Time for an open thread on all things reels! Anything goes! 

 

Post any repairs, upgrades, modifications, maintenance, & restorations you may have to share with everyone.

 

Also feel free to post any comments, advice, suggestions, or questions that any and all can answer and reply to.

 

Mag Brake for Langley

Required end tension on direct drive reels is a constant force from beginning through end of cast. Mag brake force is proportional to spool speed, so the spool without end tension starts up with zero brake force, reaches max force quickly, and brake force decreases through remainder of the cast. Mag brake lets you cast light lures reliably without end tension and only using thumb for start and end of cast.  I first noticed the cupped spool flanges on Langley had enough room to fit 3-mm-tall N52 magnets.  

 

The procedure is to mill square-shouldered holes halfway through the 2-mm side-plate-thickness, and set M2 black steel washers in epoxy putty.  Mark drill locations halfway between feed-clicker spring and spool groove in the backplate. Initial drill foot to about 0.5 mm using 2-3-mm bit.  

 

Drill to max 1.2-mm deep using 5.2-mm boring bit.  Finish square-shoulders on drill holes to 0.8-mm depth using 5-mm end mill.  

 

The deeper cone allows a foot for epoxy putty. Here, I clean in ultrasonic to remove drill residues before setting putty,  

 

M2 black steel washers are set in epoxy putty, by pressing with top of 5.2-mm drill bit. Initial epoxy flash is cleaned with plastic scraper, and final wash with alcohol swab. After the epoxy is set, N52 magnets snap into place. Magnet poles should alternate N-S-N-S.  

 

Magnet force can be adjusted by the number and size of magnets. Example above using one 5x3-mm magnet and three 4x3-mm magnets. Magnet force can be reduced by replacing one or more magnets with 2-mm-thick magnets.  

You only need enough brake force to get the spool across the hump at mid-cast without backlash. 

Mag brake should be set for mid cast throwing the lightest lure you plan to fish, and it will be set for all heavier weights. 

 

A freespool Langley like the Target in my first photo will fish 1 g.  A level-wind direct-drive Langley will fish 2 g.  

Nice work BullDog! Is that new reel or old reel? I don't think I have ever seen one of those before.

 

First up from my workbench is an overhaul/repair of an original 1990's Shimano BaitRunner 6500. Schematic says 1991-1992 era.

 

I purchased it at a pawn shop in a bundle deal and paid around $40 plus a rod. Its an old salty dog that actually still works as a reel, but the baitrunner portion was non-functioning due to the failure of one part damaged by saltwater intrusion inside the reel. And the baitrunner lever was also corroded needing replaced.

 

This goes straight into a Shimano recommendation to NEVER Rinse off your reels after use, especially in saltwater. Shimano recommends using a dry cloth with some sort of polish like lemon pledge is always mentioned.

 

When I worked in a reel repair shop I heard this same recommendation daily explained to customers who without fail rinsed their reels off. They always came in the front door saying "but I rinsed it off after each use!" We are sure you did. And that is in part why you are here now.

 

The reason for this is because the water pressure from a hose can push water and salts deeper into reels leading to even more corrosion and faster premature failure of the reels.

 

Even though parts are no longer made for this reel, there are still plenty of parts out there for these reels. I had no trouble sourcing what I needed.

 

The first issues I ran across was some minor damage to the spool from saltwater corrosion under the line. This is actually quite common in Florida and easily avoidable. This spool is salvageable.

 

Digging deeper into the spool and it appears the former owner never backed off his drag after use.

 

Taking a look at the drag washers shows severe compression. The edges of this drag washer shows how it squeezed up and around the key washer it was cranked down so tight and left that way. This can lead to reduced drag ability in a reel. So the suggestion I would make is to ALWAYS back off your drag after each use. I do it religiously because of this right here.

 

It kind of looks like a frisbee around the edges when it should be flat all the way across, and not so severely compressed.

 

The center drag washer had this compressed raised edge going in both directions.

 

I will try and reuse these for now and see how it pans out. I may replace them.

 

 

Here is a minor issue of no real consequence, but is just one of the things I was taught along the way over the years. The key washers in a drag stack are not perfectly cut out. They are actually punched out, and this causes them to have a unique shape on the edges.

 

If you use one side of the key washer you get X amount of surface area to contact the drag washer, but if you use the punch side, it actually has a slight bit more metal to make contact with drag washers leading to a miniscule X+ amount of drag friction increase. Honestly not enough to bother with for most people, but this is just one of those things I always do just because.

 

 

Turned on its edge so you can see the size difference between the two sides of this top key washer. The left side has slightly more metal to make contact than the right side. I always look at them and just put the largest side to the drag washer and call it a day.

 

 

This reel I have is the first earliest version of a baitrunner ever made. So it was made before the use of an anti-reverse bearing. This uses a ratchet system and it is supposed to be aligned straight across and centered when together, but I found this reel had been shimmed out with 3 shim washers that changed the AR alignment nearly 50% off center!

 

 

I can't leave it that way so I removed the 3 shims to see where it moved to:

 

And it centered right back up where it is supposed to be.

 

 

Now that I know what the issue is, since I can't remove those shims or even move them to a different location on the pinion gear, when I get a couple new parts in the mail and go back into this reel I will adjust the other part to meet the shimmed out part.

 

Another option here on this out of alignment AR would be to change the size of the rotor bearing which measured out to a 9x20x6mm bearing. So that's a IDxODxT measurement I could change to preferred 9x20x5.5mm if they made it. I would probably have to dial back to a 9x20x5mm and then just shim upwards with washers to get the alignment corrected.

 

This reel also provides me with a 3rd option to adjust this AR alignment. I could machine down a part making it thinner, but I won't go there until a last resort.

 

When putting a reel back together pay attention to wear patterns on parts. I found some wear on a cover plate on the rotor. I see where the black paint has been worn off in 4 places, and so upon reassembly, a little bit of grease on those spots would help reduce friction with the parts causing this wear.

 

 

Another issue I brought up in the reel maintenance thread has to do with the bail itself.

 

The first issue is that over time corrosion can lead to the bail wire becoming solidified to the bail holder. This prevents the necessary movement for the bail to self align. So when the bail is taken apart I use a penetrating oil to soak into the bail holder and I slowly begin to twist the bail wire back and forth gently breaking the bond and making it so the bail wire can now move freely and twist in the bail holder so as the reel is used this part can move freely leading to more efficient operation of the bail itself.

 

Also do the same on the other end of bail wire and make sure the line guide roller holder also rotates freely on the bail wire. They should not be all one solid piece! It all works better when these three parts can freely move around within each other and self align during use.

 

Quite often the bails get bent out of shape. When this happens it can bind up the bail arm and bail holder where they attach on the rotor acting as hinges. These two parts should be perfectly straight and with ZERO side pressure.

 

But when a bail gets bent, it does put side pressure on the bail hinges that makes it more difficult to open and close properly. So as the reel goes back together pay close attention to this detail and don't just move it back into place and put the screw into it. Take the time to carefully bend the bail wire back so that it is properly aligned straight to each other before screwing it back in.

 

Take a look how far off this Shimano baitrunner's bail was. It is almost an inch out of alignment.

 

 

So I began carefully bending the bail... getting closer

 

 

And now back to where it should be before screwing it all back together. Now the bail arm and holder will have NO side pressure causing any binding when opening and closing the bail. Swings in both directions cleanly and nicely now.

 

 

And she's back in operation, but still not completed. I am now at a place where I can judge this reel and take notes of what to do next. Things like a new rotor bearing, shimming the AR properly so it is aligned perfectly straight again, and maybe some new drag washers, and I plan on beefing up the rear baitrunner drag mechanism as well. It is not as strong now as it should be. I will deal with all that down the road when the couple of new parts I ordered arrive.

 

But now my 12 year old son will have a classic Shimano baitrunner to toss out some shrimp on. And this reel is now fully prepped with military grade corrosion inhibitor on all metal parts and will soon be ready for some big reds and snook.

 

He might get another 35 years out of it!

 

Both Langleys are older than me - early postwar.  

Langley was eventually bought by Zebco and produced through 1968.  

The 310XN Streamlite came from a Japan bench, where he did amazing work, narrowing the reel from original wide spool KC, shallow drum on the narrowed spool, and increased gear ratio to 5.6.  

 

He also converts original RH reels to LH, and sells them all on Yahoo   

Here's his ameba.jp blog - https://www.ameba.jp/profile/general/nkmaker/

 

@FloridaFishinFool ps - I did a mag brake conversion on Target for Matt Wickham (ORCA president and author), and he cast it in ACA casting competition last month - these reels are go-to for vintage tournament casting, both distance and accuracy, though they're known to be crazy fast and hard to control - solved.  

26 minutes ago, bulldog1935 said:

 Magnet poles should alternate N-S-N-S.  

 

Why are they all not aligned with same polarity? I'm trying to wrap my head around this.

 

That is some unbelievable modification work. Lots of work no doubt about it. Great tool skills too and machine work!

 

For a minute there I thought you were going to whip out a bamboo pole to go with it! 😁

@FloridaFishinFool

 

Jose's paper calculated force and torque, his conclusion stated why you want alternating magnet poles - alternating poles gives you pure torque w/o unbalanced side load.  He stated he didn't address inertia, which is the most important to us - lower inertia starts quicker and takes less brake force to get the same brake result, increasing spool speed and light-lure distance.  

I'll look up full report.

 

On those Langley reels, you said they are used in casting competition so I am curious about the level wind line guide.

 

Does it move along with the spool locked into it like the Abu round reels are? Or, is the level wind line guide stationary and free spooling during a cast?

 

I'm curious about this because on the Abu's the extra drag from the line guide can really be a cast killer.

This '77 4500C from my bench will cast 3 g beyond 150'

Spool bearings are full-ceramic SiN, and LW-dual-BB mods all have zirconia full-ceramic (you can see the worm shaft bearing on this end).  Alloy LW rider, zirconia pawl.   Avail shallow spool, PE#1. 

@FloridaFishinFool

Here's Jun Sonada's heirachy for tuning Ambassadeur for light-lure distance:  

https://japantackle.com/Tackle_topics/abu_tuneup.htm

The Japanese have been making these parts since 1985, and coined the term BFS for small-frame Ambassadeur c. 2000.  

 

Langley DD-LW is driven off the main gear, ultimately the spool and pinion, but it's an amazingly efficient design, and really great bushings.  It's easy to argue these reels were the original BFS 50 years before BFS had a name.  

 

Target is freespool, NLW - pulling out the handle lifts the main gear from the pinion, and there's a friction sleeve in the side plate to hold it engaged or disengaged.  

@FloridaFishinFool

Can you please give the brand of corrosion inhibitor you use?

Interesting thread. Some great stuff being shared here.

 

I've been just doing routine maintenance on my handful of reels. Wiping off the accumulated scum, oiling the level wind and bearings. New line.

 

My Abu Black Max 3 got new line 2 days in a row. For some reason I backlashed severely when fishing. I was sitting on the ground and touched something with my back cast, but I didn't think I grabbed it. Nevertheless, my thumb went dumb for a split second.

11 hours ago, little giant said:

@FloridaFishinFool

Can you please give the brand of corrosion inhibitor you use?

 

I use corrosion X. I use the more liquid version in red can for things like bearings, AR bearings and coating parts with thin layer and in the boat on things like spraying my entire outboard motors, and boat electronics circuit boards and connectors. Water can't touch what this product is on.

 

And I use their blue can which is basically the same thing but thicker more like a runny grease for more industrial applications and sometimes in reels as well.

 

Its not cheap. A 16oz red spray can these days is close to $30. But it works well.

 

They even make a product called reelX but I have never used it. It is more liquid than the red can, but I am happy with the red spray can.

 

These are full synthetic high quality lubricants as well as military spec'd corrosion inhibitors. From their website: "CorrosionX is the only product readily available to the public that meets the U.S. Navy's tough new corrosion prevention and control performance requirement MIL-PRF-81309H."

I like this idea for a thread!! Giving me motivation to crank up the Motley Crue and do something with my 80’s reels that I can’t seem to let go of. 

Custom Millionaire SW103.  Alphas Air handle, spool cap, and handle nut retainer, PX68 star wheel, Duralumin Alphas Ito gear set, drag clicker, Alphas pinion shaft, 1012 SV G1 spool.  It absolutely bombs from 3g on up.

I built a "sleeper build" TD-Z US Trail.  This thing was in rough outer shape.  I had meat headed the palm plate and cracked the tab that helped hold it on but had an old Fuego that had a terrible custom paint job so I swapped that on.  Replaced the gears set (from 5.7 to 7.1). Added carbontex drag. Stainless ABEC 5 bearings to everything I could possibly add bearings too (had them leftover from when I liked to do that stuff).  100mm Carbon Handle for absurdity.  Kept the stock 100m spool as it's freakin' awesome.

 

Thing is like that clapped out Civic that shows up at a drag strip and blows the doors off all comers.

 

20+ years old.  Modern drag performance and retrieve ratio. Bombs all the stuff I throw and weighs less than 6.9oz.  All done for less money than the price of a Curado M (reel and upgrades).

Millionaire Ringa SSS.  7.2:1 Alphas SV105SH gears, Alphas pinion shaft, Millionaire CT SV magnet assembly, Roro spool and bearings.  The original magnet assembly was too powerful for the Roro spool, giving the braking an all or nothing feel.  The CT SV magnet assembly is thinner and weaker, letting it work better with a lighter spool and giving the full range of braking back.  It can throw 2g quite a distance.

Shedding 3 oz from small-frame Ambassadeur.  

1500C bought from Don Iovino - he had already made the Avail worm-gear modification, and it was cool to get his signature on the tailplate.  

 

I made these changes in stages, first Avail frame and spool together shed 1.5 oz.    Also, my shorter Haneda Craft alloy handle was a better match for the low gears than the 70-mm heavily-chromed handle he had installed.  

Conversion to IAR included a new 2500CI right-side plate from ereplacementparts, Avail drive-side brake plate, mainshaft and drag stack, alloy trim, Avail idler and BB-pinion, 

 

and Avail L/S brake plate.   Getting to this final 6.0 oz costs about $100/oz in aftermarket parts, and I routinely fish 1.5 g on this reel.  

 

I've posted this one before... sometimes shedding weight is not always the best idea. It may work fine for people who can take good care of their reels and maintain them at the highest level, but in the REEL world of reel-ality 99.99% of people simply do not, and MOST cannot maintain their reels to this level, and so a gear like this pretty blue one is not realistic for the majority of people using this type of reel- in my opinion.

 

 

This next image shows the "reel" world... and what shops all across the country "reely" see on an almost daily basis.

 

 

And because of this real world problem, less plastic with this kind of torque involved would shred that pretty blue plastic gear just as fast- unless it were made of a much stronger plastic.

 

And so the company who makes this type of reel had to go back to the drawing table and have their engineers come up with a quick fix solution to this shedding of weight problem going into too much plastic that just does not hold up. And this is what their engineers came up with as a replacement part. They had no choice but to put metal back into the reels- adding weight back in.

 

 

Sometimes less is not always better. It might be for those who can maintain their reels to a high degree daily and even keep the cork on their rod handles looking like new with zero dirt which amazes me to see, but this is in no way representative of the vast majority of people who use these reels.

 

Sometimes reels require metal in order to remain durable over the long term. And this is one of those cases. (In my opinion of course)

 

As the lubrication wears out, and line guides gets jammed with dirt and debris and increases the amount of torque needed to move it is when those teeth on the smaller gear begin to feel the strain until they strip out and reel is toast.

 

If it were my reel I would not reduce the structural integrity of a reel seeking less weight in all areas. This is one of those cases where I would be putting into my reel the "improved" replacement part.

 

Just pointing this out. Less is not always better!

 

I bet this thread doesn't need an editor.  

 

Nylon gears were never a good idea - I fished through my Mitchell 300 in 4 years of HS catching Spanish macks from the jetties.  

Avail's part is PET, not nylon, giving better wear and brinnelling resistance.  

How you gonna brinnell a worm-gear driver, anyway - what giant crushing load are you going to put on a LW (w/ 4 ball bearings).  

Probably my most favorite reel in my stash, scratch built 2500CIAR.  I built this for 3g and up for chasing after resident trout, bigger migratory browns and rainbows, and coho salmon.  NOS side plates, Avail 2bb idler, Avail frame, brake plate, bearing plate, and star wheel, 2520R spool, 1520 mag brake with 2x 4x3mm and 1x 4x2.5mm magnets, Avail 2bb level wind, Avail line guide, Simon Shimomura's Gokigen clutch and 6.3:1 gears, and finished with a Haneda Craft 60mm.

12 minutes ago, FloridaFishinFool said:

Sometimes less is not always better. It might be for those who can maintain their reels to a high degree daily and even keep the cork on their rod handles looking like new with zero dirt which amazes me to see, but this is in no way representative of the vast majority of people who use these reels.

By and large, the people that do build these also maintain their own reels.  The only modified reels that grace my bench are my own or those I've built for others.

You will never see me in the "unreelistic" show and tell thread.

 

To me rods and reels are nothing more than tools same as a hammer or screwdriver. Tools I use and beat up. I like it that way.

 

As a reel tech in a rod and reel repair shop we never saw show and tell reels because the people who have them do their own work. No, what I and the shop always saw was the reels coming from the vast majority of people who love to fish, but do not work on their own tackle.

 

I was paid to fix and repair everyone else's problems on a daily basis. NOT turn any of them into display showcase reels. That's not me. That's not what I do.

 

A thread like this one (for my part) is designed to be informative towards that vast majority side of people out there in the reel world who may want to try their hand at working on their own reels. A thread like this one and the maintenance thread found elsewhere can provide a lot of good information for those people. I come from the working class and I feed back into that working class.

 

While I really enjoy seeing the beautiful reels and work everyone does, it is just not for me. And more than likely not for the vast majority of people out there in the "reel" world.

 

Those of you who are into display showcase quality reels, don't get me wrong, what you do is fantastic. Its beautiful to behold like that red and black millionaire above is just stunning. But I am not here for that. I could really care less about display reels. I much prefer reels ground to a halt filled with dirt, sand, crabs, fish, seaweed, and rusted to a halt that some say I should just throw away- their opinion, not mine.

 

I want a challenge. Not just being a parts swapper on mostly already like new reels that don't need repairs. whoopie. I want to bring old dead reels back to life and hand it to some kid who can't afford a decent reel. Here kid. Go catch fish with this. Let's see a smile on that face! That's what its all about.

 

When I worked at the rod and reel shop all of us who worked there donated our time and money and efforts to kid charity events to give them rods and reels for free. We spend our time and money repairing them just so we can see a smile on some kids face. And that is where my focus is.

 

In the last 10 minutes I have just purchased yet another reel dirt cheap for less than $20 that will be given to a child to hopefully get some fishing enjoyment out of it. I am service oriented. Not driven to showcase display level. I simply cannot go there.

 

So in this thread what you will see from me is repairs. Overhauls. Bringing the dead back to life. I could care less about it being pretty or shaved 3 ounces off its weight. That is not what it is all about to me and never will  be. But for those who are into that its great! Keep it up. We all love to see showcase display quality reels and all that it takes to create them and maintain them, but you gotta realize that is NOT for the vast majority of us out here. Just good reel entertainment is all it is reely. 😁

 

I am trying to put out there average Joe repair information. Nothing more. Nothing less. Sharing of information so others can maybe learn a thing or two that might actually help THEM! That is my intent here.

@redmeansdistortion - thanks for posting nice reels.  

My two scratch reels are both CT surf/tournament reels in BFS mod.  

4500CT built on Zzeta + Avail parts, goal is surf metal microjig matched with 8'9" Abu shore microjig rod.  Stainless 6.3 Mannfish gears from UK.  

   

and 2500CIT built on Zzeta frame, for shore salt finesse to match two 8' rods, a multipiece for bike-only tide barriers, and a better 2-pc rod for kayak transit.  

This reel has Simon's bad-boy brass gearing w/ even badder-boy pinion.  

 

In April, it was casting 1/4-oz plug 200', but a half-dozen dolphins arrived when the tide began to swing and the fish had just turned on, shutting us down.   Speaking of better rod, PureLure Seabed was hooking fish at 180'.   It's ok, the two-hour drift home was killer flats fishing, with a spec limit, a half-dozen reds, and killer camp meal of grilled fish tacos.  

 

Stunning beauty Bulldog! You maintain at the highest level I've ever seen. Don't think anyone can keep up with you on this!

 

Not a speck of dirt anywhere and not even a scratch!

 

I bet its a great joy using tackle like that.

For me, what I enjoy is taking a lifeless dead old reel that should be in the trash and giving it a whole new life and many more years of fishing enjoyment. Nothing better in my hands than some beat up old reel reeling them in once again!

 

One day you should post one photo of your entire collection so we can all get a better idea of the extent of what you do!

10 minutes ago, FloridaFishinFool said:

Those of you who are into display showcase quality reels, don't get me wrong, what you do is fantastic. Its beautiful to behold like that red and black millionaire above is just stunning. But I am not here for that. I could really care less about display reels. I much prefer reels ground to a halt filled with dirt, sand, crabs, fish, seaweed, and rusted to a halt. I want a challenge.

Brother, I spend a few weeks a year in the wilderness sleeping in hammocks, wading streams, hanging my pack from trees out of the reach of bears, foraging for wild mushrooms, ramps, and asparagus, and catching trout and smallmouth and eating them on the river banks.  I take my stuff places most people don't, and it's all still in beautiful shape because I take care of my stuff.  I'm not spending $1000 to build a reel and kick it around like it's a PoS.  I'm not that guy.  I want it to last.  If you want to treat your gear poorly, that's completely up to you.  Those of us that appreciate our own as well as the craftsmanship of the companies that built these, see things differently.  

11 minutes ago, redmeansdistortion said:

 If you want to treat your gear poorly, that's completely up to you.  Those of us that appreciate our own as well as the craftsmanship of the companies that built these, see things differently.  

 

I think I am being misunderstood.

 

I was a repair tech for the vast majority of people in the world who do not take good care of their tackle and need service techs to keep them up and running. My description you quoted "I much prefer reels ground to a halt filled with dirt, sand, crabs, fish, seaweed, and rusted to a halt. I want a challenge." is NOT about my rods and reels. That description is for those brought into the shop by average Joe's out there who do not take good care of their tackle.

I surely do not treat my tackle poorly. I have rods near 50 years old like new. I take care of my personal tackle but not to the same degree you might. My rod collection is valued somewhere between $10 to $15K. Rare rods in there. Some I don't even use because I have so many I don't want to abuse one of a kind rods that really should be in a museum somewhere like those I have hand made by Dick Kantner a now deceased CIA spy who flew the BlackBird plane for a career and started his own carbon fiber composites company that made airplane parts and fishing rods. He carried his secret to his grave so his rods are one of a kind and will never come again.

 

Does anyone on this forum have any Dick Kantner rods? I doubt it. Extremely rare. I am not about to abuse my rods. Now reels do get a little bumped and banged up but so what? Its a tool. Its replaceable. Not going to worry about it. I am not one of those people who park on the far end of the parking lot to avoid my car being bumped by others.

 

Don't think I abuse my tackle. I surely do not. But I also don't worry about bumps, bangs, scratches that happen. Rods and reels get dropped and accidents happen. But I do take care of my tackle. Just tools to me.

4 minutes ago, FloridaFishinFool said:

Now reels do get a little bumped and banged up but so what? Its a tool. Its replaceable.

I understand that, however, most of the reels I have are hard to find or irreplaceable to some degree.  You can't just go out and buy a new Abu 2500C, hell even finding new old stock parts is a big challenge now. My Daiwas posted above, you can find them, but only in Japan on occasion.  They were made 20 years ago.  Most parts for them don't exist any longer.  If they get a ding or scratch, so what, just part of the game.  Being mindful of what I'm doing with it goes a long way.