnt, it is pertanant to the conversation, and in truth I dont care to discuss things past where I was, basically because alot of it I am NOT ready to relive nor deal with.  I get enough of that at night.  

There is nothing worse than a nightmare only to wake up and realize the things you dreampt were real events....

You guys are a great lot, thanks for reading my ramble

God Bless,

Recon

[fishbear]

Recon,

God Bless you for standing in harms way for us, and now dealing with the anguish of the aftermath.

My nephew was in Iraq for a year, and he was in counseling for about 2 months after he came back, and he still will not talk about alot of what went on over there.

No, we do not think you are boasting.  Just stating facts that have to be dealt with.

John

[PaparockArk]

Veterans need life long support and understanding from the people they serve, family, and friends. There are no quick fixes for the things so many are experiencing in today's world. For some reason the average person in America can somewhat grasp the trauma of a tragedy like VT. However, they are lost when it comes to the vast scale of the days, weeks, months, and now even years of daily such trauma young soldiers, many not much older than college age, experience in today's reality. People struggle to comprehend the lasting impact such events have not only on the individual soldier but his family and friends as well those having lasting relationships with him or her.

Here is a link to another good source material for family and friends to aid soldiers. There are no right words, no magic pills, being there and supporting them when they need you will mean more than most of the experts appointments because you are there 24/12/365 while the "experts" are not.

http://www.amazon.com/Posttraumatic-Stress-Disorder-Developmental-Perspective/dp/0889371873/ref=sr_1_1/103-9556761-3455035?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177519095&sr=1-1

Posttraumatic Stress Disorder: A Lifespan Developmental Perspective

Dresden Univ. of Technology, Germany. Brings together recent findings on the course of posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and its development through life. Discusses the methods of coping with PTSD at different stages of life.

[Guest avid]

Hey recon,

I'm glad you found this forum.

This is the place to share with people who care, but it's still kind of anonymous.  Feel free to say anything you need to.  So long as you stay in the general boundries that cover any post you can unload here to whatever extent you feel comfortable.

I'm looking forward to meeting you at your generous get together.

Your friend,

avid.

PS >  A good woman can make all the difference.  Your a lucky guy in that respect.

See ya soon.

[RecMar8541]

Avid,

I dont unload much.  I know in my heart I did my job, unpleasant as it may have been, thats what I signed on for, so thats what I did.

That job just came with a whole lot of reality, the worst being what man is capable of doing to man, and for what reasons.  

Then to come home and watch the news.  I couldnt believe they were even talking about the same place.  Nothing we accomplished was ever mentioned, just the bad things.  No mention of schools opening, and ALL children being able to attend, many for the first time.  

The forefront of daily news seemed to be the number of men killed that day, and the perspective of that was absurd.  Dont get me wrong, to this day I feel pangs everytime I hear of someone over there "getting it".  But in perspective, Iraq is almost exactly the size of California in square mileage.  An average of 3 soldiers have died each day in Iraq.  I bet California wishes it only had 3 murders a day.  Not quite the massive slaughter portrayed by the  media.  

The other thing that gets to me is the reason we went, or the percieved reason.  I am so sick and tired of hearing we did this for oil.....thats the stupidest thing I have ever heard.  If we truely had done this for oil, do you think we would be hovering near and over 3 bucks a gallon in most places?  Bought gas lately?  Bush would be considered the best president of all time if our gas prices dropped below a buck and a half.

"Bush lied there were no WMDS."  Ugh.  The point was to force the Iraqis to ALLOW weapons inspections.  We gave ole sodomy insane every opportunity to comply.  10+ years of the UN warning him.  Then when forced to step up to the plate, many in the UN backed down.  Given our recent past history of terror attacks, and knowing how much we were loved there, I believe what was done was the right thing to do.

My apologies, I didnt mean to turn this into a political rant.  I apologize if my views differ from anyone reading this.  Understanding why I did what I did is just as important to me as the events themselves.  There has to be reason for such horrible acts,  there has to be some good coming from it.  Something positive to hold onto.  

I have unloaded more than intended, and for that I apologize, but must say it felt good to get some off my chest.

2 weeks after coming home I recieved a letter telling me my best friend of almost 20 years had been killed.  We worked together for almost 20 years.  I traveled to his funeral, I had to.  Those few nights were the hardest ever in my life.  I actually stayed with his parents, at his Mothers insistence, and slept in his room.  He made one stupid mistake, and paid for it.  I often wonder if he would have made that mistake had I been with him.  I could list a million what ifs, what could I have dones, etc etc.  But that kind of thinking tears me up.

Avid,

A good woman makes all the difference.  For months after I came home she would come into the bathroom while I was taking a morning shower, and say "ya know I love you, your safe, noones gonna shoot at you today".  Then she would just walk out.  Some mornings there were as many tears as water drops in that shower.  Although she never let on, I suspect she knew that.  I am looking forward to meeting you at the get together and fishing, unless of course you want to come down earlier and fish.  My door is always open for you. If Im not at home look to the left and yell Ill be on the water LOL.

Your friend as well,

Recon

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

recon- you're home, you're safe, noone is going to shoot at you today.  (wives shouldn't be the only ones to tell you this)

[skillet]

 If I'm not mistaken (have been before) the term "stress disorder" was coined after Viet Nam. It has been around a lot longer than that. My favorite uncle came home after WW2 (South Pacific) a "different" person. The Dr.s said alcohol finally got him. It wasn't alcohol it was combat. If war is Hell, actual combat is somewhere below that.

 I was probably exposed to my present health problems in Viet Nam. The first thing that I thought of when told this was "37 years and the damned country is still after me".

 Not only what people are capable of and why, but what you are capable of and why. The loss of innocense(sp.) is devastating, I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.

 Ranted all that to say this: Recon, I don't know if it gets any better but the spaces between wondering about it get longer...

                                                             As Ever,

                                                              Skillet  

[Guest avid]

I have unloaded more than intended, and for that I apologize, but must say it felt good to get some off my chest

No apologies please.

You felt better.  

If even it was just a brief moment of relief, sometimes that's good enough.

[PaparockArk]

Recon, from an old tired veteran I salute you. Welcome home! If I can be of help to you in any way, do not hesitate to ask.

[Red]

wow, i just found this thread and it is really awesome that you guys support each other like this...makes me proud and glad i foud this site....i dont have any physical problems or anything (did shift my lower 8" of spine and pelvis and inch and a half to the left about a year ago..was out for a week..but no problems since...though the doc told me it probebly will become an issue as i get older)  anyway, i just wanted say how great of a thread this was..very cool...i hope everyone who does have problems has a speedy recovery and gets well soon!

Cliff

[fishbear]

Guys, I am having a real rough weekend.  Started last night driving home from work, had another panic attack.  Felt like i was passing out driving down the road.  Took me almost 20 min, to drive the last 4 miles home.  Then it happened again today, went to the in laws to borrow an ax.  Was on the way home and it hit me again.  We lost our insurance when the wife lost her job about 7 weeks ago... she is back to work but no insurance till 1st of August now......  Man I hate this sh&t......... gonna have to get to a doctor as soon as the insurance kicks back in... wife still looks at me like I am making it up.... sorry had to vent some.

[PaparockArk]

Panic attacks are no joke. They can be quite debilitating as well as annoying. People who have never experienced one often cannot understand them because there are no visual injuries that can be seen yet their effect on the individual is just as real. If you want to just talk about it feel free to contact any of us as talking about it can lessen the stressor that triggers panic attacks. That is why this group is here. You can do it by personal message or email for privacy. I hope you are doing better.

[Guest avid]

Panic attacks are terrifying.

Like all emotional disorders, people either understand or they don't.

Is there no way you can get to a doctor sooner?

PM being sent

Hang it there

avid

[skillet]

fishbear,

 You do know how many of us are thinking about and pulling for you...

                                                 As Ever,

                                                  Skillet

[fishbear]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.  Avid, thank you for the PM, and will start looking into it on Monday.  However, I may have found one of the triggers.  I have acid reflux, and it has been killing me since Friday as well, and I take Prilosec every day.  I am beginning to wonder if one does not have an effect on the other, will discuss this with the doc as soon as I can get into see one.

Again, thanks for all the thoughts and good words.  It means a lot.  I am looking into some behaviour/thinking modification type therapy as well... maybe that will help along with meds.. who knows, but the attacks need to stop

[RecMar8541]

Fishbear,

First off if there is anything I can do please do not hesitate to pm me, I would be glad to send you my phone number.

Secondly, Panic/Anxiety attacks are no joke at all, I know, I have experienced some whoppers first hand.

Not having any insurance is no laughing matter either.

Try to identify what you were thinking about just prior to your episodes, try to identify the trigger, if in your case that can be done.

There are several relaxation techniques you can use as well, as possibly a stop gap measure until you can see a doc, do a bit of research on it and I think you will find something that works.

My next suggestion may seem over the top for some, and if that is the case I do apologize.

If you know anyone who is being treated for a stress disorder, they maybe taking xanax.  Xanax is what the docs put me on for my ptsd, unless you have some allergies these could be bennificial to you.  While I am NOT condoning any type of recreational use, sometimes you just gotta do what ya gotta do, it may help you get by until your insurance kicks in.  

Try getting plenty of rest, fatigue is a huge ccontributo to anxiety and stress.

If you want to talk more privatly feel free to pm me, I am here for you buddy.

as I am sure we all are!!

Recon

[PaparockArk]

Hey, fishbear, we all have to find what works the best for us as individuals. What works wonders for one person may not have any effect on another. No medication ever helped me during the time I had them yet I know others that meds made all the difference. Doctors are always saying my case is weird anyway though because of all the different things going on in my body. A close friend helped me through mine but then that is a whole different story. Hang in there and know we are all thinking of you and many prayers are being said on your behalf.

Thight Lines Guy

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

My ex g/f suffered panic attacks (no, not because she had to sleep with me  ;D )  She was given klonopin (sp?)  

She was a drooling fool in no time.  Became a total airhead and is to this day, dependant on them to a point where she goes and buys them off the street.  BE CAREFUL.

Hoping you find an answer.

[PaparockArk]

Here is an alternative for rigging tubes with those with experiencing tendonitis in my elbow or with shoulder problems.

Circle Hook Tube Rig

by Jeff "Yakfish" Little

I had heard of people using circle hooks with soft plastics a few years ago, but never saw a need to use them. I figured that the smaller fish would grab the tail of the nose hooked bait, pull it off, and I would have to rebait the hook. I also liked the feeling of my rod meeting resistance upon hookset. After experiencing tendonitis in my elbow, I was looking for an alternative. I remembered Kevin Hoover talking about the no hook set technique used with circle hooks and I figured that I should try them out.

The directions for rigging a tube on a circle hook are below. By inserting a weight, the tube is less likely to be pulled off of the hook by a fish that can not fully inhale the rig. During my first on the water tinkering with the rig, I used a bass casting weight. The rounded bottom seemed to snag between rocks, so I decided that I needed a more cylindrical weight. The walleye weight was a more elongated weight and it did not seem to snag in the rocks as often. Overall, either rig seems to snag slightly less than an internally rigged jighead.

Once you have rigged a few and are ready to give them a try, you will need to remember not to set the hook. It is a hard habit to break for some die hard jig fishermen. It's a reflex instead of a decision to set the hook. Setting a circle hook will just leave a confused fish behind wondering what happened to lunch. When you feel a fish hit, point the rod at the fish and reel steadily at a medium speed. I had less luck when reeling steadily with the rod tip up. The rod absorbed some of the pressure and gave the fish a chance to spit it out.

I have not been using the circle hook tube rig very long, but I already see a few advantages. The hook always ends up at the jaw. This almost erases the chances of gut hooking fish. The technique is easy, so teaching it to new anglers is less frustrating than teaching how and when to set a standard hook. I will use standard jigheads again once my elbow heals, but I will always carry circle hooks for days when the bite is soft or when they are eating the tube right away and getting gut hooked. Hooksets are free, but circle hook checks cost even less.

Another way to do this for those who use tubes with a solid nose section is to use a Hitchiker on the circle hook to attach the tube.

[fishbear]

after looking at the rig, I think that is ingenious,, one questions though, how do you keep the rattle in the tube if it goes in last???   Or am I just missing something :-[

[PaparockArk]

Hmmm, I don't use a rattle and his article does not address it. That is good question so I will experiment and see.

I suppose you could use glue, or wrap rattles inside a small piece of cloth that you could then pass the hook through as you pass it through the nose of the tube are in the case of the rattle below hang the rattle on the belly of the hook as you pass it through the tube. The picture shown almost looks like the covering of an ammonia ampoule like you wave under someone's nose to snap them awake if they fainted. I suppose you could substitute a small glass rattle of equal size for the ammonia ampoule and have a readymade cover.

I know Bass pro sells this rattle that says it stays put inside the tume but it does not exact state how it is expected to do so. "Steel shot inside a specially designed aluminum chamber create a loud rattle to call fish in from a distance. Uniquely shaped to fit easily inside tube bait and stay in position, cast after cast."

[Cigarlover 1]

Hey Fish, just wanted to say good luck with the panic attacks. I have dealt with them on and off all my life. It wasn't until about 10 yrs ago that I actually figured out what it was and got treatment. For me daily medication has been an answer to my prayers. I know it doesnt work for all people though and not all people want to depend on it. Some things I've tried:

Breathing exercises - Really helps. I'll shoot you a pm.

Valerian extract - I tried it for a while but didn't really see any benefit but what doesn't work for some may work for others.

Chamomile teas - my favorite is Celestial Seasoning's Sleepytime. I don't know why but this stuff works really well for me if I'm having a mild attack. Be careful though it can make you kinda drousy. I also use it when I can't get to sleep.

Don't let anyone tell you panic attacks aren't real. Even doctors.

Good luck man.

[Guest avid]

That circle hook tube rig is totally cool.

I use circle hooks and the similar octopus hook alot.  you don't need a hook set with either, just let the rod load up and reel em in.

Never tried it with a tube, but will now.  Thanks papa.

Yo fishbear - what LBH says is a very real concern.  The medications used for panic attacks like Klonopin, Xanex, and valium are addictive.  They must be used as prescribed and in conjunction with other treatments/therapies designed to help alleviate the disorder.

That being said.  Do not let yourself become an invalid because your fearful of taking potent medications.

There is no need to become a "drooling fool" or an "airhead"

Millions of people use these medications per MD instructions and they work, drive, make important decisions and function just fine.

You and your doctor should be discussing treatments.  Remember what I said about the "slinding scale" clinics.  

there is help for you.  Yes YOU - go get it.