Saw a threads on other boards,one is saltwater. Two well-respected young men that have been really successful as a team and fishing solo in bigger events, won a small tourney in the last month. They had passed probably a 100 in the past. Well, They were not DQed or anything. They just didnt get their check. Both had "odd" responses on the polygraph. They dont care about the money, they are doing everything the can do to clear their names from people's mind as cheaters..Went as far as GBI tests recently.They are only worried about their reputation as i would be.Keep in mind that these guys have the support of their competitors,no one is calling for their heads or anything everyone involved is as shocked as they are.....The other thread I was reading, people mentioned false positives, the condition of the equipment,the questions, the tester, the tester opinion on results, etc.... One guy had even failed one for a job and gotten hired anyway...Anyone have any experience with these? I think they are more of a deterent or cause for confession more than being accurate.

Notice the lengths that have had to be taken to catch these publisized cheaters in the last year or so...

I don't think they will holdup in a court of law. I just made a post on another site about this subject. Bass fishing is my life, I work all week for the weekend.

I have taking a number of polygraph/stress test and have always passed. But

I have always wondered what would happen If you were to fail one. I guess it

would be a disaster for you. I mean you could forget to hookup you kill switch,

or take off to soon in a no wake zone and this could cause you to fail the test.

If I were to fail one I would do the same thing the guys you mention above

are doing, I would have test giving by other people to try and clear my name.

Even if you did clear you name it would just be for your satisfaction. There would

always be someone out there talking about it. I think this is why some of

the tournament directors don't disqualify people, they just dont get the

prizes. :-/

When ther is "big" money on the line in some tournaments, polygraphs can be used to make sure everything is in order and there has been no cheating.

Sometimes the participants are selected at random.

Othertimes, participants are selected at random along with those who are expected of cheating.

The test can produce stress and a false positive is not surprising.

The use of the polygraph is nothing more than a deterrant so those in the tournament will not cheat.

Statistics will show that very few individual bass fishermen cheat in tournaments. But it has happened in the past and it will continue into the future when there is money being paid for the top fishermen.

It is costly to have the tests at a tournament but sometimes the tournament committees want to have the test available to make sure their tournament has been fair and honest.

Now, if we castrate the cheaters that will definately stop all cheating in the future.

I have heard stories of certain cheaters passing polygraphs and being caught later......The guys that were fomer flw star Tony Christian's partners when he was DQed for cheating swear to this day they didnt notice any wrong doing.... Both passed a polygraph, One guy noone pays any attention to,  the other people say he is dirty as can be.....

The tournament trail I worked for gave a polygraph at every Tournament.  The first, second, and one team at random was tested.   Only one that I know failed and he admitted cheating.

The way they worked it was their was six polygrapher scattered over the their area and they used one of that six at every tournament.

A good examiner will give you the test three times. Yes, three times. Firs this gives them a chance to get you settled in and calmed down from the having to be tested.

The second test will include some questions you and he know to be true. Baseline!!

The third test is the for real test this is the test that could be used in court. But many courts refuse to use them, why they are not always accurate.

With my position in the Army I was taught to pass them, but then the enemy would not know the answers to some questions.

If they are trying to clear their name, then something may well be amiss with the examiner or the instruments,

Ozarkie

I do not trust them.  I do not like them.  I will NEVER be subjected to one regarding a criminal proceeding without a court order and then I will do my best to distort the results (i.e. moving around, flexing muscles, irregular breathing, etc.).  I might be persuaded to take one for a job interview or in the case of a contest such as a bass tourney, but I would do so reluctantly and make my feelings known.  Also, I would again try to distort the results if I could do so without being caught.  Did I mention I don't trust them?

                                   I do not trust them.  I do not like them.  I will NEVER be subjected to one regarding a criminal proceeding without a court order and then I will do my best to distort the results (i.e. moving around, flexing muscles, irregular breathing, etc.).  I might be persuaded to take one for a job interview or in the case of a contest such as a bass tourney, but I would do so reluctantly and make my feelings known.  Also, I would again try to distort the results if I could do so without being caught.  Did I mention I don't trust them?                                                          

If it was the trail I worked for you would not collect a check either.  In the diclamer you sign it state you will be subject to a polygraph.

I might be persuaded to take one for a job interview or in the case of a contest such as a bass tourney

see above

Polygraphs test during tournaments are like locks on your front

They keep honest people honest

Cheaters will find a way to cheat

You can be trained to beat a polygraph thats one of the reasons they dont stand in a court of law.

They keep honest people honest

They can also ruin the reputations of innocent people.

I have never been subjected to a polygraph nor do I know anyone personally who has.  I am simply aware of their shortcomings and the havoc they could potentially wreak on an innocent man.  Not only are the instruments inherently inaccurate, the results are subject to interpretation.  Two polygraphists can interpret the same results differently.

I hate cheaters.  I hate liars.  There has to be a better way to deter them than the polygraph.  If there is not a better way, they still shouldn't be used.

Oh yeah, also what Muddy said.  Polygraphs are no guarantee that cheaters will be caught, either.

I hate the use of polygraphs.

They are un-American.

If you doubt that what I say is true then prove it.

I should not have to prove I didn't do anything wrong.

The burden of proof is on the accuser.

Sociopaths have no problem passing lie detector tests.

They have no conscience, so they don't trip any red flags.

The two guys mentioned in the first post are now struggling to clear their names.

Why, because someone saw them cheat?

Nope, because some machine and it's human operator decided they might not be complelety honest, and now their reputations are sullied.

Is this what bass fishing is all about?

A person can learn to control breathing thru lots of different teachings, yoga and such, or prescription medicines.

To say you don't trust a polygraph is the same as not trusting the monitors you see in an ICU at a hospital, or other areas, same equipment, just looks different.  They are nothing more than vital signs monitors.    

They can not be used in a court of law because they can be beat.      To say the equipment is inaccurate is wrong.    They record exactly what your body is doing.      Not to say that one can't be off, but that is why I do periodic checks, or to calibrate them on a normal routine.    

What requirements for calibration is set forth from the state for such devices(polygragphs)?  Don't know.    I did beat a speeding ticket in court for asking about calibration logs for a speed gun used by the Texas State Troopers.     None could be produced to prove to me that its accurate and my cruise control is off by 7 mph.

The use of a polygraph is used to keep the honest guys honest and scare the dishonest ones.

Do you think you can find 200 extra guys to ride in a boat to watch each team?

Do you think running a paper tourney will stop cheaters?  If they stake fish out to take to the scale, whats gonna stop them from the same practices on a paper tourney?

Don't blame the device, only the operator for interpreting the results, after all, the device doen't call anyone dishonest, the operator does that.

That same device has probably help save a loved one at some time in your life, and its the doctor or nurse reading the info making the call.

You might ask a polygrapher when was the device calibrated for accuracy.     A device that could ruin ones name should have standards set forth.     Periodic testing should be maintained.      I have a individual file for every piece of medical equipment I maintain.     If I change a battery, lamp, or do a corrective repair, it gets docuemented and goes into the file on every device.   I have a simulator that is calibrated off site by a company that has no affilation to the hospital, this is my checks and balance to ensure my test equipment is accurate so I can maintain hospital equipment accurately.

My worries with taking a polygraph is what training or how long has the operator been doing polygraphs.    

Remember that if your heart rate jumped from 65 beats on being asked your name and then 85 beats on being asked if you caught all fish during tourney hours, its not the equipment saying anything, its the human operator making an "hopefully educated analysis".

Matt

I have taken a couple of these and this is what I have learned. To help them get a base line and a feel for who a person is they ask questions like "Have you ever lied or mislead anyone in the past 15 years for profiet or gain" (A used car salesman would have trouble here) and "Have you ever lied to anyone who has trusted or loved you" and another example is "Have you ever lied or cheated in a fishing tournament for the purpose of winning" or "Have you ever lied to anyone to avoid or get out of serious trouble" The examiner will ask these questions first before he even hooks you up. 99.99999999% of everyone I know will have to answer yes to at least one of the above questions. The Key is to tell the truth. Then he will modify the question, "Except for what you have already told me Have you ever.............) Now you can answer without trying to hide anything. Another flaw is if you dont know you have violated a rule then you dont know you are lying about the question. I have seen anglers violate the rules and not know it and pass the lie detectors test. That is why they also have a written protest. the last thing I know about it is there is a differance between cheating and a rule violation. If I become Disqualified because I forgot to hookup my kill switch just one time during the day that is certinly not cheating.

Here is a situation. You are fishing a tournament for 10,000.00 first place. You Win and now you take your turn in the hot seat. During the day through you got ready to move to your next spot and you zip up, buckle up, start the motor, put it in gear. You look over at your partner and he doesnt have on his life vest. You immediatly shut down and let him get his stuff on and ready but its too late. You have just violated a rule to cause yourself to become disqualified. Do you throw 10K away and tell on yourself, try to pass the lie detectors test, what would you do?

I would admit it before ever being in that spot.    If you do place for money, and are not polygraphed during this tourney, the next time you are faced with the "TEST" and the question is asked, have you ever violated any rules in a tournament, the answer would have to be yes, and thats what makes you look "Dishonest"!!!!!

Honest mistakes are just that, mistakes, Hiding fish is cheating.    

You should always fish like you are in a tourney, its called practice, practice, practice.      

Bad habits are formed by casually fishing every day.    Like never wearing your life vest while pre-fishing, then forgeting to button up on tourney day is not anybodies fault but your own, and should not be overlooked, because most of the other guys followed the rules.           Club tourneys should have talked about this up front as to what the ruling should be.  Less money on the line and fellowships are meant to be just that, a relaxing outlet from the big money tourneys.

Hookem

Matt