58 minutes ago, WRB-2.0 said:

Dobyns Ultra Finesse is now $129 Aliexpress.

Tom

Dang that’s super tempting but I’m really hoping to handle a couple rods first and I feel there will be deals available in the spring after I hopefully handle a few different choices, but I really appreciate your sharing these offers and hope if anyone is interested in these rods will take advantage of these prices.

1 hour ago, Bigbox99 said:

When I still had my 65 UL Volkey BFS I used to fish the 1/16 oz BPS weedless worm hook jig head things with a BPS hellgramite a lot.  I basically kept one tied on that rod that all times.  The hellgramite is a 3 inch bait but it's mostly flat so its pretty light for its length.  If I wanted to do that today I would look at the Majocraft UL bass rods like the Benkei or Days.   I would also cross shop the Shimano UL BFS rods.  The only other advice I can give is to avoid solid tip rods.  The hyper flexible tip will rob you of some hook setting power when trying to drive hooks through plastic and into a fish.  

I appreciate the solid advice you’ve shared especially about the solid tips as I’ve dived deeper into this rabbit hole that is something that’s not shared a lot in my opinion and better served with the ffs craze or at very least short range hooking situations. My best days with my previously mentioned combo were using a 1/8th ounce inline spinner that was hit pretty much within 5 yards of the initial retrieve of a 30-40 yard 🤔 cast as I’ve never measured my casts but I’m definitely looking for a rod that is better suited for these types of situations.

13 hours ago, Bigbox99 said:

The trout rod stuff is super interesting and I'm just starting to get into it.  I'm still trying to figure out stream vs area trout rods.  From what I understand, stream rods are graphite and for mountain stream fishing and area rods are usually glass and softer for fishing managed trout ponds or managed areas hence the name.  I'm just going to go dink slaying in ponds with a glass trout rod next year and then try my hand at stream fishing later.  I don't onow anything about fishing streams and creeks.  I'm not even sure if my nearest stream that is stocked with trout even allows you to get into the water and walk down it or if you have to stay in the public access shore?  This whole thing is new to me but new fishing things are fun.

Area rods will often be made to cast very light lures, some are rated sub 1g at the low end.  They're built for put-and-take managed fishing ponds that are stocked mostly with hatchery rainbows.  Those fish typically are in the 8-12" range.  I see a lot of newcomers to BFS in general chasing the dragon; wanting to cast tiny offerings like Trout Magnets and Euro nymphs and they often gravitate towards area trout rods just because of their minimum weight rating.  The problem is they take them bass fishing and wonder why they're struggling.  It's because the area rods don't have the backbone of a stream rod and it takes skill to cast such light lures.  For 99% of finesse fishermen, lures of such a small weight aren't even on the radar.  Most of those guys do it for bragging rights and nothing more.  

 

Native trout rods on the other hand come in 3 flavors.  First are mountain stream rods which are short since the water is skinny.  Here in the states the mountain stream rods are right at home on the brush choked headwater creeks that feed larger river systems.  They usually come in fiberglass, graphite, or composite blanks.  The rods are usually rated 2g+ and meant for sinking minnows.  Fiberglass and low modulus graphite are often the preferred choices for keeping fish pinned and the ability to quickly load the rod tip in a confined space.  Trout fight differently from bass and are very good with throwing the hook, so something that keeps the heat on during the fight ensures the hook stays put. They will often be in the 4'6"-5'6" range and come in powers from UL to L+.  Speaking of L+, it's a middle ground between a L and ML.  My Palms Egeria 53L+ is rated for 3-18g and 4-10lb line, great for busting big fish in the bush, and also a killer rod for river smallmouth.

 

 

Next are what are known as mainstream rods.  These are meant for moderate sized rivers and almost all are graphite, usually low modulus with minimum resin on the blank to provide flex, durability, and light weight.  Mainstream rods are usually in the 6'-7'6" range and meant for spoons and minnows of 3g+.  Larger fish are found in those waters and the rods have the backbone for 20"+ fish.  They're also light enough to cast one handed so they can be just as accurate as their shorter mountain stream cousins.  Their length also lets one cast far upstream and work the deeper pools on the retrieve.  These are probably the most ideal for a newcomer to trout since they can also be very effective in all but the skinniest of creeks.  Remember, trout are predators and the tiniest lures aren't required.  I've fished side by side with guys stripping dries and caught more and larger fish on 5g minnows.  These are your Swiss Army Knife rods.

 

Last, we have main basin rods, made for large rivers and the lakes they flow into.  Here in the states, think of something like the Ohio River or other large flowing river.  Those are often 8'-11'+ and used for lures 7g+.  They have long handles to facilitate the landing of larger 30"+ fish and designed to be cast with two hands.  Some can be rated up to 2 oz or more on the top end.  In the USA, these would be great rods for late summer Chinook or late fall lake trout.  BFS reels are out of the realm of these rods since the target species are more inclined to hit much larger baits.  Most of your Lamiglas, Loomis, North fork, etc USM salmon and steelhead rods would be in this category if they were available in Japan.  

 

 

On 12/6/2025 at 9:53 AM, Bigbox99 said:

  Shimano, who I think gained some legal ownership of the acronym, are the only ones putting it one their rods and reels to my knowledge.  
 

 

JDM Fenwick puts Bait Finesse Special on their BFS rods and I own a Legit Design'Wild Side' BFS rod that actually has a graphic on it that says Bait Finesse.

  Abu Garcia   

11 hours ago, John B. said:

 

JDM Fenwick puts Bait Finesse Special on their BFS rods and I own a Legit Design'Wild Side' BFS rod that actually has a graphic on it that says Bait Finesse.

I own some that say BF or Bait Finesse as well but Bait Finesse Systen seems to be a Shimano Japan owned term now.  Even modern Majorcraft rods are shying away from putting BFS on the blank and they were big on putting a big BFS logo on their BFS models of the Corzza, Volkey and Speedstyle rods.  I started noticing this happening right some time after the 1st gen Aldebaran BFS came out and the only Japanese rods with BFS written on them now are Shimano.  This leads be to believe Shimano has some legal ownership of the term or is acting like they do and other Japanese brands are shying away from it.  US rod brands don't seem to care.

BFS on a rod is a misnomer - BF on a rod is correct.  

BFS is the reel - combination of shallow lightweight spool, low-inertia spool bearings, and threadline.  

 

5 hours ago, Bigbox99 said:

I own some that say BF or Bait Finesse as well but Bait Finesse Systen seems to be a Shimano Japan owned term now.  Even modern Majorcraft rods are shying away from putting BFS on the blank and they were big on putting a big BFS logo on their BFS models of the Corzza, Volkey and Speedstyle rods.  I started noticing this happening right some time after the 1st gen Aldebaran BFS came out and the only Japanese rods with BFS written on them now are Shimano.  This leads be to believe Shimano has some legal ownership of the term or is acting like they do and other Japanese brands are shying away from it.  US rod brands don't seem to care.

My Legit DesignWild Side' BFS rod that says BFS is a JDM Brand and the rod itself is a JDM Model.

4 hours ago, bulldog1935 said:

BFS on a rod is a misnomer - BF on a rod is correct.  

BFS is the reel - combination of shallow lightweight spool, low-inertia spool bearings, and threadline.  

 

I've always thought they went well together whether the reel itself is called a BFS reel and and people have been calling BFS rods BFS rods for definitely over a decade. The term being incorrect when used on a rod is news to me. As far as low inertia bearings are concerned, give me a set of the ZR stainless steel bearings that Hedgehog sells along with some 7 or 8 pound Sniper FC and I'm good to go.

1 hour ago, John B. said:

My Legit DesignWild Side' BFS rod that says BFS is a JDM Brand and the rod itself is a JDM Model.

It's either all in my head or the Special in Bait Finesse Special is their way to skirt around Shimano.

2 hours ago, John B. said:

I've always thought they went well together whether the reel itself is called a BFS reel and and people have been calling BFS rods BFS rods for definitely over a decade. The term being incorrect when used on a rod is news to me. As far as low inertia bearings are concerned, give me a set of the ZR stainless steel bearings that Hedgehog sells along with some 7 or 8 pound Sniper FC and I'm good to go.

I'll add that there is absolutely nothing wrong at all with the stainless steel bearings that come with the Shimano Aldebaran BFS reels and as far as I know, all of the other higher end Shimano reels. The sound better than any ceramic bearing and a lot quieter and the performance is with lower end lure weights is astounding. 

@John B. - I'm happy for you.  

Where I fish salt tide passes, distance is everything, doubling your fish chances by fishing both far and near channel slopes.  Wind and tide currents combine to stack glass-minnows into bait balls.  Snook and redfish are picky about individual bait size, while seatrout will take a larger flashy lure for slashing into bait ball.  

Jun Sonada reports 3 to 6% cast distance improvement is possible by upgrading bearings.  

When I measured different bearings on casting range, everything else constant, I got 15% difference between Daiwa shielded bearings and the best microbearings, Roro and KTF/IXA double-row.  Number - casting 2-g JH past 130', and routinely fishing this distance with 3-g micro-plug.  

 

Since then, the best spool bearings I've found, especially for salt-impervium and extreme light distance without giving up load range, are full-silicon-nitride, which are infinitely light, slick, and run dry.   They also run quiet, just the slightest purr, which has made me a junkie.  Any ceramic bearing doesn't apply.  

 

My 2500C mini-surf was casting 1/4-oz plug to 200' last April - probably more impressive, PureLure Seabed 7'8' Baitfinesse was hooking fish 180' away (measured on GoogleEarth).   

 

1 hour ago, John B. said:

I'll add that there is absolutely nothing wrong at all with the stainless steel bearings that come with the Shimano Aldebaran BFS reels and as far as I know, all of the other higher end Shimano reels. The sound better than any ceramic bearing and a lot quieter and the performance is with lower end lure weights is astounding. 

Everybody is using NMB these days.  My Calcutta Conquest SE has them, Millionaires of mine came with them, newer production Ambassadeurs I've gone through had them as well.  They're rated P0, the Japan equivalent to ABEC 1.  They come with a light grease as this is how NMB ships them to manufacturing partners.  These are from a Tranx 200 I just did the other day, the Curado 200HG I did afterwards was the same. 

 

 

A good cleaning in denatured alcohol followed by a shot of TSI 301 and excess blown out and they fly.  The shields really need to be removed to get the grease out.  If they're left in place, much of it will remain left behind and rotation isn't going to be as good.  

If the physics didn't matter for light-lure distance, double-row bearings wouldn't work.  

As it is, casting light weights, only the inner race and ball-row turn with the spindle.  

It works this way because starting the small inner ball row takes less energy than starting the larger outer ball row.  

Casting heavy weights or with big drive loads, both inner and middle race, and both rows of balls turn.  (also giving this bearing design essentially unlimited load range).  

Any unshielded (air) bearings require more maintenance - a drop of oil about every month of use - or in the case of salt, a drop before and after every trip.  

 

Hedgehog also does a really good job bracketing useful load ranges on all their spool bearings.  They make this empirical vs. hyperbole.  

Bringing this up, Air HD is the best bearing Hedgehog sells, but it starts at 3 g. 

To fish 1/16 oz, should use Air BFS.  

27 minutes ago, redmeansdistortion said:

Everybody is using NMB these days.  My Calcutta Conquest SE has them, Millionaires of mine came with them, newer production Ambassadeurs I've gone through had them as well.  They're rated P0, the Japan equivalent to ABEC 1.  They come with a light grease as this is how NMB ships them to manufacturing partners.  These are from a Tranx 200 I just did the other day, the Curado 200HG I did afterwards was the same. 

 

 

A good cleaning in denatured alcohol followed by a shot of TSI 301 and excess blown out and they fly.  The shields really need to be removed to get the grease out.  If they're left in place, much of it will remain left behind and rotation isn't going to be as good.  

I think the last two Shimano reels that I have bought were a 22 Aldebaran BFS XG and a Aldebaran MGL 30. I also have an 18 Bantam and I haven't even checked to see what kind of bearings it has because I've hardly ever used it so no need for maintenance so far. If they came with anything other than stainless steel then that would be news to me because I've always assumed that Shimano used high-quality stainless steel bearings on their higher end reels. I think the last ceramic bearings that I've used was somewhere around 2015 and I've always hated the noise of ceramics but if there's something new and improved out there, then maybe I should give them a try.

9 minutes ago, John B. said:

I think the last two Shimano reels that I have bought were a 22 Aldebaran BFS XG and a Aldebaran MGL 30. I also have an 18 Bantam and I haven't even checked to see what kind of bearings it has because I've hardly ever used it so no need for maintenance so far. If they came with anything other than stainless steel then that would be news to me because I've always assumed that Shimano used high-quality stainless steel bearings on their higher end reels. I think the last ceramic bearings that I've used was somewhere around 2015 and I've always hated the noise of ceramics but if there's something new and improved out there, then maybe I should give them a try.

Isuzu also uses NMB bearings.  They're the largest bearing manufacturer in the world so their products are cheap just because of their volume.  I pay $1 and some change for each one buying in bulk from Japan.  I'm sure the reel manufacturers get them cheaper since they're buying thousands at a time.  I run them even in my bench tuned Ambassadeurs, my 2500Cs cast lighter stuff better.  I'm getting better distance with NMB DDL-1150ZZY04 than I am with Hedgehog Air 1150s.  I'm not sure who OEMs Hedgehog's bearings as they aren't very up front about that or the mystery magic oil they sell.  I asked them for test data on it once and they told me it's a secret recipe.  I replied back that I wasn't looking for composition, but test data and they fessed up that they had none.  Bummer.  I use hard data as part of my selection process.  

My greatest-distance reel, by far, bench 5500CT

 

uses these hybrid ceramic bearings - full-size 1040.  I did set the mag brake casting 1/8-oz loaded jighead.  Should be tuning reels to match rod range and your intended use.  

But it's not capable of casting 2 or 3 g to any useful distance.  This ability is in the physics of the spool + bearings.  Also, C3/Ultracast bearing configuration doesn't gain anything from microbearings, because the inner race is fixed, and outer race spins with the spool.  

Essentially the same set-up, 4500CT, but narrow spool and SiN 1040, this is a 3-g micro-jig combo.  

 

Don't remember if 1150 Air BFS microbearings in my 1500C are Hedgehog or Roro, but this reel fishes 1.5 g, and casts 3 g much farther than you need to fish any creek. 

I use Hedgehog Alchemy Oil for lube chores, but hybrid ceramic bearings get ZPI F-0 Pro Extra Long Cast.  Might be worth noting excess oil drags down microbearings.  

The yeya B51 I have this same reel does your brakes move when casting ? 

On 12/11/2025 at 7:03 PM, bulldog1935 said:

Might be worth noting excess oil drags down microbearings.

I blow out all excess with compressed air with all of my reels.  I'm using TSI 301, great stuff.  It's rated 5 cst at 40°C, thin film lube that bonds to the balls, cages, and raceways and fills in any microscopic porous surfaces.  It's used to lubricate hard drive platters in space bound instruments.  I like that it has readily available technical data and that I don't have to take the word of a reseller, especially one who refuses to disclose or can't obtain the information for the product they are peddling.  That puts it in the realm of Himalayan pinks salts and essential oils.

I've been pretty transparent, even empirical, about casting weights and measured distance.  When something gives instant results, I recognize that, too.  Both MTCW and ZPI Racing made their mark in motorcycle racing - fishing is a sideline - another is Livre.  Both sell top-line bearings, both sell fop-line lubes.  

By far, the fastest LP reel I own is ZPI Alcance with magnesium spool, titanium spindle, and their mag-cam tuning.  But this is a thread about round BFS.  

There are other ways to measure bench results, too, like reaching fish that were comfortably far away from your tiny bait.