Talked to a guy at work that will have to be put on it, and I really haven't thought of this stuff much on how your forced to take it. Well I never put myself in that situation where it could lead me down the road to it either.

I was thinking what would I do if it was me being forced to take it, it kinda ticked me off because, I tried to think of any other drug people are forced to take by court order and came up nothen yet??

Granted I know why and what took them to this point to be told by court you gotta take it, but its still a troubling situation. Best thing to do is avoid putting yourself at risk and the courts telling ya to take it.

This stuff has some history health issues too.

Is there many states that don't force you to take antabuse?

I agree that this is troubling.

If you commit a crime, then you go to jail.

If you are a repeat felon then you go to jail and die there.

Altering behavior through forced drugging sounds creepy.

The libertarian in me, gets riled over stuff like this.

I thought they didn't do that anymore because some people had side effects like seizures or something. I can't imagine a court would actually order someone to take antabuse to quit drinking. I thought most of them would just lock a repeat drunk offender up until he could clean up for a while and maybe require substance abuse classes. Courts don't generally care if you were drunk when you committed a crime, as individuals are still responsible for what they do while drunk. That is unless the crime committed was contingent on the involvement of alcohol like a DUI or DIP

I agree that this is troubling.

If you commit a crime, then you go to jail.

If you are a repeat felon then you go to jail and die there.

Altering behavior through forced drugging sounds creepy.

The libertarian in me, gets riled over stuff like this.

They do this to kids nowdays,they are really getting them ready for the real world and adult drugs. The whole country will be zombies in 20 yrs

I agree that this is troubling.

If you commit a crime, then you go to jail.

If you are a repeat felon then you go to jail and die there.

Altering behavior through forced drugging sounds creepy.

The libertarian in me, gets riled over stuff like this.

They do this to kids nowdays,they are really getting them ready for the real world and adult drugs. The whole country will be zombies in 20 yrs

I have to ask. Who are "they"?

I would agree if the drug didn't have a history of giving people seizures, heartaches, or a bad case of death.

That was available in the Navy.    If memory serves me correct, it was always an option.   An option, the other being if you refused to take that route, the Capt. had the option of restricting you to the ship for awhile and or sending you to rehab.  Normally, it was because you screwed up in the first place.

    By agreeing to take antabuse, you showed up at sickcall that morning and took your medicine.   Everyday.

    Have never heard of any side effects other than doing what its supposed to do.    Make you sick if ya drink.

    I also know of some friends that just realized they had a drinking problem and volunteered to take the pill.

DOCTORS HAVE MADE A SERIOUS MISTAKE TREATING ADDICTION WITH DRUGS.

Look there is a fire, throw a match on it, that will help

I can tell you from being in recovery for 17 years now, that drugs do not help addiction

Give a dope fiend Methadone, you are just helping him stay high, You just get to know where he is every day.

I stopped using, A DAY AT A TIME, BY NOT USING AND MAKING MEETINGS. It's not rocket science

I refused to take medication and I got to live a total drug free life

Hey Brent; I guess that we could say this about cigarettes and all the marijuana driven accidents ( by some estimates , causes as many fatal accidents as alcohol) , oh thats right these drugs are accepted by society.

It does not work, I sit in meeting after meeting, of the 12 step program , and I can tell you one of the major causes of relapse: PAIN AND DEPRESSION MEDS

I agree that this is troubling.

If you commit a crime, then you go to jail.

If you are a repeat felon then you go to jail and die there.

Altering behavior through forced drugging sounds creepy.

The libertarian in me, gets riled over stuff like this.

They do this to kids nowdays,they are really getting them ready for the real world and adult drugs. The whole country will be zombies in 20 yrs

I have to ask. Who are "they"?

docs and teachers ,,you didnt know??? Nowdays if a girl is prego and under age the teachers dont have to tell parents and encourage any means even abortion i know thsi was off topic but still a good example of instead of fighting problems the system or w-e is in charge would rather drug them ,muddy is right

Some pretty vague, blanket statements you have there, Maxx. Could your stats be in less than one percent of incidents? Or more than 90 percent?

(i foresee an 'i don't know' in your reply) 8-)

b

This happens to 90% of pregant girls in high school or

middle school but prob only 2% get prego per school <i been in the school system 15 yrs. You get to know how they do things by word of mouth and personaly when it comes to meds/bein pregnant and the like

It is my opinion that drugs do not "cure" the disease.  However, prescriptions in conjunction with active counseling is important...provided the individual is invested in the treatment program.

Often times, the courts are behind the times.

Our court system has an alcohol monitoring bracelet at its disposal.  So far we have had success when people are on the bracelet.  By success, I mean not drinking.

Life after the bracelet can be a different story, however.

i been in the school system 15 yrs.

For the record, Maxx is finaly going into the 3rd grade this fall.

What the hell is antabuse?  I thought someone was molesting ants.

Muddy, I mean this purely as a question that I think you could best answer.

I understand and agree with the point you made about methadone being used to treat addicts.

But is using antabuse really analogous to that treatment? I'm pretty sure that on it's own, antabuse doesn't have any effects on the patient. It doesn't give the user any of the same positive effects as the drug itself. It only goes into effect when the patient also ingests alcohol. In that regard, it is more like a negative reinforcement than lowering a dosage. It isn't trying to eliminate the addiction by giving the addict decreasing amounts of the drug, it is trying to get the addict to stay away from the drug completely in fear of getting violently ill.

Or do you think there still needs to be a mental and internal desire to be clean instead of a fear of physical pain?

Muddy, when jail doesn't work, what options, as a society, do we have left?

It's not jail that doesn't work.

It's letting repeat offenders out of jail that doesn't work.

I agree that this is troubling.

If you commit a crime, then you go to jail.

If you are a repeat felon then you go to jail and die there.

Altering behavior through forced drugging sounds creepy.

The libertarian in me, gets riled over stuff like this.

They do this to kids nowdays,they are really getting them ready for the real world and adult drugs. The whole country will be zombies in 20 yrs

I have to ask. Who are "they"?

docs and teachers ,,you didnt know??? Nowdays if a girl is prego and under age the teachers dont have to tell parents and encourage any means even abortion i know thsi was off topic but still a good example of instead of fighting problems the system or w-e is in charge would rather drug them ,muddy is right

I'm not sure how pregnancy is related to "getting them ready for the real world and adult drugs." But anyway, last time I checked doctors and teachers can't treat kids without the parents' permission.

I agree that this is troubling.

If you commit a crime, then you go to jail.

If you are a repeat felon then you go to jail and die there.

Altering behavior through forced drugging sounds creepy.

The libertarian in me, gets riled over stuff like this.

They do this to kids nowdays,they are really getting them ready for the real world and adult drugs. The whole country will be zombies in 20 yrs

I have to ask. Who are "they"?

And where?

DOCTORS HAVE MADE A SERIOUS MISTAKE TREATING ADDICTION WITH DRUGS.

Look there is a fire, throw a match on it, that will help

I can tell you from being in recovery for 17 years now, that drugs do not help addiction

Give a dope fiend Methadone, you are just helping him stay high, You just get to know where he is every day.

I stopped using, A DAY AT A TIME, BY NOT USING AND MAKING MEETINGS. It's not rocket science

I refused to take medication and I got to live a total drug free life

Hey Brent; I guess that we could say this about cigarettes and all the marijuana driven accidents ( by some estimates , causes as many fatal accidents as alcohol) , oh thats right these drugs are accepted by society.

It does not work, I sit in meeting after meeting, of the 12 step program , and I can tell you one of the major causes of relapse: PAIN AND DEPRESSION MEDS

Congrats Mook! Couldn't have been easy. I know this doesn't compare, but when I quit smoking 100 years ago, I quit cold turkey and at first it was hard but now when I smell cigarette smoke I want to puke.

i been in the school system 15 yrs.

For the record, Maxx is finaly going into the 3rd grade this fall.

3rd grade was 4 yrs in a row i finally made it to 4th yay ;D

Obviously, fighting fire with fire is not the answer. Ulitmately, most of these drugs are not to save the abuser, but to save all of us from the abuser. ("honey, lets go to the clinic so you don't have to rob anybody today....." ) AS ugly as it sounds, I can live with this.....

(although i've never heard of cigarettes affecting anyones reaction times, or causing any fatalities; other than the person smoking it).

Muddy, when jail doesn't work, what options, as a society, do we have left?

b

(doing any type of drug or alcohol while operating a vehicle is not 'accepted' in society; although I see the point your are trying to make)

My sponsor has 25 years clean, his 26 his 35 and I have 17. I guess the 12 step program i am in , which has helped hundred's of thousands of addicts might be part of the answer

I go into jails, bringing our message of hope, and I am happy and grateful to say that many show up at meetings when they get out

I point this out with all respect to you, as you have given us incredible support in other ways, so I am just pointing out, that while what we do in the other program ( the Spring Giveaway) goes to these same fellas, and we could not do it without your trust and generosity

Muddy, I mean this purely as a question that I think you could best answer.

I understand and agree with the point you made about methadone being used to treat addicts.

But is using antabuse really analogous to that treatment? I'm pretty sure that on it's own, antabuse doesn't have any effects on the patient. It doesn't give the user any of the same positive effects as the drug itself. It only goes into effect when the patient also ingests alcohol. In that regard, it is more like a negative reinforcement than lowering a dosage. It isn't trying to eliminate the addiction by giving the addict decreasing amounts of the drug, it is trying to get the addict to stay away from the drug completely in fear of getting violently ill.

Or do you think there still needs to be a mental and internal desire to be clean instead of a fear of physical pain?

Good question Dan. I have seen fellas learn how to tolerate Antabuse and drink over it, pain from the esters aside.

Also you can't stay on it forever, and alcoholism, as with any disease is progressive, So when you get off it, without any support or treatment the relapse rate is very high. Good point and question Dan.

When I got clean, the fellas who helped me, some worked in rehabs and such , knew i was a knuckle headed mook so they detoxed me from a long addiction, ending with IV heroin use, COLD TURKEY.

11 days of seizures,no sleep and I was unbelievably sick. That detox helps keep me clean, as I never want to do that again

. More people should do this because it is easy to forget what a hell active addiction can be

What the hell is antabuse? I thought someone was molesting ants.

Antabuse is a drug that is used to make people sick when they drink.   Its a strong detourant.

   

What the hell is antabuse? I thought someone was molesting ants.

Antabuse is a drug that is used to make people sick when they drink. Its a strong detourant.

From the Beety Ford Clinic( I do not endorse this place, just one of many sources)

Antabuse (disulfiram) works by blocking the removal of a toxic substance (acetaldehyde) that occurs in the liver when alcohol is broken down or metabolized. A special enzyme, acetaldehyde dehydrogenase, which rids the liver and bloodstream of this substance is the target of Antabuse. Flushing, a tight feeling in the chest, headache and more or less severe discomfort are experienced by the person who takes a drink after taking Antabuse. The effect of a dose of Antabuse usually lasts from twenty-four to forty-eight hours. This very unpleasant consequence of drinking alcohol while taking Antabuse does not address at all the mental and emotional symptoms at the root of alcoholism. Antabuse is occasionally helpful in getting a person through a severe period of craving experienced early in recovery. However, these benefits have generally not been effective in maintaining long-term sobriety

I ain't gonna put them out, but some have become members here. Two of them spent this Fathers day; fishing with fathers , brothers and sons, You my friend were an important part of that! 8-)