They are not willing to change so why bail them out? You are responsible for your future. Accept responsibility.

Exactly. They're responsible for the financial position of their companies. They must eliminate unnecessary costs. Returning 2 of the 7 jets doesn't show much of an effort on their part.

One part of me doesn't want them to go under because of all of the people who would lose their jobs BUT...

We have no business bailing out private industry, just as I believe we shouldn't have bailed out the financial markets.

GM has always been the most arrogant of the big three. Back in the late sixties and early seventies they laughed at a little upstart car company named Toyota, who was offering relatively cheap but well built cars. They weren't laughing in the eighties when Toyota, Datsun (Nissan), Subaru, etc. started kicking their butts by offering superior products at competitive prices. They (the big three) were churning out crap expecting people to buy it because they were "American" cars.

Instead of being innovators and industry leaders, they became dinosaurs. Now GM, Ford and Chrysler all have partnerships with the Japanese automakers because it's the only way they could have survived this long.

Don't get me wrong, I love this country as much as any of you. But when making a major purchase like a car, why should we have to settle for an inferior product when there are better choices out there. I'm aware that they have improved their product significantly over the years, but have done it grudingly. They became followers instead of leaders. (for the record, we own a Ford Explorer) It was a corporate decision on the big threes part that put them on the path they're on now, they have no one else to blame. If they can't compete, let them and their grossly overpaid CEO'S and boards of directors die off. This is capatalism at work. The same forces that made them fat and lazy are now coming back to get them.

It disturbs me that we were once a nation of inventors, thinkers and doers. Now we've become consumers. Our founding fathers have probably reached Australia by now from spinning in their graves.

Apologies for the long rant.

This is capatalism at work.

If you want capitalism get rid of the unions.

I'm a union member and I'll be the first to tell you I see first hand the downsides of unions eg; the lazy and inefficient being protected because of their seniority, corrupt union leadership, demanding benefits and healthcare at no cost whatsoever, etc,etc,etc.

But the unions themselves are not to blame for the mess we're in now. Labor is an easy scapegoat for the corporations, but ultimately it was their decisions that put them where they're at now.  

Oh I'm not in favor of the heads of the companies, their pay is outrageous, but so is the pay of union auto workers.  They are both to blame for this.

The unions always support the democrats.

The unions are looking for a payback.

Can the democratic president, Senate and congress not pay the unions back?

Stay tuned.