22 replies to this topic

[Capt.Bob]

Mostly I am very cheap!! and nothing is cheaper to use!! FACT!

I have seen a lot of people use superlines like mono, and get upset with it's performance, and not know why they are having trouble and others aren't. So after 20 or so years of using it, I am going to try to state how and why I use NOTHING ELSE. I am trying to give some idea of what to start with if you are new to SUPERLINES. I am not posting this for those who have experience with these lines and understand the differences, but there are a lot of post that show many new users to Braid and Synthetics try and match or compare 8 Lbs. tes mono to 8 Lbs. test Braid. and that is not reasonable. it is far beter to compare each using the same diameter of both for a better understanding with less problems.

First I will explain I have used Fireline since it was introduced, I was a guide on Lake Erie running my own Charter for the past 20 years. I now prefer Power Pro or the new Fireline Braid and these are all I use now, I have tried some others but I prefer these for all my fishing needs.

The first thing I have seen some new users to Braid and other synthetic superlines do is tie it directly to the spool. You have to put a few rap's of mono or Fluoro on the spool and then tie to that, with the Synthetics, if you don't, you will probably have a problem with the whole spool of line slipping on your spool, when applying pressure, this will be more noticeable with the lesser amount of line you have on the spool. The Mono will allow it to grip to the spool and let your drag determine how much pressure you can apply and still reel in line.

Then I have seen the use of "to light of line being used" to light of line will cause wind knots, and winding problems, just like using to thin of mono on different reels. If you are spooling a Baitcaster with 8 Lbs. test mono, you need to use a line with a diameter that is the same as you would have to use with mono. If you use 30 Lbs. test Braid with 8 Lbs test mono diameter, you wont have the casting problems and the line digging into itself like small diameter mono does, but you will have better handling line that doesn't dig into your Bass size baitcaster, it won't give the wind knots the thinner braid will, and will be longer casting and better handling than mono and fluoro of the same diameter, because it won't absorb water, it won't have a memory causing those annoying coils, it will not strech like a rubber band, and will give you better feel than any other single component in your outfit.

I think you would have as much of an increase in feel, using a cheap rod with Braid as you would a Croix Legend and mono, or very close and for 100's of dollars less. On spinning gear you can get by with much lighter line, but if 2 or 4 Lbs. test mono is hard to control in the wind for you, so will 6 or 10 pound test Braid, because it as small in diameter and even limper in body. So I go with 6 Lbs. test on my 1000 size ultra lights which is 2 Lbs. diameter and can be frustrating in the wind, just like 2 Lbs. test mono, and 15 Lbs. test on my 2500 size Bass and Walleye spinning rig's as limp as 6 Lbs. test or limper. I use leaders to determine the style of attack I will go with, (I will explain in a moment).

The other big thing I here others say is they don't like the way it will spook fish, I DON"T EITHER. Myself and others who have refined the use of these lines and always use a leader. I have seen many use a swivel to the mainline and then tie a short Fluor or mono leader on, and use it that way, I don't like this, it will work for a Carolina Rig, but I prefer a 10 to 12 foot leader, joined to the mainline with a blood knot. I will use up to 12 or 15 Lbs test mono, on my bass rigs and never break my Braid. The Braid does not have the weakening at the knot that the Mono and Fluorocarbon does. So now I have the ability to change 10 or 12 foot of line and match the tactic I am going to use. I can put a 12 foot Fluoro leader of 6 Lbs. test and work the slowest fineness rigs in the clearest water, or 12 lbs. test 12 foot leader, and Carolina rig around light cover. On my baitcaster I can go from 8 Lbs to 25 Lbs test Fluoro or mono leaders for different tactics, and fish Texas rigs in light cover with the 8 Lbs test. and then fish crankbaits to Flipping heavy cover and timber with the same 30 Lbs test mainline, but have the dexterity that 8 Lbs test mono has or lighter but use the 12 to 25 Lbs. test Mono or Fluoro leaders for the heavier cover and areas with timber! And so much more feel and sensitivity that it can't be explained, you have to feel it.

Some things I have heard non believers of Braid say are, it will cut my valuable guides? it has no streach, I need forgiveness? I have used this stuff like I said for nearly 20 years, BPS. Extreme rods and Bionic Blade rods were what I supplied to my clients, and with 14 Lbs. test fireline Chrystal, 4 years was the average life span of the line once put on one of those reels, and the rods were used for over 15 years on all of them unless a client did something to break it, I never had an eye cut with line, I had eyes broke from hitting some thing or another kind of impact, but never cut from line. I personally own and fish no less than 7 Avids and 6 Legends, I have never had one eye damaged or replaced using fused or braided line.

My answer to no stretch, THANK GOD!! I love the ability to take instant control of any situation. I like others want a little forgiveness when throwing cranks and spinners, I have found that using one power lighter (M, instead of MH, or MH, instead of H) and going to a moderate action will give me a better hookup ratio than the hookup ratio I had in the years past with mono.

Probably the single biggest gain using Braid in any situation would be in the river. I fish the largest tributary to Lake Erie a lot. The Maumee River, it is very rocky from cracks in flat limestone bottom to boulders and rocky spawning areas. I went back to a rod with mono and was not at all happy. I found in the fast water and rocky boulder littered bottom, when you felt a snag or catch, by the time you jerked far enough to get the stretch and bow out of the line the hook or lure was dug in and now it usually meant breaking off, loosing your line and wasting time retying. With the Braids a simple flip of the wrist is all it takes to clear the obstruction and allowing the lure to continue down stream in the current, most of the time. There are still times you will loose a lure, but they are drastically reduced, and very seldom, if you watch the condition of your leader, will you loose a lure or break off.

So hear is what I do. I use 6 wraps or more of mono to terminate to my spool. I then tie my Braid ( or synthetic line ) directly to the mono with a blood knot and fill to full cappacity.

I use the same diameter line in Braid to match the same diameter I would use if using mono. If you like 8 Lbs. test mono on your spinning reel, use 20 pound test Braid, if you normally use 12 Lbs. test mono on your level wind reel, when using Braid I would use 30 or 45 Lbs. test. In other words match the diameter of the mono you are use to using, by buying the same diameter in Braid, the braid will be much higher Lbs. test, but will be as limp and cut the water very closely to what you are use to with the same diameter mono you have used for years, but will last 10's of time longer and give unbelievable response and sensitivity.

Now where savings really mount up. When I used Mono a lot of my reels would not make a full season on a full spool of line. I would either loose to much on snags break offs and reties. Sometimes the line was just weathered out and not up to the task anymore or to much memory and coils made it a hassle to use. None of these things pertain to Braid and Synthetics, they have no memory, and stay limp for life. reties are done with the leader many times on one leader, there is no weather condition to deteriorate Synthetics, even UV doesn't efect there chemistry. So now I have to maybe cut a little off from time to time when it gets a little ragged, I usually can get by with adding a little backing the first year, and then after two years I turn it around on the spool and I add the backing requiered to have a full spool when finished even if I add 40 yards of backing after 2 years my lews with 20 lbs. test power pro super slick will have over 100 yards of Braid on it and at least 150 feet that is virgin. Know since there is no memory it is Brand new and acts just like brand new line so for about $5.00 a year I have the best line available, and all I am doing is changing a leader now and then.

There will always be those that disagree, but this is the system I have developed for the past 15 or twenty years and it has served me and my clients well. Like I say I am a Tight @xx (cheap), and this is the cut I have made in my fishing cost with terminal tackle, you simply can't fish mono or the new expensive Fluorocarbons any cheaper. and I feel by using my leader system, I am as stealthy as the users of Fluoro, and gain even more benefits from the best of both of these types of line. the one thing I didn't mention is the leader It cast thru the rod without issue and I can retie many times on the 10 or 12 foot leader before I need to cut it and start with a new one. I let water clarity determine how long it has to be to stay stealthy, if I think it is going to be to short and spook fish. It is time for a new one.

[hatrix]

I agree 100%. Once you adjust to using it and know how to set the hook depending on what technique your using you can never go back completely to other lines. Using braid has changed everything for me.

[0119]

Interesting. I see no need for a backing just use the wejebe method and uni knot it. I find the only asset to braid is the opposite of your finding. I would only use it in the smallest diameters to gain huge benefits in casting distance. What knot to attach your leader have you found works best in the 20 years you've used it.

[nice_Bass]

I agree, and well written- except for that awful sound it makes going through the guides....gahhh, it gives me chills.

[tim4vols]

i use 20#braid and love it

[Capt.Bob]

Interesting. I see no need for a backing just use the wejebe method and uni knot it. I find the only asset to braid is the opposite of your finding. I would only use it in the smallest diameters to gain huge benefits in casting distance. What knot to attach your leader have you found works best in the 20 years you've used it.

+

Thanks for bringing this up, I was afraid my initial post was too long, and I left many many advantages out. I will address the draw backs of the wejebe knot method. If you like the sticky black gooey mess that adhesive tape, especially plastic electric tape leaves, by all means the Wejebe works, I don't like the sticky stuff stuck to my gear where if I want it off it will require solvents, I don't ever use solvents on my gear. I also as I said will from year to year add more wraps of mono as I trim frayed line of the Braid thru the year, so eventually you will add wraps of backing or have less than a full spool of line and most fisherman will never use more than 50 yards of line off either end of the 150 yard spool, If you don't want to use the whole spool, my method will allow you to spool two reels with 75 yards of line off one spool and still hold more braid than you will ever use, if by chance you get to the backing while fighting a fish you will have as strong a line as your leader if properly backed. Either way with wejebe knot the only way it any usefull is with a full spool of braid, you will use backing eventually or you will be using less than full spools on your reel, costing you casting distance and drag efficiency, or you will be throwing out line that is never used, and still brand new. Even if you turn it around every year you will need to add backing or have less than a full spool, absolutly no mreason to ever mess up your spool with tacky adhesives.

If you are only using it to cast farther and nothing else, (no memory, no stretch, superior sensitivity, better knot strength, on and on) your missing a lot of the advantages of braid. I think this is probably why you don't use it for everything, there aint much use putting line lighter than 15 lbs test braid on most spinning rods rated for 6 to 17 Lbs. line, you can go to 6 Lbs. test Braid but you will find in anything but very calm conditions line will not be very user friendly! It will get wind knots easily and have a tendency with any slack to wrap around your tip and eyes on the rod, and sooner or later will cost you fish and tangles. That is why I wrote this, if you are using it on a baitcast real and try to use it in a diameter smaller than 6 lbs test mono, which is what 15 lbs test would be, you won't get as long a cast as with 20 lbs test braid and it will dig in with any size fish worthy of such a outfit, I use 20 Lbs test on one rod, I use it on a rod that I never use more than an 8 Lbs. leader with. It is a 6'9" Avid MLXF and I use it for deep finess rigging for Walleye in very clear water, If I have to put more pressure on the drag than this will handle, it will dig into itself on the spool, which is why I use 30 Lbs. test on my other low profile Bass size baitcast reels, it is the same diameter as 8 Lbs. momo, and cast like a rocket launcher. No doubt there are very minor times such as 20 lbs test on a medium heavy spinning rig over 20 lbs mono it is better but you will not be happy with 10 lbs test on that same spinning rod if you go with Ultra light rods as I do for yellow perch crappie and blue gill, anything smaller than 6 lbs test braid or synthetic and it will be more hassle to use than 2 lbs. test mono, I have been there in my 58 years and won't try those things again. and as I said it is cheaper.

As for knots to leader, I like the blood knot as it has more of a taper at both ends of the knot to flow thru the guides better, the double uni is a great knot but both ends of the knot are more squared off. Both give you incredibly reliable knot strength and can be trimmed so there is no tag end to show when properly drawn up tight. There are others but these I have proven and like I said earlier when I mentioned them, if you don't use a heavier mono with these knots than you are running for mainline with your braid you will never loose any of your braid!

[Capt.Bob]

I agree, and well written- except for that awful sound it makes going through the guides....gahhh, it gives me chills.

I agree Keeper! But the new fireline braid is much much smoother rounder and quieter, and the new Power Pro super 8 slick is really quieter! But until they make a braid that does everything braid does and feels like mono we'll live with it! I will anyway.

[0119]

Ive never used tapt with the wejebe method, just followed his directions. Its been successful and is simpler with less knots. Always a good thing. I've never had an issue with wind knots with lighter braids but I think it has to do with self training yourself to keep an eye for it. Never had an issue using the lightest braids with a baitcaster either but again maybe from self training since I for years played with Calcutta 50's and Abu 1500c's spooled with 2 and 4lb. Mono on kokonee trout casting rods. Glad you feel so strongly about braid. That's how I feel about old Abu Ambassadeurs, pistol grip rods and mono.

[dodgeguy]

i agree with all of it except the leaders.i never use them.

[JaxBasser]

i agree with all of it except the leaders.i never use them.

i agree with all of it except the leaders.i never use them.

Yeah same here. I fish in some gin clear lakes with no leader and 50lb braid and have had no problems catching fish.

[Diggy]

i agree with all of it except the leaders.i never use them.

and dodge guy doesnt used outdated 4 carrier braids like powerpro

[SirSnookalot]

I read the OP yesterday and thought about it, IMO it's way over the top for a beginner, just too much info to digest, for the seasoned fishermen, he/she already knows what they are doing, not saying we don't appreciate the effort. For the most part I agree with 0119, I'm with the " Fly" all the way. For me it's braid for just about everything fresh and inshore fishing, no backing ever and I use masking tape, goo from tape is of no issue as I never remove the tape. I no longer turn line over, when it's respool time, it's all new line, I have around 20 fresh and inshore combos, not to mention the offshore ones that I use braid on as well. Much of my fishing is done at the inlet from an elevated position with a lot of current, that being the case I probably fish a bit heavier gear and line than 0019, usually 15 or 20# braid, beach gets lighter gear and 10 or 15# braid. Not always but much of the time I don't tie to the arbor, I just tape it, if I have a fish on that can spool me there is a good chance the knot won't hold anyway, all that will is happen is I lose my line which was going to happen anyway and no damage to my reel from a big fish(or boat, lol)
We catch some pretty powerful fish here, 10-20# line does the job, I think 0119 will back me up on that.

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

I have used lighter braid for years exclusively 8# - 10# PP on spinning gear and wind knots are not an issue for me. I live where it is windy windmill farms all around my area. Most of it is operator error I think closing bail wrong or filling spool too far.

About light braid on BC here I differ from most as well I used 10# for 10 years on BC and it works fine for me. I just this year went to 15# PPS8S on 50E and JMCarbonlite and the stuff works great. I dont catch big bass so heavier/larger dia line not needed in my situation. If I were to have digging issues or line management issues I wouldnt have continued its use. I still think most people use too high a test braid just to say they use 65# test.

Leader started use of it this year dont notice any difference in hook-ups in water 15' depth vis. If fish dont care about the Alabama rig they wont care about 10# thin braid. I sight quite a few of my catches walking the shore give'em what they want line wont matter. Maybe its the use of thin dia light braid that
is the difference and works well without leader.

[0119]

I agree Quake. The diameter of the thinnest braids probably blends right in with the various debris in the water and in the background. Ive been using the new power pro 8 in brown for fishing tannin stained rivers with good success. But only on my spinning gear. Im still happier with mono for casting gear but trying to get used to braid. Re spooling mono every month is getting old. Just can decide if for me what I see as braids pitfalls can be outweighed by its convenience.

[smalljaw67]

I will disagree with a little bit of it but it was informative. I fish a shallow rocky river but it is pretty big, it is the Susquehanna river and using brided line in that river made me miserable. The biggest problem is fraying, there is so many rocks and boulders in the area I fish that it is like reeling line through a river of razor blades. Flouro works but I can stand it on spinning reels but Trilene XT surprisingly holds up rather well. I will admit, sensitivity with braid is off the chart as it will make cheap rods feel like a good rod but I do well without it, perhaps if I was making a living out of fishing by guiding or if I was fishing big money tournaments then it is a different story but for now my braid is confined to being used for frog fishing in slop and flipping super heavy cover.