Challenged with guide placement on 5ft soft spinning

[rudderless]

I have built a couple rods..one from CRB and rebuilt a 5ft soft Daiwa  that I bought mid 1970's or so...only had 3 guides.  Both came out better than anything I have ever bought.  I also have another identical Daiwa 5ft rod bought same time.  Im in the process of placing the guides using the static test.  When i bend the tip 90 deg to butt most of the bending happens at the reduction guides...about half way down the pole.  This makes the guide placement using the NGC or the KT setup real funky looking.  No where on that tangent bend chart does that pole fit either.  I have checked out probably 5 different ways to place the guides but feel the static test is best.

 

Why bother with that pole?  It is real handy on my boat which is rather cramped. 

 

So...what to do..

[MikeK]

What size reel and line?

 

Consider using whatever method you choose for the first guide, then moving it towards the reel a couple of inches. Put the second reduction guide +7 inches and third +6 inches then runners equally spaced to tip.  Static test and cast and move as needed.

[MickD]

I would add 3 running guides to give 3 reduction and 3 running guides, place them with the two line static test. https://anglersresource.net/static-load-tutorial/

[casts_by_fly]

I'm going to make a couple assumptions which may or may not be right.  You're talking a 'soft' rod which I take to mean slower action.  You're also talking about a 5' rod which I'm going to say is reasonably light power.  To me, that means a relatively small reel, max size around a 2500 but possibly a 500 too.  Also, as a 5' rod you're not making a distance casting machine.

 

For me, I'd probably end up with a high frame 20, a 12 in the same frame, and then running guides to the tip as needed.  I'd guess 5 guides in total but it depends on the rod.  I'd keep them light-- you're talking about an older floppy rod in the first place so don't burden it with much other weight.  From there I'd cast it and load test it to see how it runs.

[rudderless]

Thanx all...appreciate the reply.  Yep...it is a slow pole  with 1000 aprox reel.  I took the spool dia and multiply by 27 for choke point.  If I use the projected line of the spool and it ends up almost past tip.  So I used the 27 method.  The pole has the Tennessee style so I shaved the cork where the reel sits at an angle so the projected line of spool ends up at the x27 mark.  The CRB chart shows 8 guides for a 5ft pole...don't think I need 8..

 

If I use static test the main bend if pole is by the reduction guides.  The first 16 inches is almost straight when pulled at a 90 deg angle.  When i tape the guides on and pull to set the guides the reduction guides are closer together then the running guides.  I bought the CRB guide set for it..20,12,8,6 and 4 running guides. 

 

No big deal...probably tryin to separate pepper from fly poop..it is a nice pole for confined areas...I have 10 other poles to use but I'm always grabbing that one.

 

Again. thanx for the ideas!

 

 

[MickD]

You probably will use light line on it so the 20 is plenty big, probably bigger than needed.  But it will work.

 

As you get more experienced you will buy guides separately rather than sets, and there does not need to be a progressive reduction in size of the running guides.  After the reduction guides, all runners can be the same size, and smaller/lighter is better consistent with passing all the knots you plan to use.  I have made rods with only two reduction guides, and with braids of about 15 pound test it works just fine.  I now exclusively use the KLH reduction guides and KT/KB runners.  

[rudderless]

yea..I might shorten the reduction guide length and run more running guides..that would help my situation.  Using braid..the reel currently has 40lb 8 strand test on my other identical pole..only cause of all the obstructions in the Mohawk river.  Gotta pull up hard to clear snags as I dislike loosing lures. I'll use 15lb for this pole. 

 

 

[spoonplugger1]

The 27X system was suggested by Tom Kirkman 15 years ago or so. It's purpose was to give a system that, under most circumstances, would allow a person to produce a reasonable guide train. It don't care if the rod is 5 ft. long or 15 ft. long, doesn't take into account line size, line type, etc. Just remember if you use this system the running guides are irrelevant, it spaces the reduction guides and if the rod is short enough to only allow for reduction guides only, that is the way you build it. Simply put it is a "Jack of All Trades" system.

[rudderless]

Well..while i was doing paper work in my office last night I settled on a placement scheme. 

 

Using the NGC and moving the choke point one guide closer for the KR system allows me to place rest of guides close enough to satisfy the static test.  I also moved the butt guide to 16 inches to spool.  Issue was If I stayed faithful to setting the reduction guides to NGC it would

 fail the static test.  So by moving butt guide closer to reel and shortening the 3 reduction guides and choke point to16 inches in length from reel seat I could set the rest of guides..7 total..where the pole says they should be.

 

My other sister pole I set up old school..proportional with 6 guides..and it works just fine.  We will see if this setup is better than the sister pole.  Both 5ft poles scribe a semi circle from reel seat to tip..

 

Thanx all..