Paul Roberts

Who said what, Fred? Sorry I'm outta the loop on this one. I saw some in a store, at a steep price. I'm kinda chompin' at the bit (bait monkey thing). They are on the Yakima site, an intro ad page, but no purchasing info. I've already emailed 'em but while I wait this monkey's got it's arms around my neck and won't leggo! Rationale: I THINK this SB will do very well what I do most with SBs: slow bulge, drop, slow-roll. All in one! Wouldn't that be nifty, and clear out space in my SB box.

Chris, That first fish looks like a hybrid -a spotted x SM, or LM x SM. Could it be?

It's not common, but I've seen my share. Not sure of the reasons but JF is probably on the mark. I caught a small rainbow off Hedges (at night of course) that looked like a rainbow trout colored softball, with a tail glued on. It was as round as any fish I've ever seen as wide as it was deep. Very strange. I remember it fought like a...a softball with fins.

Go ahead and make new threads. Those are good topics by themselves. Name it say, "Walking the Dog", then others using the search feature can find it. You can also try the search, there might be previous threads. If not, add one!

Some thoughts: You are in VA. Slightly south (longitudinally) of me in N CO. Should be too early for spawning, but being on the coast (with Gulf Stream) you might be further advanced compared to CO. With main lake surface at 59 that's getting close, but the temp you need to know is down at about 4 to 6 feet. My guess is your depths are still quite a bit cooler. Should be too early for spawning. With the temp surge you have going, you might be seeing a pre-spawn surge. We are also approaching the full moon (11th), which I believe synchronizes the spawn. Together, these brought a wave of eager pre-spawners. The females are likely very nearby. They are likely tightly grouped together. You simply missed them! The other option is that this was a feeding movement with bass moving in to pick off preyfish attracted to the heated shallows in that cove. If these are small prey, the bigger females may not be interested in them. However, temps you mention, the numbers you saw, and the moon, I'm guessing it was a pre-spawn wave. Some males MIGHT even knock a few premature beds in. Again, the females were probably nearby, just tightly grouped still. An alternative possibility for female location: There's a theory, proposed by Rich Zaleski, that females will regulate egg temp by moving deeper or shallower. There is no scientific evidence for this, as far as I've been able to find, but it's something I keep in the back of my mind. Rich is an astute angler. Either way, to find them, you might try a jig-n-trailer, creature, or spinnerbait, or lipless. The bigger females like these. The Senko's fine too, just a little slower to fish I think. Follow up with the Senko, or soft jerk. Let us know what your follow up brings.

Very pretty fish. Yes, and stunningly beautiful landscape! Wow! I have a couple ponds that give up dark fish like that, esp under a winter sun.

Great question. I'd like to know too. I did swap trebles for large singles on lipless cranks a while back (Cordell Spots). I caught fish but had one day where I got some bangs and missed 'em. Been leery since. One thing worth trying -not sure if it would work. You might try to ascertain the hook orientation on treble hooked fish, and see if you can't tell whether the leading prong caught the most fish. I might check this out just for the heck of it.

Who sells them? And what's the price on them?

Welcome herefishy! I don't want to put you on the spot, esp with your being new here, but I do want to call attention to a potential misconception -that temp is everything. Hope you're OK with my expanding on your comment. Temperature is very important. But, it's just a facet of fishing and it can really focus the action. But...there are fish to be caught in colder water too. During early spring bass are acclimatized to cold water. Higher temps are only skin deep then though, and are often welcome (or better!) but not necessary. I see a direct correlation between temp, bluegills and bass in early spring in my ponds. When early spring temps don't set up appropriately though, it doesn't mean there's no fishing to be had. But consolidated heat sure can make the fishing more predictable, and easier. Wind can destroy that scenario, but doesn't mean there aren't other options on that water body, and especially so on other water bodies.

Here's a write-up of a trip to the above mentioned pond: http://www.bassresource.com/bass_fishing_forums/YaBB.pl?num=1213965803/0#0 In it I rattle on some about bass feeding behavior, but really am describing LM behavior more than that of SM. I chatted with Ralph Manns a bit about the FAT smallie idea and he wondered if it doesn't have something to do with the fact that SM were originally a riverine species, and LM lacustrine (still water), and wht we see in some present day smallies is the energetic difference stillwater environments provide SM. Pure speculation, but interesting.

Congrats! Feels really good to onto something doesn't it! Shad, stuffed into a cove. Sounds kinda like a lot of bluegills I've known.

Some dogs won't learn new tricks, especially while on the water. My guess is his experience, and therefore confidence, is all centered on the shallows. You had an uphill battle. It'll be much harder to fight on the water. Better to get him psyched and prepped, off the water. Get a good vid on deep water techniques, or just DS, and have a few beers. I'll bet he'll be more apt to try it.

Topic comes up every spring. I am not aware of any scientific answer. It ain't all about eating crayfish. I personally think it's hormonal, but I have no info on this. On some fish this shows at the vent and fins too, often the anal and tail fin. I caught one this year that looked like it had been washed with rose-colored water color paint around the vent and extending across the leading edge of the anal fin. It fades pretty quickly as water temps rise.

Interesting way of looking at it.

Interesting. Keep us updated. Looks like there is some current moving through it, right now at least. This may be due to spring run-off. They might end up really low in summer. The summer levels will tell you what habitat you really have. Many stream anglers that only fish in the spring can be fooled as to real stream size and habitat for game fish by spring water levels. If this is the case, you may be better off elsewhere. Are you sure there are bass there? Are there others that fish this water too? Since there is current, in general I'd avoid it for largemouths, as they generally will too. This is especially important now that the water is cold. If there are mature largemouth they will have winter holds somewhere, and may travel a distance to get there. You would need to concentrate there. My guess is, by the looks of the size of that water (pretty small) and that current (that might impede LM movements in general), the good LM fishing year round (if there is any) will most likely be close to what wintering water there is. I did fish one water that had some current (at just a few moderate bottlenecks) and was surprised at the decent bass fishing there -up to 2lbs or so. I did well on small marabou jigs, in-line spinners, and small lipless cranks. This water was a bit larger than yours and was an outlet to and within a few miles of a bass lake. Just some thoughts after looking at the pictures.

fishnjohn, Sent you a PM.

OK, I hope I'm not pulling this thread off topic too much, but, so many topics just get me thinking...at least it's somewhat relevant I think there's something useful in this FAT smallie thing. In comparing LM and SM I'm wondering if this isn't another view into the relative efficiencies of each. That the playing field for both are not "even" or comparable in some linear way. LMs are more stingy with their energy, and smallies less so -built with dash speed and can exploit open water prey that occur in denser numbers. Is the SM the derived form?? I have a pond with SM, surrounded by similar ponds with LM, where vegetation (milfoil) based bluegills are the primary forage. It's basically a LM fishery if you just looked at it. The smallies here have to hunt bluegills amongst vegetation! They reach good length (20"), but are all thin -to a fish. There is an apparent efficiency issue there, for the smallies. I'm waiting to see if there's a time of year where they get fat -like I see in most LM fisheries. For LM, in "indigenous" habitat, it seems to take a very special set of circumstances to provide such growth, and one I think is more easily perturbed by human imfluence, i.e. eutrophication (which, in many larger open water bodies can actually inc SM growth). Anyway, just throwing it out there.

It'll be interesting to see what the primary forage for larger bass in your pond is this time of year. The big girls in my ponds are really onto the larger 'gills. In the scenario above it's the 5" to 7" 'gills they're after. My ponds also have carp, and crayfish. I'm not sure how they interact with young carp, but it's always in the back of my mind. If you happen to have shad, you are south of me, things may be different, and not related to shoreline cover, but more open water surface areas. I would expect some fish to show up in with the sunfish though -how big depends on the size and numbers of sunfish your pond offers. This kind of thing can change year by year too. Is your dam earthen or have rip-rap? Rip-rap can draw preyfish (including shad), and crayfish -it's just good cover. Worth checking on too. Do let us know what you find out. Each water is a case study in itself.

Senko77, I have a friend with such a beast. I don't know the brand -he said it was a cheapo bait. It has a very large blade and he retrieves it very slow, half sunk, kind of like a wakebait. The bass really take that thing and I've been meaning to play around with that idea, in my own masochistic way out in the shop LOL. Thanks for the link. I see it has a planing head, sharply cupped blades. ice, I like the jointed's for twitching too, a while back now. They wiggle when they make that roll on the twitch. Spring smallies killed a #9 for me.

-Floating Rapala #11 twitched (55F+) esp when flat calm. -Floating Rapala #13 Waked (>60F) in low light. -Any good walking bait. I like smaller ones (~3-1/2" ) in the spring: One I like is the Matzuo Huntin' Dog (LC knock-off and very inconsistent, even atrocious, out of the box). So, I take 'em into the shop and emerge with something that fishes pretty darn well. Why not get an LC? I'm cheap, and therefore masochistic. -1/8oz Triple-Wing buzzbait on wind-rippled water. ...

Ditto. The toughest time I have with this is when I switch from a jig to a topwater. But, I take a good deep breath, collect myself and acknowledge what needs to be done. Program in a pause reaction at a topwater take -WATCH -you DO have time. Don't REACT -WATCH. Often, especially with walking baits, bass will miss, and if you react to everything you'll miss a bunch -braid, mono, or rubber bands! WATCH and decide when to strike. I either make sure the plug is gone, or I just wait 2 seconds after the last surge, and then tighten. Many topwaters have fairly light trebles, you don't have to cross their eyes. Maybe it's all the years of dry-fly fishing. Depending on current speed your reactions must adjust. Know this, and WATCH before you REACT. Sorry, not annoyed here, just emphatic. I HATE missing fish! So it gets me kinda riled thinking about it! ;D

Howdy!

Paul Roberts Senior Member Online Northern Colorado Gender: Two More Fascinating Days on Colorado Pond; Almost a Skunking, and Pure Carnage!! Mar 26th, 2008, 1:50pm March 20th, 2008 Brilliant sun and high temps (65F) forecast awesome heating day. I was gonna KILL EM!!! But Mother Nature threw me a curve... When I arrived I stopped to chat with a fly-fisher. He mentioned that it was supposed to get windy. It was absolutely calm as we spoke and I replied that I hoped it would hold off for a while. We said goodbye, and I turned around and walked right straight into a very stiff wind! I started running! I hit one favorite spot screened from the wind and collected a 13, then ran to a second, where I rose a big mama I know very well. By then the water had only just begun to heat up and she was tentative (and educated). I also reacted tentatively and was rewarded with a large flash beneath the water as she let go of my lure. AWWWWHH! ...Good morning Mama. Go back to whatever you were doing. Rats!!! By then there were whitecaps across the water, and I watched as water temps eroded all the way around the pond as cold water was rolled up from the depths. Heating never happened. And I fished hard, in a very uncomfortable wind, just to see if I could pull something together. I couldn't. I finally abandoned the pond and headed to another I thought might be protected it wasn't, the water roiled and cold. I failed there too, and I was chilled enough not to beat myself up trying to eek out a couple bites. March 25th 2008 Warm spell following good cold front. Monday was to hit mid 60's but a strong wind came in that made me decide to hold off a day. Tuesday was calm, and promised 65 and sun, which was realized. I was almost trembling in anticipation. I started early, to watch the pond heat up. And it did, but slowly. I measured 49F at 10AM the air was chilly. I spent the time fishing and observing. No bluegills were seen in the immediate shallows yet. I didn't turn a fish from 10AM til I broke for lunch at 1pm. And I even began to let a few doubts creep in. Could I be wrong? Could something else be happening? But I quashed em. After lunch, at 2PM, I started my rounds again. I got 52F at the upwind corner, and 56.5F at the downwind a half hour later, and spotted little fish (1½ ) along the cattail roots and shoreline flotsam. I do not know what they were! Wish I'd had a net. They were predacious and even chased my lure moving in quick starts and stops like bass or sunfish. They must be late summer born sunfish likely greens. I talked with one of three anglers who'd been there all morning. He'd caught 2 little ones, he said, and was headed home. From there the day began to heat rapidly and the temps of the downwind side reached 60F at 5PM, then fell back to 56F by 7PM. Bluegills had lined the bank, and soon after, the heavy boils and thick wakes of large bass appeared. It became pure carnage as big females rolled in to pick off those concentrated gills! My tally was 11; The 6 largest in order of capture: 20 even. Jerkbait. On 8lb line I had to backreel again and again. I had no idea how big she was going to turn out to be. I had my scale but forgot to use it! She would have been shy of 5lbs. Healthy but not a barrel. Look at the long tail on her. Man, did she use it! Healthy 17¾ Jerkbait. Gorgeous 19 Jerkbait. Thin 19. I switched to a swimbait, as the bass were on to my jerkbait. This one chased to the shore and I ran out of water! So I killed it in 8inches depth, and she sucked it off bottom. She had several old hook bruises, and was very thin. Gorgeous 19½. Swimbait. She took on a long cast (right in amongst a pod of gills) and was a handful to subdue. 18½. In-line Spinner. Last fish of the evening. A very strong fighter lots of back-reeling on 8lb line. The Jerkbait. This one I made from a Bagley's Topgun, by belly weighting. It's a much shallower running plug then most others, which allowed me to fish it over the dead weeds and algae less hook cleaning, more attraction and triggering time. A less stable plug, it took me some practice to get er to twitch and flash just right. As you can see, color is low on my list of priorities. Took about three hours to catch these fish. They were not pushovers. Seems bigger bass rarely are, especially if they've seen lots of lures as they do in this public water. You know, if I didn't keep a journal, these days would be remembered as me catching bass hand over fist, losing the real effort and time put in. However, it sure helps to be able to look at the weather and plan such days in advance.

I fish small waters too. Mine are bluegill-based which progress in a certain way due to the heat-loving habit of sunfish. In my case it really does help to be able to pick my days. Here's what I look for and avoid in the initial heat-up/early pre-spawn period in my ponds: Pick the day: You have a good heating week coming (assuming bright sun and little wind) awesome. I often like the second or third good heating day following a cold front. Yup, this is smack dab in the bluebird sky period. Horrors! This doesn't bother the fish when there's killin' to be done and consolidated heat attracts hordes of sunfish, carp and bass. What you want to avoid are the windy days that come as the next front approaches. Strong wind will destroy heating and even roll up frigid subsurface waters. Check the wind forecast and how close the next approaching front is. A light wind (breeze) can be good. Since warm water floats over cold, a breeze can push warmed surface water and stack it into coves or onto shorelines. If these are good fish holding areas, you could have something really good. ULTIMATELY (you did say you wanted to pick your time didn't you?), you want something approaching a 10degree diff between the surface and subsurface (~4feet down). Heating in early season is only skin deep. Pick the location(s): Look for areas that both heat well and hold preyfish: -Sun incidence (often the N shore but not always if better habitat exists elsewhere) -Shallow protected (calm) areas (coves, corners, flats), usually close to deep water, usually with cover to concentrate and hold prey. -Walk the shoreline and look for sunfish piled into heated shallows. This develops through the day, often peaking by late afternoon. You can sleep in, or take care of your Honey-Do's. -Sun heats, but may pose presentation problems, especially in clear water, so plan to fish into the evening. You may find you make all your catches as the sun gets lower. Clouds could help, unless they come too early and stop the heating. Doesn't mean there won't be fish to catch by any means, but it's real nice to have concentrations of viciously aggressive bass. Thus, if I can pick my day, time and place, I will. In the end, you make do with what nature gives you. Lots of clinkers to your best laid plans are possible. But, when it comes together, it can be ...amazing. This fishing holds, and will keep you praying for cold fronts to keep things chilled for re-heating as long as possible (a long period in the north, possibly non-existent in the south), until heat penetrates the depths. When I start measuring mid 50s at 4feet, the pond relaxes and the intense heating and predator-prey consolidations don't set up, although each water is topographically different. From your description, although your water may be small, it has volume (if you are sure of those depths). It will heat relatively slowly. If you don't have good shallow flats or better, protected coves, then you may be simply knocked back to late winter type fishing. The 30foot depth and only 9acres has me wondering how steep sided your pond is. If it's a small res (dammed) then it probably has a shallow end that will take on the heat. Regardless, many bass should start becoming more surface-water oriented, beginning to prep for the move into shallows to spawn. I'll re-post a report from one such day last spring. I've got the right weather happening now I just need to GET OUT! ;D ;D Not laughing at you -just a good dry sense of humor there. I'm thinking I might go out and get some casting in on the driveway.

Mebbe...but realize strongly windblown areas may have cold water rolled up on 'em. Look for heat or stability. A lot of bass should be shoreline oriented now, but exactly where they are will depend on forage and temperature. Check the shallows but be ready to drop back to the staging areas, which may be cool enough you may be back to jerkbaits, 'traps and jigs. Don't be fooled by warm air temps. It's the direct sun that heats, and the long cold nights that takes it away. As Raul put it in another similar post, You may end up fishing like its early pre-spawn, but be dressed for summer.