You aren't really in the middle. You think the earth is warming and you think we should reduce emissions to reduce our effect on the warming. That's pretty much a global warmist to a T.

I don't think there is anything we can do to make China and India reduce emissions. Developing nations use more energy and emit more pollution, it's as simple as that. To ask them to stop developing would be unrealistic. Also, development almost always leads to more stability, better human rights, and decreased poverty so hindering development anywhere really isn't a great thing for people in general. We can't limit human rights and decreased poverty because the earth warmed less than a degree centigrade in a century.

And I do know both sides of the argument, and no, I don't want to do anything because I don't think there is anything to do but let the earth do what is has been doing for ages--that is, exhibit a cyclical pattern of heating and cooling; anything else is unnecessary.

Fishing Phil, I have been reading some of your comments, and I really can't side with you on this issue.

From what I understand, you think that we should just do something about global warming in case it could cause global castrophe down the road, and if we turn out to be wrong then it's ok because we have a cleaner planet. Also, the reason why we aren't taking action is because of the money it would cost us.

You seem like a very liberal guy, and this is the argument made by alot of democrats even Al Gore. I am also liberal, but do share some conservative views. So don't take this as some kind of liberal bashing.

You can NEVER make an economic decision without knowing the facts. Bottom line. If we were to incorporate the changes it would require to attempt to cut CO2 emissions from the environment, then the economic effects would be severe. Think of all of the businesses that we would shut down, then the people that would be out of work, and the families that would become poor. So taking action will have a huge effect.

Besides, it is impossible to change the balance of the CO2 in the air.  Man only produces .28% of the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, not even a percent, not even half of a percent.  The ocean is the hemoglobin of our planet.  It balances the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere.  If there is not enough, it boils it out.  If there is too much, it absorbs it.  Henry's Law.  

- Even if all signatories meet greenhouse gas emission targets, the effect on global temperature would be insignificant.

- Fast growing, non-developed countries, such as China, India, South Korea and Indonesia, are exempt from emission reductions.

According to the International Energy Agency, as much as 85 percent of the projected increase in CO2 emissions over the next 20 years will be produced in exempt countries.

-Signatory countries, such as Canada and Japan, are not likely to meet Kyoto's emission cuts, and the European Union is on a path to exceed its commitments.

The Bush Administration has been severely criticized for not signing the treaty even though economic forecasts show that compliance would hurt the U.S. economy. During the Clinton Administration the Energy Information Administration, the official forecasting arm of the Department of Energy, issued a report predicting that meeting Kyoto greenhouse gas limits would:

- Increase gasoline prices by 52 percent and electricity prices by 86 percent.

- Decrease gross domestic product (GDP) by 4.2 percent and reduce disposable income by 2.5 percent.

Fishing Phil, instead of taking Al Gore's word on it, or mine, or anyone elses, I believe that you owe it to yourself to research the science behind global warming yourself and then come to your own conclusion. Al Gore's movie is a very persuasive piece of propaganda for those who do not know the science behind global warming. I know it is hard for democrats to take a hard look at global warming because it seems so important to protect the Earth.

One of the things that liberal people do well when it comes to arguments made against the Bush Administration and conservative politics is they do their homework. But liberal people are being duped by this myth so badly, that they don't even check the facts before committing. How could Al Gore lie? How could some democrats have an agenda? Trust me, the only way you will ever find truth in this world is question everything you are told!

Bush Administration is nothing but snakes, same can easily be said about the Clinton Administration including Gore.

******EVERYONE READ THIS***********Before you comment on global warming, take 2 hours and watch this movie. This is the best presentation on the internet of the science behind global warming.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHjczyA75jU

After watching it, watch Al Gore's movie. Then make a decision and get back to me.

I could give a rats aZZ either way but why would you go to a college yahoo with his own little web site to prove your point, This guy dosent even have any scientific degrees or any documentation he knows what hes doing I believe him as much as I believe some NFL football player coming up with a plan to feed the starving  Man thats not right!!!!!

This is the biggest bunch of propaganda ever perpetrated on the American population

Man breaths in oxygen and breaths out CO2

Plants breaths in CO2 and breaths out Oxygen

Dang aint God smart  

Not to mention that the earth has warmed and cooled off on its own since its been a planet. The thing that may be altered here, and I am not an expert nor do I listen to all this doomsday stuff, it may be a more severe shift. WHO CARES AN ICE AGE IS AN ICE AGE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lets see in 2000 all our computers were going to go nuts,in the 70's there was the oil shortage beccause the oil companies couildnt figure out where to hide the oil to get the price increase, the 80's had several viruses that were going to wipe us out WHAT NEXt> You know Im gonna spend time with the old lady, cherish my kid and go fishing with a freind on a daily basis I dont need anymore media stirred paranoia in my life 8-)

Not to mention that the earth has warmed and cooled off on its own since its been a planet. The thing that may be altered here, and I am not an expert nor do I listen to all this  doomsday stuff, it may be a more severe shift. WHO CARES AN ICE AGE IS AN ICE AGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Lets see in 2000 all our computers were going to go nuts,in the 70's there was the oil shortage beccause the oil companies couildnt figure out where to hide the oil to get the price increase, the 80's had several viruses that were going to wipe us out WHAT NEXt> You know Im gonna spend time with the old lady, cherish my kid and go fishing with a freind on a daily basis I dont need anymore media stirred paranoia in my life 8-)

Let me add some items to that list.

In the 1800's the big cities all had a problem with hourse manure. They would have hand plows to clear the streets, but they didn't know what do with it all. They said by the year 2000 the intire east coast would be under 6ft of horse manure.

In the 50's everyone was going crazy over global cooling.

What next?

I agree with muddyman. Where was all the man made stuff when the last ice age melted?

Re: Global Warming And Effect On Fishing

Whether man induced or natural is not the point. The point is the subject, so......

Down here in central Texas, where I have lived all my life of 48 years, I used to fish bedders in Feb through April. Now, its Dec through March.

Likely culprit? Water temp. What controls water temp?

My fishing logs have seen a significant shift within the last 10 years.

Any other possible explanations?

Hookem'  

Where are you fishing?  I'm also in Central Texas and the earliest I've seen bedders has been January and that was in a power plant lake...  which obviously doesn't count in this discussion.  Just curious since I haven't noticed a shift like you describe in any of the lakes I fish.

******EVERYONE READ THIS***********Before you comment on global warming, take 2 hours and watch this movie.

You join a bassfishing forum, don't post a thing about bass fishing, and after 4 whole posts start giving emphatic commands &6%4##@

READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TROLL

Shut up and go fishing.

I could give a rats aZZ either way but why would you go to a college yahoo with his own little web site to prove your point, This guy dosent even have any scientific degrees or any documentation he knows what hes doing I believe him as much as I believe some NFL football player coming up with a plan to feed the starving  Man thats not right!!!!!

I thought the same thing muddy, but if you download the presentation he's talking about, it has citations for every assertion it makes.

I LOOKED AT THE FIRST TWO nUMBER ONE he doesnt have the credentials or expertise himself(at least not where i could find him. not on his site either) and the cited studies like all are debatable and you can use one sentance out of a study and go off on a whole non prove-able tangent on it!

******EVERYONE READ THIS***********Before you comment on global warming, take 2 hours and watch this movie.

You join a bassfishing forum, don't post a thing about bass fishing, and after 4 whole posts start giving emphatic commands &6%4##@

READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TROLL

Shut up and go fishing.

;D ;D ;D

You are all missing the point. The northern hemisphere is warming BUT IT IS NOT BECAUSE OF CO2!!! It is WATER VAPOR AND THE SUN.

CO2 is dispersed evenly throughout the atmosphere, but only certain of the layers of the atmosphere show warming, and those layers are potent with water vapor. H20 is the most significant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, over 300 times more potent than CO2. H20 makes up roughly 95% of the atmosphere, CO2 makes up roughly 5%, and the rest are trace gases. Of that 5% of CO2, man only produces 5%. Man only produces .28% of the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. Because it is such an insignificant amount, this warming trend is NOT MANMADE.

Why doesn't Al Gore's movie even once mention H20? How come the IPCC doesn't touch on it much? You can't have a serious global warming debate without the mention of the most significant greenhouse gas. This is intentional. Why don't they want you to know about this? Because their claim is fraudulent.

Other planets such as Mars and Jupiter are showing signs of warming too. What is the common denominator? The sun. The sun is burning hotter than it ever has.

I admit, the northern hemisphere is going through a warming trend, but the southern is cooling. Why are the so-called experts just blaming CO2, without the mention of the most potent greenhouse gas? You can't just pick a reason and cherry pick certain facts in attempt to justify a claim. That isn't science.

The IPCC, Greenpeace, etc can tell you how many parts per billion CO2, methane, nitrous oxide, and chloroflourocarbons are, but they have yet to determine H20's role.  Give me a break.  At least they do admit it is the most abundent greenhouse gas.  They are suppressing information for a reason.  They have an agenda.  This is just like nazi-pseudo science.

Although there is allot of good information and opinions here. I think all that needs to be said has been. So I am locking this thread. But before I do. I am going to exercise the advantage I have of getting the last word.  ;D

Before all this stuff about Al Gore being the voice of global warming he was just another unemployed politician looking for a job to pay his bills. And I have yet to meet a honest politician.

Now GO FISHING!!! Then come back and tell us about all the great bass you have cought.

Fluke