Paul Roberts

Not pics. Glad you're back in business. Love those weather shots: Times when you know you're ALIVE! Me I'm at a desk with my heart barely pumping.

Thanks Paul. A billfish hook eh? How cool is that! I may never try it, but I like to know what the possibilities are. Thanks. Oh...and I had to add this post of Big O's. It's really a creative way of offering kudos (not to put you on the spot buddy): "Paul never thinks inside the box...."Cause it aint Big enough" Briggin! Besides that, a box has four corners....and like me, he probably had to go to the corner alot when he was little and it wasn't a good time lol "

Rambling Crestliner? You're a lightweight in the rambling department ;D But a heck of an angler -that much is apparent. Thanks for your clarity. Now I'm gonna take Glenn's lead and go muddy the waters.. I have read Buck and very recently. In a recent post where Buck came up, BR member Jeff H challenged posters to read or re-read Buck. Since I hadn't read Spoonplugging in a long time, and didn't own a copy, I went ahead and ordered the whole shooting match his 7 volume course, and even got a very yellowed package of vintage spoonplugs with it LOL. I'm pretty up to date on what Buck wrote. Buck layed some significant ground work. He was a trained engineer who brought a fiercely analytical mind into fishing. It revolutionized fishing. But it is not the end in itself; the learning hasn't stopped there. He repeatedly put it out there, I am no expert; There is always more to be learned. The 1980s were all about trying to make sense of the behaviors in bass that didn't follow what Buck thought was going on such as bass living in shallow slop fields, smallmouths that suspend over 100fow, or the realization that in most natural lakes, where bass are indigenous, the home of the largemouth was on vegetated flats. Depth can be important here, as are all the changes that make for breaklines. The definition of breaklines, likely originally pertaining to depth contours (the spoonplugs place in the world), has expanded to include almost anything that might contain bass movement or activity. Interestingly, I found evidence of Bucks absorption of new information in Spoonplugging, written later than the original materials showing deviations from his original formulas. Buck continued to learn, as have we all. Should people read, or re-read, Buck Perry? Absolutely, but not for his interpretations of fish behavior (which was limited), or even for his trolling system, but for the analytical and systematic methodology he applied to fishing, and what it brought to a world of anglers who couldn't see past the surface, or the next laydown. Anyway, on to some nitty gritty No apologies needed. Excellent post, as usual Crestliner. I'm no expert trolller would love to drop this thread into one of the walleye forums but I don't agree that speed and water temperature don't matter. Buck Perry didn't either. He designed the spoonplug to run well at different speeds. And he said (Sez) that you must check ALL depths and ALL speeds. He also said you can't predict it. You can get a ballpark idea through seasonal and weather conditions. But you gotta be testing it each day. I for one am not convinced it's not understandable enough to be predictive at some level. But I have not covered the water Buck has so maybe I'm on a fool's errand. You are very right that bottom contact will catch you fish. But let's not limit ourselves. Bottom contact is a trigger, but not the only one. It may be a really good one a lot of the time, but it's not always possible in a lot of waters. Buck avoided waters with too much cover. He wanted clean bottom, in part because the spoonplug sported open trebles and sunk like a hunk of metal. The spoonplug required clean bottom. He went so far as to clear wood cover from reservoirs during low water imagine that! He cut paths through weed beds on good structure. He also suggested that anglers if they had the choice -bypass waters that did not offer the proper layout such as those with soft bottoms and/or heavy cover. It would have been hard for him to tell, through spoonplugging, if bass NEEDED clean bottom, or the spoonplug did. Ditto for bass being bottom oriented. Buck interpreted the bass' world through the spoonplug, and it had its limitations. In the mid 70s, the time structure fishing hit the masses, a guy named Bob Underwood donned SCUBA gear and went to see for himself. He found that bass were not bottom oriented, but suspended often, or were oriented to cover as if it were bottom. Most bass he observed were suspended over weedbeds, or along the edges of them. Ralph Manns followed with similar observations and took it much further. As to S-turns n such: Most lures do not trigger strikes well dragged through open water, either cast or trolled, for a variety of reasons. Triggers matter, and bottom contact is one. Changing speed and direction can trigger too, and may be your only option in certain waters. There are also techniques such as Trolling through Space, the dragging of finesse worms through open water for suspended smallies, used secretly by Ron Lindner in tournaments on some large northern lakes. Bob Underwood describes prop-wash trolling for largemouths in canals in Florida. I hear what you are saying, and agree. Buck said You gotta MAKE em hit, and trolling does require fairly open water even the C-rig shines in open areas. Certainly, if the bottom will support it be bumping it it'll trigger strikes. And if you cover enough water, and systematically, you're bound to run into some bottom oriented bass. Your advice is sound. But it's not the only possibility.

LOL No shame there. Being a sucker seems to be part of the game. Are we really after more fish or more lures. Sometimes it's hard to tell.

I should have one this week. Haven't read a bad review yet.

Anyone know if the Series One rods are IM7 or IM8?

Hey Paul, nice to see you back in action. So...how did you fish this via circle hook?

John...what can I say... A LOT! ;D In my neck of the woods, the bass are on the 'gills that are on the damsels. What bass look for is a distracted bluegill. Fully aware 'gills are hard to catch and bass are not fools when it comes to identifying prey. the fools already starved to death. People so often talk about "wounded" prey, but that's not most of what bass identify as vulnerable prey day in and day out. As to that photo...that one isn't trying to BS anyone. And I don't mind some of those big hands shots... anyway...'nuff said here. Russ, that's really plausible. I don't know the details either but what you've seen, esp in your aquarium is darned interesting. As to scent, I dunno, plausible too. I'm not ready to go there. It might give me one of Muddy's headaches. You've got my attention on this topic though, from this and that previous thread. Hey, good stuff all.

What's interesting is how easy it is to miss sighted fish in close.

There was some research in which LM were tested in a lab to see what they could discern (by either food reward and/or electric shock -don't remember the details) . Anyway, they found bass can detect mono lines as thin as 6lb test in clear water up close. Vision also varied with individual bass a fair amount. But...the study MADE the lines relevant to those fish -by repeated reward and consequence. In our fishing it's a different story. I've seen enough situations where people have been successful tying braid direct, even in fairly clear water, that it's probably more in our heads than something with the bass. Not to say bass can't learn to associate lines, or be turned off by them. But I think most of the time bass can't make the relationship. Now, where it really comes into play is diameter affecting action. This is a biggie. Also, it's possible bass can hear or feel lines in the water -I am convinced carp can -although they are specialized in their hearing. Bottom line, I use a leader with braid. But, I'm not too spooked by fore-going that at times.

Nifty. Thanks Wayne.

That's a cool observation. With smallies I can (almost) believe it, for one particular reason: Smallies are more apt to be biters, than engulfers. It's why they can be hard to hook sometimes -that sharp bite, set the hook, and nobody home! > Reminds me of trout sometimes. Someday someone will work out a better hooking arrangement for these times. A small treble trailer? A red one??

That whole website is sketchy... Check out these photoshop skills! OMG..Did that come from that site? That's really low. Ya know, this isn't the thread for pet peeves, but I'm growing mighty sick of the photos of bass stuck out into a wide lens. Makes the catcher look small, in more ways than one. At the tackle shop I worked at we joked about the photos of all the famous fishers holding big bass. We dubbed 'em, Al "Big Hands" Lindner, and Bill "Popeye" Dance, ... . It's easy to distort fish in photos, even unintentionally. But seeing a 2lb bass like the photo above trying to represent something else is pure BS. I also see this in the mags, like IF, and granted there are many nice fish, ...but misrepresented. No one needs to be ashamed of a 4lb bass, and it doesn't need to look like a 7. And a 7 doesn't need to look like a 10. Unless one has size issues. I think the mags set a standard that is unfortunate. OK...back to Frogs....

Bass are predators,they rely on instincts.If something looks good enough and moves bass will attack and eat it.Instincts will get them in trouble rather it'd be poison or a hook.Otherwise i see no explanation of why a bass would attack it. It's the same reason why Bill Dance's using that Dancing eel lure will induce bites.There's a time and place for every lure to work. Am i close to right? I've heard of people cutting a Zoom horny toad in half and using the back legs portion with a jig. I don't like using frogs,so i do it this way. Dunno what's right really but here are my present thoughts... Most of the slop fishing I've done is in bluegill waters. Some of the best slop fishing has been associated with bluegill activity. I've done well with all kinds of slop lures, not all of them topwater. I did find that there were times that the bass would blow up on baits and miss 'em. Some days it was REALLY frustrating, and I never solved it. The best I could do was switch to a jig and hit pockets or punch. But I think Micro recently offered a really good explanation. (If it's not Micro I apologize to whoever threw this out there). Those blow ups, I concur, are very likely both misses and bass attacking bluegills attracted and distracted by my lure. I think this is a really promising answer. This doesn't answer whether bass eat frogs very often -or more than once lol ! But I really don't know. I've never seen frog parts in a bass as pagersumky has. I did find one in the stomach of a big brown trout once though. I've always thought it was odd that bullfrog tadpoles can be so common in bass ponds, lying all over the place. So, this one remains open in my mind. Maybe others will pipe in and say they've often seen bass eat frogs. But, my point is that what's happening just below the surface may account for many of the "frog" hits we see, and in my waters it seems to be related more to bluegills than frogs. Just my ever-evolving thoughts on the subject. Oh...btw, I found the reference to frogs and bass in Keith Jones' Knowing Bass, where he says that some frogs including bull and leopard contain toxins that repulse predatory fish.

Speed trolling definitely drew a lot of pike.

Ahhhh... Well, I'm no expert either (following J's lead), but... In general (hate to say that but it saves lots of typing), depends on time of year. In summer NO! -not necessarily. We used to do what was called "speed trolling" -Paul Prorok I believe introduced that in Fishing Facts in the 70s. Bombers and Waterdogs at high speed. We didn't have a speedo but it was moving! We also found that by reefing on the rods to clear weeds, we'd trigger more strikes. Worked so well we would often rip those speed trolled plugs. The plugs would accelerate and often dart to one side. Nearby, or following, fish couldn't hack that. To give you an inkling of what a LM is capable of I got onto burnin' lipless a while back. I found that I could not retrieve too fast for a bass to run it down. One time I had a big one appear behind my Spot, accelerate and overrun the plug, then keep on coming -I never caught up to her . She stopped in front of me, trailing some yards of my line behind her, then spit the plug >. I switched to a giant spinning reel that drew 36"/turn (Quick 440N -remember that one?), and it simply skipped the lure across the surface lol. As to the speed you should be starting at, I would start at a moderate clip, with good plug action, and cover water -you'll most likely locate active fish. And play with triggers -mostly direction and speed changes -in warmer water these can be intense, but subtle changes work like a charm a lot of the time. In summer I would not hesitate to speed troll.

Man...I just love the look of your waters. Hey, there's a reason those fish look like ours, we share species, or at least genera. Landforms just aren't stable in geologic time scales.

8-) 8-) 8-) You know...there are lots of "secret" lakes out there. Just no one bothers to ask. Seriously. Lots of people are too shy, or afraid to get rejected. I had the keys to a set of university research ponds once. I just talked with the manager (we shared other interests) and he gave me run of the place. It's eye opening to fish for bass that have never been fished before. Afterwards, if anyone tells you fish can't learn (fast!) you can smile to yourself.

Nifty. Can you cut the fingers off?

Excitement of the moment I guess. I can understand that -for a quarter pound or so. But 3 or 4?

Did you say "new"?Ouch! That is not a good start! Was it dropped? Sounds like dry bearings maybe. Can you return it? Exchange for another?

What speed would you run the boat? Put the plug/lure in the water at boatside and observe its action.

Yeah, it's cool looking. Reminds me of the original Bill Plumber's "Bass Frog" -the old firm foam one with the kinked legs. I loved that lure. None of the re-designs were close. I've always wondered about "frog" baits though. Supposedly, and I've read this through several sources, that bull frogs and leopard frogs (the one this lure is modeled after) contain toxins in their skin that repulse fish predators. So, I've wondered what "frog" bites are all about. I have some ideas, but will spare you my long winded thoughts. Suffice it to say, "frog" baits catch fish, but I'm not convinced it's for the reasons we might think. This probably spills into other areas -about just what lures of all types are actually "representing". BTW: And not to be a party pooper, but that bass in the vid is not "way over 10lbs". Way under is more like it.

I used to do a lot of winter steelheading and ice fishing. I never found anything waterproof that worked well enough to fish with. I tried a pair of neoprenes but they weren't terribly warm and tore too easily. Maybe there's better ones out there now. What I did, and still do, is get a pair of inexpensive poly-fleece gloves and cut the fingers off at the half way point. If it was colder I had pairs with only half of the thumb and first two digits cut off -keeping my outer fingers warmer -these were the ones that were always in most danger of frost bite. Do not use cotton. It soaks water like a sponge, takes forever to dry (fugettaboutit) and isn't warm when damp. Remember the backpacker's mantra, "Cotton Kills!" Poly doesn't collapse so it maintains some insulating properties, and it can be wrung out Plus it dries fairly quickly if given half a chance. I carried two pair of poly's, and used a wool "tailing glove" for handling fish (Poly soaks up slime so is not a good fish handling material) My tailing glove was a single right hand mitt clipped to the right side of my vest. If it was especially cold (single digits) I'd carry a pair of down gloves too as warm ups. Five minutes in those and I was back in business. I've got really good circulation in my extremities too; everyone's different that way. But primary, before gloves, is keeping your core body temperature up: good thermals and layers. And last, for me, keep the calories up. A full day on-stream meant packing lunch too. Well...didn't mean to write so much but I guess warm hands are as important in steelheading as rods and baits. Remember, I'm old school, There may be new stuff out there. Maybe J Francho, will pop in (the next generation on my old home waters) and update us all on winterizing.

I've done it on a number of lure types, mostly to increase gap, make a bait more weedless (sometimes with home-made guard), make un-hooking easier, and damage fish less. With crankbaits, I've tried it but not been satisfied -at least for the front hook. I have some that I've replaced the rear hook with a single. But mostly I've stayed with trebles but now mash the barbs down. This works surprisingly well for me. Keep the line taught during the fight and I've just not found a difference compared to barbed hooks -until I go to unhook the fish: Barbless hooks just slip right out beautifully. Lipless plugs I keep barbed though as they are seem easier for fish to throw. If you are concerned about fighting fish with barbless hooks, there are micro-barbed hooks out there. Some Rapala plugs have them, and they are pretty easy to remove.