If one could break Bass fishing down to a science, like you seem to be applying it wouldnt be as fun. Fish as with an living thing including us humans will always do things that are not so called "text book". Granted there are some things to help you improve catching Bass and more of them, there is and will always be things that are just out of our hands.

GAMEOVER: Your exactly correct in stating the only rule is consistant exception, but examine those exceptions and see how they distribute around a mean, and you all of the sudden have created a trend analysis. As I have stated in this thread, I am attempting to characterize the mean and formulate strategies to work within the variences about that mean. As for taking the fun out of fishing...for some this may, but Im a nerd and this kinda stuff is fascinating to me.

cart7: I dont believe the color selector science was real sound...not to say the lab methods werent good and the suggestions arent valid, but color is so subjective...its one of the variables I am not about to try and factor in. I have found that in bio studies empirical data is better than lab data for application minded outcomes. With color you just need to know 2 things, #1 bass see the world through a sort of yellowish greenish tint, and #2 the deeper you go, fewer colors are visible with blueish colors being the most visible at depth. thats why greens work so well (yellow and blue make green). And come on you HAVE to use a little common sense about fishing considering seasonal habits and lure color choices. I am attempting to quantify the most influencial variables in a system and formulate a strategy to approach that system, not create another color selector...im not arrogant enough to think I can PREDICT anything, I just think a human brain is capable of figuring out a range of possibilities, and then narrowing those possibilities to a manageable set. And your right about the many years, I dont plan to stop fishing anytime soon!!!

roadwarrior: You have illustrated my point perfectly, so let me ask you this...where do they live, what do they want to eat, or do you have to tick em' off. Questions you face everytime you hit the h2o. I want to make a shortcut through this thought process.

BD: Here are the key variables Im considering- I am making three Assumptions #1 You can figure out the dominant seasonal phase, #2 You are familar with the local forage #3 You have a target species

**in order of importance

For General location: Predominant Seasonal Pattern (Hours Positive Radiant Energy or H2O temp-one of these two ALWAYS dictates because fish dont have calendars)

Water Trend (up or down)

Wind Direction

Water Level

Water Chemistry (pH, DO, Turbidity, Salinity....Whatever is most important)

For Typical Agression: Predominant Seasonal Pattern (ex. immidiate post spawn sucks)

Presence of wind or current in presence of forage (one of the two will generally overide the other)

Relative barometric pressure trend (Lower in warm weather=Bite/ Higher in cold weather=Bite from sun warming)

Light Level (fish dont have eyelids)

For Relation to Cover: Availability in presence of forage

Light Level

**Moon Phase ENHANCES behavior- Does not dictate

**Thermocline adjusts positioning about a structure feature-Does not dictate

The only hard and fast exception that I have found to be a rule is if a storm is severe enough (barometric pressure drop that should cause increased bite doesnt) it will cause fish only to bite either extreme finnesse or extreme reaction- Usually both work at the same time

RoLo: Im doing a hybrid ordination statistical method I picked up while working as an ecologist for the dreaded EPA

Thanks to everyone for the input and criticism...Keep it coming

Oh yeah, and someone commented on wether or not this thing is helping me catch fish. The answer is absolutely..if nothing else it helps to organize my thoughts and define a distinct direction to go in rather than random bank beating

Oh yeah, and someone commented on wether or not this thing is helping me catch fish. The answer is absolutely..if nothing else it helps to organize my thoughts and define a distinct direction to go in rather than random bank beating

This would be the direction that I would run with.

What conditions dictate where you should fish. Let the fishermen make their own conclusions on which lures to use because lures and tactics change from year to year. If the water conditions do this then the bass do that. If the weather does this then the bass do that. Then list a set of lures that cover what the bass are doing. If you make a list that shows to what degree each lure provokes a strike based on movement or vibration people are going to get lost. If you show them that when you have a cold front and the bass are hugging cover that a vertical jig will provoke more strikes than a buzzbait based on the activity level of the bass then that would be more useful to the general public. You need to explain why one lure works better under certain situations based upon the conditions and cover you are faced with. If you just give a blanket statement that this list of lures are in order based on how much the lure provokes strikes then people will not have enough information to know when it works and when to change.

Chris: I agree that a chart as a stand alone "lure selector" isnt very helpful, and cant be very accurate. The list of lures or techniques i posted here was simply a vehicle to draw criticism toward an element in a project that does exactly what you described. The lures are just arbitrary place holders that signify levels of reaction or finnesse "we" as anglers are familiar with and commonly use, so you can insert or delete as you feel necessary. This reaction gradient is the elemnt of the project that sort of ties in a number of less tangible aspects of the study with practical usable "put your hands on it" references. I initially wanted to hear different opinions on the ranking of those lure and technique constituants in order to get rid of my own bias (I like to fish jigs/drop shots/vibration baits). I didnt want my own opinions to keep me from looking at the rankings in an honest manner. The system I have described works like this:

1. Make your best guess at the dominant seasonal pattern

2. Use a reference Ive come up with to select a group of most likely productive areas in relation to the seasonal pattern (usually the areas end up being adjacent to one another so you can transition quickly if needed, and they overlap with adjacent seasonal patterns so if your off a pattern, youll still have a good chance at picking up on the dominant pattern)

3. Evaluate the Locations Based on the Variables I posted, as High or low probability for holding catchable fish

4. Evaluate the Probable Agression level of the fish (I have a reference table for this too- Its based on Variables in previous posts)

5. Evaluate the probable Relation to cover (Reference Table)

6. Select a group of techniques that relate to the most likely reaction level of the fish and are applicable for the situation (There is a High and Low reaction group available for each situation)

This sounds kinda long and drawn out, but I have it arranged such that some of the steps are worked through simultaneously. It takes me a little over 1 min to come up with a conclusion (after collecting the necessary info)

So far I havent really come up with anything "new", but when you put all the info "we" as anglers have access to in a sigle location and then organize it according to known or accepted or observed trends and rules, it really clarifys what strategy should be the most productive in a certain area at a certain time.

if your like me, I kinda get stuck on 1 thing that worked last weekend, or this time last year, or a spot that produced real good on a day like this.....

The system I have come up with helps to open up possibilities with high probability for productiveness.

As I look at all this, I see two out of three categories addressed within the whole thread:

1) Conditions and affect on appetite This includes:

-Water temp

-Seasonal pattern

-Spawning

-Barometer changes

-etc.

2) Qualities of the bait that allow it to be sensed by the fish. These include:

-Vibration

-Color

-depth fished (bottom jigs vs. topwater, etc.)

-Size

-etc.

What I don't see addressed is what I call "Catalysts". Catalysts specifically play to the fish's conditioning and reactions... think of it as psychology.

When dealing with a Coyote, you know some things about how he'll react if you understand his psychology. He'll pick at trash, hunt in packs, run from any 1:1 confrontation and if you charge into a pack of them sceraming at the top of your lungs then you know they'll scatter and run.

When dealing with Wolves you know that they'll take down live prey, take advantage of anything sickly, work in packs to cut a victim from a herd and, during mating season, will seek out 1:1 fights. They will also challange any and all others in their "family" once a year in a ritual designed to establish the dominant pecking order within the pack. This is why they don't make good pets for families... everyone in the family literally has to beat the wolf's rear end once a year to avoid being bitten or nipped at all year because you let him get dominant on you.

So, how does this apply to fish?

A) They love to hit something that is tunnel visioned as it chases something else. If a medium sized crawdad is pouncing on a minnow, a bass is going to be in heaven because it will hit the crawdad while it's tunel visioned and not watching it's back.

They love to ambush prey. They wait where there are edges, corners and other transitions where they can pounce upon an unsuspecting victim as it turns the corner.

C) They can be goaded by making them think that they're about to miss out on something good. Just like a small child who never wants a toy unless another child reaches for it, a bass may not be all that interested in a lure that you're dangling in his face... but yank it away just a foot or so and watch him snap at it. He hits what he thinks he's about to loose, not what looks as if it'll be available all day long. This is why many guys cast a spinner bait and then let it sink for 3-5 seconds before yanking the guts out of it, pausing and then doing a hook set. The fish watches the drop and doesn't react... but when the bait darts away as if it's running away, WHAM!

I've also used C above when bobber fishing with cut bait. The fish nibble and nibble... stealing the bait a little at a time. So, I move the bobber about 5-6 inches. 2 seconds later, it disappears into the water with a plopping sound. Take it away to make them want it.

Post spawn, you can catch fish that guard their fry by using a medium-large lure and making it run at the fry. This is what they do in Thailand to catch snakeheads. The fish thinks that the lure is a threat to the fry, and so nails it.

There's so much more involved than if they can detect the lure or like it's color.... the conditions tell you if they probably do or probably don't have an appetite. You can use that info to select a good strategy. IF they may bite to eat, then match the hatch or whatever else is on the local menu. If they aren't likely to feed, then use some other tactic to make them nip at your lure (mentioned above as ticking them off). Some fish are territorial and you can catch them by being the invader that has to be run off.

Ask yourself WHY the fish is likely to bite something.... and biting is different than feeding. If you can't get them to feed on your lure, maybe you can get them to kick it's butt. Either way, the hook ends up in their mouth and you end up with the fish.

Vorlin

Hey Keith.....

Perhaps if you knew what the definition of aficionado meant, you won't be floored. You jumped the gun. Time to lighten up a bit.

Wow, next time I'll think better of trying to clarify my statements so people don't think I'm coming out of left field despite that much of this thread is out of left field. I don't think anything should have floored you at all. But just so you understand what aficionado means, I'll post the definiton from Webster's below.

Main Entry: afi·cio·na·do

Variant(s): also af·fi·cio·na·do /-'nä-(")dO/

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural -dos

Etymology: Spanish, from past participle of aficionar to inspire affection, from afición affection, from Latin affection-, affectio -- more at AFFECTION

: a person who likes, knows about, and appreciates a usually fervently pursued interest or activity : DEVOTEE <aficionados of the bullfight> <movie aficionados>

In my post I wanted to talk more about what Fin-S was saying but I thought better of it because I didn't want to hijack the thread with my own ideas which may have already been published somewhere.

I'll also be sure to consider editting my avatar which says light tackle guru, sorry you think it is arrogant.

Oh, this just in, I just rejected that consideration, sorry.

Re: The Color C Lector

This instrument acurrately shows light penetration and tells the angler what color can be seen best. Nowhere does that mean that the color that can best be seen is the best option for fishing in that depth....it is simply assumed. For what it is worth, the C Lector is a pretty accurate tool, it may just have been sold under the wrong pretenses.

Every cloud has a silver lining, is the way the saying goes and in my case with my neurological disease I feel like the girl in the movie Fifty First Dates at times. At least I keep getting a first chance to get it right when it comes to new fishing techniques. I can also forget about ingrained bad habits because after a short time I probably will not remember them. Rather than videotape like in the movie, I have a huge notebook that allows me to refer to subjects and techniques when I go blank. Anything that helps me remember and helps me stay organized is a big plus for me like my computer program for my lake with a built in log feature. I also take many notes. We all have weaknesses and I try to compensate for mine to make me a better fisherman.

Surprised to see this thing is still getting hits.....

earthworm77: I would like to hear your ideas and I hope this is not too left field for you.

Took the "project" out this weekend for another field test...It worked pretty well (2nd place out of 35-40 boats).

Im getting an idea of how this thing will be helpful and how much help it can be to me. It took me about 5min to catch my first fish in practicing with it the day before the tourney, and I managed to catch what would have been a 10lb limit (10lbs always get a check on this a lake) on a day when even the local "experts" called it tough. The weather pattern shifted dramatically overnight, and I adjusted according to the info in my guide. Tournamanet day it took about 1hr to get a limit on a day that saw few of any quality. The guidance this thing imparted was not exactly specific to the best color and or presentation, but it got the reaction response correct, and the area correct. I caught all my non-cull keeper fish on a 100yd stretch of a flat. It was 1 of 2 places on the lake that fit the "optimum position" description from the guide. The other "optimum position" was employed by the winners of the tourney for their limit.

For a couple hours during practice and for about 30 min of the tourney I went to  some "real good spots" that did not fit with the guide recomendations, and had no luck.

The guide was no help in nailing down the particulars of the optimum color pattern, this was something I had to experiment around with and it was actually my partner who had the correct idea about color from the very beginning. So it does have some limitations. It was though very useful in finding the concentration and quality of fish needed to take a check home.

I reflection, i am realizing that there is really nothing new under the sun or the water, but constructing a tool that allows for quick accurate organization of the most influential variables in a system to make a descision might be novel. I believe this guide will after a few more years of scrutinization become a very valuable tool in quickly locating and patterning catchable fish.

Fin, maybe we could have a go in a pm. I have published several bass fishing related books and eBooks and one in particular has a lot of ink dedicated to the path you are going down. I kind of kept quiet because I didn't want to hijack your thread. What some guys won't get is that nobody is wrong here. I mean, you simply can't dispute something simply because it didn't work for you but at the same time you certainly can't write something off as gospel because it did.

My belief on how to go about catching fish is based more upon season as a starting point and then it gets broken down from there based on literally huindreds of variables. I wouldn't be able to break this down any other way for me anyway. It has worked for me. It may be we are describing a very similar system only making it sound a bit different.

Mr. Worm:

Check out your PMs.

I must have a week mind cause reading this thread done give me a headache