Team9nine

Sorry, but you’ve lost me on this one. I’m trying to understand, though. So if you “clamp down on the spool” during the hook set as mentioned in the post above (essentially now no drag, however brief, correct?), how would you ever break off every fish on the strike as mentioned in the post before this last one by instead not clamping down and having a 70% drag setting as I mentioned? I have a little slip built into the system “just in case,” but you remove that slip by clamping down on the hook set, yet not breaking off. What am I missing here? I get your points on reel setting, imagined stretch, etc. Thanks for the discussion...

Even on your traditional long casts with all the inherent stretch in nylon and fluoro based lines, plus “sag,” you feel you generate enough force to break 10-12# line on a hook set with a minimum 30% forgiveness (drag) built into the system (the line tests stronger than rated, obviously)?

The drag they force you to pay a lot of money for - lol. Which brings up an interesting question. How much cheaper could they build a reel if they didn’t include a drag, washers and adjustment mechanisms for people like me? How much less weight and size could they save? An even lighter/simpler bait cast reel with the thumb bar/disengage lever that was on the original Castaics and I’d switch every reel I have over to them ? I do use that expensive drag, sort of...I just set it at around 70% of max or line wt.

Manual...always ?

One of my first, and favorite spinning reels was a Cardinal, albeit a “newer” version than the green/cream ones, but it still maintained the rear drag feature that I used frequently before becoming more proficient with backreeling. They were much easier to adjust while playing a fish than the front drag models, though not as accurate or smooth as you mention. As for the 25’ and out, I often use back reeling at those distances and greater to ease pressure on a bigger fish that is coming up to jump. Backreeling allows you to still keep the same rod angle and feel on the fish the entire time, and then immediately increase pressure as needed. It is surprising how many fish won’t end up jumping once you take some of that pressure off and just maintain enough tension to keep the hook in place until he/she turns back down.

Let me spin the question around and pose it this way... What makes someone think that setting and using a single drag setting (usually recommended at 25-33% line rating), will accomplish and handle every situation you can think of, knowing that your drag (and drag in general) is changing constantly on every single cast? What you set your drag to while on the reel will be different than what it is with 30 ft of line out, 60 ft of line out, 90 ft of line out (it increases as effective spool diameter decreases) - overall drag will be different depending on the angle of the rod during a fight, the amount of line out, which direction the fish runs, the type of line you are using and the amount of stretch it has; or conditions such as whether you have the fish just barely skin hooked by a single small barb, or whether the line has been degraded because of use or during a fight, or how much pressure you'll actually get on a hookset at various distances? Somehow a single magic setting on today's ultrasmooth drags handles all these situations? Even if you "tweak" the drag during a fight, you have no confident level of what you have done. So you know your setting was 3 lbs. of drag on your reel with your 10 pound line. Now, during a fight, you adjust the drag up a few "clicks" or down a few "clicks," but just how much did it change? You now have no clue how much you let off or added. You only know there is 'more' or 'less' than what you originally set at. You have no way to gauge this because now your "feel" is totally different because of a changed initital drag setting. Not sure if that helps explain or not, but those are the things I think of and feel are overlooked by just using "auto." So just settle for an automatic transmission in all your vehicles under all cases and be happy 90% of the time like most bassers

And why wouldn’t greater control not be an advantage? I guess I view today’s modern and much improved reels similar to today’s modern and much improved electronics. For most people, running “auto” mode after answering a few simple setup questions works just great for probably close to 90% of electronic users; but then there are those like me who have to put the unit in advanced mode and tweak the settings manually, removing any ‘auto’ function capacity because I want the most control over the unit. I feel it provides me with a slight edge over “auto” and maximizes my odds of a potentially productive day, which is sometimes dictated by landing a single nice fish. Backreeling and thumb barring are my manual override for reels, taking the drag off “auto” and allowing me to tweak that reels response to every bassin’ situation you can think of. No, I wouldn’t do it with tuna or bonefish, etc., but that’s getting off-topic in this discussion (a bass forum). We (BRers/TBers) are obviously a minority, and I wouldn’t tell anyone they HAVE to do this, but I also wouldn’t say it’s dumb or unnecessary. It works, and works well for those who have learned how, and continue to do it. YMMV (obviously) ?

He posted on FB to comment/guess on size, so the answer is coming...and I’d be shocked if there wasn’t a future video to go with it ?

We’ve thoroughly discussed this topic many times before here. Like you, I also backreel, but we’re the minority, and the fact manufacturers are starting to build reels without that switch is further proof of that ?

I believe he (OP) is specifically referring to baitcasting gear in this instance from the sound of it... You either push the button before any significant load is on the reel, or use your thumb to back the spool up a fraction so the load is released while you depress the thumb bar (all done very quickly and almost concurrently). As you suggest, if you try and release under heavy load, bad things can happen, both mechanically and physically - lol.

Have heard of a few baitcasters that had that switch, but only think I ever owned one (an old Garcia?)...not including my line counter reels that all have mechanical release levers ?

I do it all the time. It’s referred to as “thumb barring,” kind of the equivalent of backreeling (done with spinning reels) in my book, which I also do...for the same reasons.

I did some digging around and came up with this for the 1959 fish. Unfortunately, no pics. This was in the Sept. 27, 1959 Detroit Free Press. Interestingly, there have been two claims and supposed confirmation of a new MI state record bass over the years. July 29, 1971 it was reported that a Gerald A Blocker of Ann Arbor caught a 12-01 that was 26-7/8" and caught from "a lake in Oakland Co." according to DNR on a spinning outfit with 6# test and a plastic worm casting off a dock. It was later reported as 24.75" with a 23.75" girth. That fish must have been scratched from the records at some point though articles claiam it was recorded as the record by DNR. Another bass claimed a record weighing 12-15.5 by a Dan Fitgerald back on June 14, 1982 from Wamplers Lake on a #11 black and silver Rapala. It was reported in several papers over several weeks, but I don't know what happened or what was found out that it isn't listed as the current record. DNR was aware of the fish as they supposedly confirmed it, so these fish might be a question for your contacts at the agency.

I’ve been throwing 1/8 and 3/16 all year in my ponds and doing well (listed jig weight w/o trailer). Not sure why you’d need to go heavier unless your ponds have heavy cover you need to work in. Might be worth a try...

It won’t be me ? those days of fishing all over the state are over. I know a person or two chasing after a DD bass around here, but that’s still a far cry from a nearly 15 lb bass. If it ever happens, it will probably be a fluke just like the current record. We’ll see

...not in Indiana - lol. We’re kind of like Mass. in that our state record was a freak, pounds above the previous records, and has now stood for almost 30 years. Plus, our big bass waters have all been fished down hard over the past couple decades. We might one day thanks to a warming climate...or Livescope ? but I’m not expecting it in my lifetime

They’re good, but he (OP) mentioned that he had already tried them. Sounded like he was looking for one he hadn’t tried yet.

Jewel Baits Squirrel Head by Kriet

You can never know or say for sure, but over here we’re supposed to have cloud cover and warming temps into next week (today cold and clear again). I’d probably wait a couple more days if your forecast is the same as ours. Usually better to catch a warming trend than a cooling trend.

Wish I would have stocked up more than I did, but it was getting hard to get orders toward the end...

Of course not, but it somewhat depends on if you're just talking about the 'Ned rig' ('power finesse' the way most fish it) or Midwest Finesse (Ned's way)...or even who you talk to - lol. Even Ned had a short stint using VMC Moon Eye jigs after Gopher closed but before Zman resurrected their heads/molds. Mushroom heads (especially Gophers) do have their advantages and fish differently than ball heads, pill heads, etc.

Yes (TRD), along with many others. Ned and friends primarily like curlytail grubs or swimbaits like the Slim SwimZ for the steady swim retrieve. The floating/stand up on the bottom deal is largely a marketing gimmick promulgated by others (...and Zman). Not saying it might not help at times, but it was never the primary reason for using it. It has also been commented that the buoyancy might help with the no-feel retrieve. The main argument for Elaztech (Zman) baits is the durability - being able to catch 30-50-100 bass on the same piece of plastic. As for the many retrieve comments above - lol - I find them all "interesting." There are (now) 6 retrieves for a reason. When you figure out why, you'll be ahead in the 'Ned' game

No...but I guess that depends on how you fish a shaky head

That only happens if you are cinching it wrong, or tying it wrong, though the heavier the line, the more surface area for friction. There should be near zero friction on a properly tied Palomar. Pull both tag and main together at the same time. I don't even like the word "cinch" - lol - as I simply just snug the knot tight...without lubrication, though it rarely hurts. Chap Stick or similar is better than spit. If the loops do get a little uneven, do as Catt said and snug from the tag, not the main...but risk for heat generation is greater at that point.

Lots of “debris,” no thermocline, a couple large schools of baitfish but with very few larger fish around them.