First I will say that I didn't take the time to read this long thread, just the original post.

Bill Siemantel's system is to target the total water column and not just using big swimbaits. Bill Murphy's techniques are very similar, however Murphy was far more detailed in his approach. Murphy studied the basses behavior and learned everything he could about the prey the bass preferred during different seasonal periods and where the bass located during different seasonal periods.

When you know where the bass are located and what they are targeting for prey, then you can select a presentation that works for your style of fishing.

Copying either of the Bill's presentations without knowing about where or when to apply those techniques may not help you catch bass.

There isn't any panaceas in big bass fishing. You must put in your time on the water and learning the habits of the bass where you fish.

Read books and take away the information that works for you and leave behind what doesn't.

Both Murphy and Siemantel are deep water structure lake fisherman and Doug Hannon is more of a natural lake and shallow water fisherman. It's been my experience that Hannon's presentations may have little application in deep water structured lakes, however Doug's knowledge of bass behavior is well worth reading.

I can tell you how and what I prefer to use to catch giant bass; hair jigs with custom pork trailers, big plastic worms and swimbaits; proven big bass lures that have worked for me.

WRB

First I will say that I didn't take the time to read this long thread, just the original post.

Bill Siemantel's system is to target the total water column and not just using big swimbaits. Bill Murphy's techniques are very similar, however Murphy was far more detailed in his approach. Murphy studied the basses behavior and learned everything he could about the prey the bass preferred during different seasonal periods and where the bass located during different seasonal periods.

When you know where the bass are located and what they are targeting for prey, then you can select a presentation that works for your style of fishing.

Copying either of the Bill's presentations without knowing about where or when to apply those techniques may not help you catch bass.

There isn't any panaceas in big bass fishing. You must put in your time on the water and learning the habits of the bass where you fish.

Read books and take away the information that works for you and leave behind what doesn't.

Both Murphy and Siemantel are deep water structure lake fisherman and Doug Hannon is more of a natural lake and shallow water fisherman. It's been my experience that Hannon's presentations may have little application in deep water structured lakes, however Doug's knowledge of bass behavior is well worth reading.

I can tell you how and what I prefer to use to catch giant bass; hair jigs with custom pork trailers, big plastic worms and swimbaits; proven big bass lures that have worked for me.

WRB

Yes, as Siemantel says - the bait we choose is simply a tool - any tool can be used - the concept of probing the entire water column makes since to me.  I have only read BBZ and have never met Bill Siemantel, but after reading his book - I would not call him a "deep structure guy" - In his book he said he catches some large majority of his fish (I think he said 90%) in 10 feet of water or less - from what I have read and watched his DVD he really does cover the entire water column from deep the shallow and catches on simply whatever works.

I think at least at this point I am drawn to BBZ's philosophy so far - which seems to not necessarily forget all the small details (clutter?) that many anglers find themselves trying to figure out (in vein?) - weather, water temp, seasonal movements of bass, etc...Not to say these are not important I am sure......

I absolutely agree - if you all thought I was wanting to tie on a swimbait and just find fish, I am really not that dumb (not that dumb anyway  ) - there is no magic bullet indeed I believe - but after reading BBZ and watching the video - talking to folks on both BR and BBZ's forum - I found there are a great number of folks that use the BBZ principals (at least in part of their overall philosophy and personal experience and techniques) to great success.

If one man can do it, so can I - If 100 can do it, than so can I.  I definately will use at some point big ol worms - I already use 10 inchers and have caught 3-5 lbers on em from time to time - I have been using the BBZ principles in the past 8 months or so with my "standard" lures I typically use with good success - I am just gonna start hunting the big uns more exclusively now

It will take hard work, time on the water, evaluation and re-evaluation of what I am doing - learning my waters intimately and fishing them thoroughly - thats fishing I guess - and by the way, I will have fun doing it. 

Thanks for the advice - Ill keep you posted.

Good thread. Two of my favorite swimbait makers have been on here.

I like in Kentucky and have been fishing swimbaits for a couple years now and have been going with the bigbaits more and more.

I am no swimbait expert but I noticed a few things that may help you. And many may disagree but this is just from what I have seen in my experiance.

First off I think most people are way off in relating swimbait size to bass size. Baits will catch bigger fish and smaller fish than you expect at times but certain baits excel at catching certain sizes of bass. Obviously baits vary bluegill baits are bigger profile than their lenght suggests and long thin baits are smaller than their profile suggests. But generally speaking for me 4in baits are numbers baits and will get hit by the smallest of bass not that they wont catch big fish sometimes but they catch more small fish. Examples are 4in trutungsten and giron. 5in baits are keeper sized bass baits, most people think these are big fish baits but to me they really target fish in the 14-18in range. If thats the size fish you need in local tournaments then great-examples are king shad, paddletails, magic swimmers, bbz shad, 5in bullshads. 6in baits are good for quality keepers which means fish in the 3lb-6lb range. Again they catch bigger fish and smaller fish but do best on fish in this range. This is also the size of bass it takes well to do good on many BASS tournaments on great fisheries which explains why this the most popular size on the pro level. Examples include-Mattlures hardgill (big for its length), 6in huddlestons, 6in baitsmith, swimming ninjas. Baits in the 7in range are good for really quality keepers fish in the 4lb-8lb range. You see these used more on the big fish lakes like Amistad and Clear Lake in tournaments. 7in ospreys are a good example. 8in+ baits are mostly for trophy fish hunting and you wont see them in many major tournaments unless it is at a great great big fish lake like Amistad or Clear Lake. Not that they wont catch fish anywhere but with baits this big you are fishing for a couple big bites most of the time. This is the minimum size you see most diehard big bait throwing trophy hunters use especially in the west. Not saying big baits dont catch small or vise versa but this will give you a guideline to pick the bait of your choice.

You mentioned knowing when not to throw big baits. For me I want two things going on before I throw big baits. The first is water clarity of 3 ft or more with ideal being 5+. Not that swimbaits wont catch big fish in dirty water but I find most of the time other baits work better. Also I want big fish to fairly active which is alot of the time on some lakes and not so often on others. I know this is vague I know but signs I look for are small fish being caught on spinnerbaits and crankbaits. Usually if I see this I know I have a chance at some quality swimbait bites. If the bite is dead and everybody is throwing jigs and finesse baits then maybe you should put the swimbait down. And knowing your lakes is a big part of it. I fish one superclear lake where the bite is brutal midday unless there is a low light condition. You cant catch 12 keepers on power baits so obviously I dont throw swimbaits unless it is early or late or some kind of condition is happening.

Also fishing in the east coast is different than out west in some ways. Bass arent different but our lakes are. In the east there is alot more quality cover that big fish relate to. Also are forage is different in many cases.

One last thing like matt I also see certain cant miss niches. I have two spots on a small grassy lake I fish where I can almost always get a follow or catch a quality fish (quality for here 18in). I also know banks with big laydowns on another lake that big fish always relate to. When you learn spots like these it will be much easier to put big baits into your routine. With swimbaits it really really pays to know a lake well.