And you do it in a great way. No confusion, good to see ideas coming from all angles. We all fish from different perspectives, the more in the mix the better!

a bait advertised depth means jack until I test them.

   Vast% of the deep baits don't dive as deep as mentioned unless you downsize your line greatly.

A couple of guys tested all lures on the market.   They found 2 that dives as deep as advertised.    

They have charts out on dive depths.

Lets look at commercially available baits on the market.

Nothing discussed so far isn't available to anybody that wants it.

Big M's baits are commercially available.

Whats available to us is what should be discussed.

Is this your own personal thread now? ;D

Balsa wasn't used for max depth, Balsa deflects better off of objects, wood to be exact.

Somebody forgot to tell Rapala......I can get a DT-16 almost 18' deep. I have a couple other balsa cranks that get into the low-mid 20's.  

My old lead-lip Bagley DB3's are awesome deep divers that work into the mid-teens.  

Materials are a means to an end, not a defining factor.  

Deep crank design is an art.......as is deep cranking itself.  

Balsa wasn't used for max depth, Balsa deflects better off of objects, wood to be exact.

Somebody forgot to tell Rapala......I can get a DT-16 almost 18' deep. I have a couple other balsa cranks that get into the low-mid 20's.

I believe Rapala's claim on the DTs is the rapid descent, which I believe has to do with it's nose down starting position, as Big M mentioned, and the sharp edged lip -thus the use of micarta and chip boards.

Not so sure Raul's list is all there is to it.

I'm still wondering about canards -Big M??

Canards?????--some type of French Dessert? ;D

What stores do I buy these M's at.   Walmart, Academy, BassPro?

Never seen them out in town.  

What stores do I buy these M's at. Walmart, Academy, BassPro?

Never seen them out in town.

"Big M" makes them.....a pm is all ya need.  

Canards?????--some type of French Dessert? ;D

Can-nards: The innards of a can.

And they are NOT fancy, readily available: Dinty Moore, Progresso, Campbell's, ...

Seriously...Canards are small wings used (as far as I know) on submarines and jet fighters. I guess they act as stabilizers too, which I suppose is not what you'd want on a crankbait. They would add diving plane area, but probably not allow much wiggle. Unless Big M gets busy and get's creative with 'em. Who knows? A 2" plug that can achieve 30feet on 17# and a 30 foot cast?!

Paul, thanks for the definition of canards.   Not real sure how my name got mixed in with that but I bet somebody has tired to use them on a crankbait.

Matt, no you will not find my baits in any store or on a web site.   So I guess that means I don't know crap about what makes a good crankbait.   Not real sure how this turned into a trash Big M session.

Guess that means it's time for me to go.

Canards?????--some type of French Dessert? ;D

Can-nards: The innards of a can.

And they are NOT fancy, readily available: Dinty Moore, Progresso, Campbell's, ...

Seriously...Canards are small wings used (as far as I know) on submarines and jet fighters. I guess they act as stabilizers too, which I suppose is not what you'd want on a crankbait. They would add diving plane area, but probably not allow much wiggle. Unless Big M gets busy and get's creative with 'em. Who knows? A 2" plug that can achieve 30feet on 17# and a 30 foot cast?!

Like those little wings on the old Timber Cranks?

Big M,  never knew of you or your product.    NOthing I posted was in reguards to you or your products or your knowledge.   I guess you make cranks.  Sorry.    Just realizing this on Sat. morning.   LOL

  LOL  somebody needs to quit trolling product plugs on simple ask questions.   Again, not at you M, but the guy who mentioned your baits, thus I asked where?  since I have never heard of them before.

Hookem

 

       

What stores do I buy these M's at.

Interesting - - I answer YOUR question and you label my response "product trolling."

Anybody with the reading comprehension level of a first grader can figure out who's really trolling in this thread.

Moderating is best left to moderators.  

Great thread until the thin skins took over.

Canards?????--some type of French Dessert? ;D

Can-nards: The innards of a can.

And they are NOT fancy, readily available: Dinty Moore, Progresso, Campbell's, ...

Seriously...Canards are small wings used (as far as I know) on submarines and jet fighters. I guess they act as stabilizers too, which I suppose is not what you'd want on a crankbait. They would add diving plane area, but probably not allow much wiggle. Unless Big M gets busy and get's creative with 'em. Who knows? A 2" plug that can achieve 30feet on 17# and a 30 foot cast?!

Like those little wings on the old Timber Cranks?

That's them! Leave it to Tom Seward. Creative guy he is.

Don't want to stir any pots here but I didn't see any reason NOT to include custom designs in this thread. The quick descent design used  on Rapala DT's were brought into mass production through David Fritts.

Anyway...interesting thread.

That's them! Leave it to Tom Seward. Creative guy he is.

Don't want to stir any pots here but I didn't see any reason NOT to include custom designs in this thread. The quick descent design used on Rapala DT's were brought into mass production through David Fritts.

Anyway...interesting thread.

Tom is such a good designer.....anybody who can create such killer cranks with the kind of price-point restrictions that Luhr-Jensen puts on them is talented. The Speed-Trap is one of the best cranks out there at ANY price.

I think rapid descent might go even further back. The original Bagley DB3's (introduced in the 70's, I believe) have a pretty darn sharp dive angle. I would assume the almost straight lip angle (a weighted lip, as well) was one of the biggest factors.

I know it isn't the first diving bait, but even after all these years, it still performs amazingly well compared to modern deep cranks.

Yeah, I guess if you look designs go back further than most us us do lol.

I'm an archer, and I make my own bows from scratch. Designs gets really complicated (stickbows, not even including wheeled bows), and interestingly a bow was pulled, well preserved, from a marsh in Oregon that was dated at 9000 years! It was a reflex-deflex design with flat limbs! People have been taking tool design to the nth degree for a very long time.  8-)

What stores do I buy these M's at.

Interesting - - I answer YOUR question and you label my response "product trolling."

Anybody with the reading comprehension level of a first grader can figure out who's really trolling in this thread.

Moderating is best left to moderators.

LOL   Uncalled for in my book.