retiredbosn

I would ride in your boat anytime, correct. The only thing I'll add is someone showed boater one, the idiot, how to trim for maximum speed. Only thing in the water was his prop, with the pad touching the water. He almost lost control on his last left to right pass. Boater two was over trimmed pushing his bow down, he took the turn at a good speed, knew what he was doing. Point is, novice boat operators have allot to learn, being turned loose with a performance boat without instruction and training can quickly lead to disaster.

What do u mean by Co polymer? Almost all line us a co polymer, by that I mean its a mixture of different types of nylon or fluoro, or a mix of both of those. I suggest ordering YZ from an online sporting goods or flea bay, big fish sports is a real store that sells yz cheap on flea bay

The newest industry darling is fluorocarbon line, the marketing of this line has been so successful that anglers are buying the line in record numbers and using it for every fishing application even those it is unsuitable for. If you don't believe that most of the reason people using this line is marketing, just look at your local sporting goods store. How many underspins are on the shelves now compared to February, never mind that Ashley won on a homemade lure, the fishing industry are going to exploit this to their advantage. The same is true with lines, why aggressively market the most inexpensive line, when you can dupe the market into buying the most expensive? With the exception of NASCAR anglers are the victims of most questionable marketing schemes, its not about getting the best product in your hands, its about what is going to make them the most money. Just look at 2014 classic, Livingston is still pushing the Howler, even though footage clearly shows he caught the majority of his fish on a Rapala. The market has been gobbling up every marketing myth and passing it along as fact, we see on this board numerous questions and myths being passed along as truth, this is not done intentionally but rather by well intended anglers who are misinformed. Today it is hard to separate fact from fiction concerning this line. The purpose of this thread is to shed light on the truths about fluorocarbon line and why it is not the cure all magic bullet that many think it is. I am going to list references at the end all at once. What is fluorocarbon? What are its physical properties? Weaknesses? Strengths? These are some of the questions we will explore. Fluorocarbon line is a fluoropolymer, what is that? A fluoropolymer is a fluorobarbon based polymer made up of carbon and fluorine, it exhibits multiple strong carbon-fluorine bonds. It is characterized by a high resistance to solvents, acids, and bases. You can readily see that this polymer has many applications and fishing line was a happenstance that was championed by two employees of the Kureha Corporation in Japan. Its first applications were as insulators in wiring, as film in capacitors and because of its resistance to UV rays an additive to paints. Fluorocarbon line is made of PVDF. PVDF is a specialty plastic material in the fluoropolymer family; it is used generally in applications requiring the highest purity, strength, and resistance to solvents, acids, bases and heat and low smoke generation during a fire event. The story of how this remarkable fluoropolymer became fishing line can be found here Other characteristics are that the polymer is crystalline in structure and possesses high density and has strong piezoelectricity properties. Basically that means it can take physical force and transmit that as electrical current when under strain. These three properties is what make fluorocarbon line so sensitive. But it comes at a cost, the worse being that it is brittle when compared to nylon, it deforms when stretched and weakens, kink it and it is broken only the outer shell is holding it together. Fluorocarbon line shares more properties of glass that it does to nylon. Myth 1 Fluorocarbon does not stretch or stretches less than mono: this statement is incorrect, tests have shown that fluorocarbon line does stretch and many times depending on brand it stretches more than mono. Now the really bad news, fluorocarbon does not recover from being stretched, and in fact it weakens the line dramatically. Mono on the other hand being a nylon thread recovers from being stretched and retains it strength. So what does this mean to the angler? Any time you catch a fish, get hung up on the bottom and break off the line, pull the line free from being hung up; set the hook, you are inadvertently weakening the line. Not a good thing Myth 2 Fluorocarbon is invisible underwater especially when compared to mono this claim is hard to prove or disprove. For one we do not know how fish see, but from tests that have been published the difference in the visibility factor from nylon mono to fluorocarbon is slight to non-exisistant. For those who want to know, the refractive index of water is 1.333 Fluoro is 1.42 nylon mono in clear ranges from 1.53 to 1.62 the difference mathematically is extremely slight. Of more importance is how we use the line, many anglers will fish a larger diameter line when fishing fluoro, why not it's nearly invisible right? Here is the problem, increases of line diameter also increases line drag which increases vibrations put off by the line passing through the water. This increase in vibration will be felt through the fish's lateral line, making it more detectable. So it really is a toss up, but the refractive index of the lines are so close that this is a moot point. Myth 3 Fluoro is stronger than nylon mono for its diameter size, this is not true, the published line diameters and testing results categorically prove this false. Example Berkley Trilene XL 10 lbs test line diameter is .011 Seaguar Fluoro lines 10 line is .012 diameter. Myth 4 Superior knot strength Really? Please, the palomar knot retains 98% of line's rated knot strength when tying nylon mono and only 72% when used with Fluoro, the best tested not for fluoro was the improved clinch at only 78%, To keep the math simple it breaks down like this using 10lb test mono will break at 9.8lbs using the palomar, fluoro 7.2lbs. About the only claims that manufacturers of fluorocarbon make that are true are abrasion resistance, sink rate and UV resistance. Let's talk about these and see what the trade offs are. Abrasion resistance, the most abrasion resistant lines are stiff because of the hardness of the line, the memory is greater which makes the line harder to manage, but that can be dealt with using KVD line and lure conditioner. The real trade of comes in line strength, brittleness and poor knot strength. The harder the fluoro the more condense the crystalline bond, what this translates to is a line that is easily broken. Kink line like this and it is as good as cut, but the problem is that you don't see it, but as soon as the line comes under a load and snap the outer shell breaks and there goes your fish.. Stretch this line and it is weakened by at least 50% as documented by published tests. Anyone who has been in the Navy or Coast Guard can tell you how stretchy nylon is. Put a 5 inch line under load until it breaks and it snaps back like a rubber band destroying everything in its path. Nylon can stretch and recover without any loss of strength, stretch a hard fluoro and the crystalline structure fragments, the line is disfigured many times. But here is the problem, if your line stretches and becomes thinner can you really tell while on the water, we are talking about hundreds to thousandths of an inch. The entire length of line is compromised but you can't see it.Softer more supple fluorocarbons are available but then you loose the abrasion resistance advantage, the line is no more resistant to abrasion than your typical nylon mono. Sink rate. Fluoro is denser than nylon and sinks 3 times faster, no offset in performance. Except it makes this line useless with topwater baits like Spooks, sammys, poppers or any floating presentation. Great for deep water presentation of jigs, worms etc, less line bow but again it is so slight to be negligible in real world applications. UV resistant. Again fluoro is almost impervious to UV rays so yes its better than mono in this category. But lets take a moment are really see how this plays out. Mono starts breaking down after being exposed for 100 to 300 hours, do you leave your stuff laying around in the sun without moving it for 5 days? Then the only part of the line that is compromised is the top layer of line on the reel and the line going through the guides. If you are actually using the rod then the line exposure to the sun doesn't cause any degradation to the line. It is in movement and being submerged etc. So unless you are laying your rods out in the sun for 5 days at a time this is a moot point. Add to the argument that the line that is exposed is constantly being trimmed when switching out baits and retying your line you quickly realize that this supposed benefit does not equate to added performance of the line. Now lets consider some other factors, I'll start with weight. Since fluoro is denser it also weighs more, which results in higher force needed to get the spool rotating, which only adds to the problem of the line being stiff and harder to manage. On average fluoro weighs 75% more than mono, so on a reel's spool the weight added requires more force to start and stop rotation. Fluoro is stiffer than nylon mono, this is due to the cellular make up of the line. I keep going back to this because it can not be overstated. Because of its cellular make up the line is brittle, which results in weaker knots. Add to this the fact that the line does not "bounce back" after being stretched but weakens and I start questioning the use of fluoro for anything besides a short leader. Due to the fact that a kink actually breaks the line and it makes no sense to put it on a reel, its going to kink, crush and deform. I also want to touch on knot strength again. You hear people state over and over to tie your knots carefully especially when using fluoro, people automatically assume it is because of the line's stiffness and you don't want to deform your line while tying a knot. However more importantly is fluoro's low burning temp, tighten a knot with out spitting on it and you will scorch the line. Tie a palomar with fluoro, don't lubricate it, cinch it down tight, now look where the standing line goes into the knot, see that little crushed spot? It's not crushed, its burnt and it will break right there on a hook set. Sensitivity; due to the density of the line and crystalline structure of fluoro it transmits vibration nicely, or in other words its more sensitive than mono. But how much is a very subjective thing. Another element adding to sensitivity is closed cell construction, fluoro is very water resistant sure it absorbs water but only microscopic amounts, nylon mono soaks up allot of water, which is why almost all tests conducted on mono has to be conducted on line that has been soaked. The open cell construction of mono also lends itself to loosing vibration to the water column before you can register it. In conclusion what is the angler to do? Mono has its drawbacks, and fluoro has allot too. In my mind the answer is simple use a hybrid line, by this I mean a line that is composed of fluorocarbon and nylon that is combined at the molecular level and not just a mono that is coated with fluoro. A line that has closed cell construction so sensitivity is amplified, a line that stretches and bounces back without compromising integrity, a line that is denser than mono but not so dense that it interferes with lure presentation. In short a line that gives you the best qualities of nylon and fluoro and none of the negatives. That's a tall order but there is a line that meets these requirements and anyone who has been a member of this site for very long already knows what it is, the only line that is currently marketed as a hybrid line, Yo-Zuri Hybrid. There may be others on the market, I truly do not know. Most lines are marketed as a copoly, and there is no real definition to that, is it a line that has a core of mono and a fluoro coating? Honestly it is useless as a improvement to either type of line. Actually most lines are a copolymer, what I mean by that is the lines are a mixture of two different types of nylon;marketed as a copoly or a mixture of different fluorocarbons. This is how they make lines that have more abrasion resistance or a line that is softer, etc. So what you are looking for is a hybrid line, where the fluoro and the nylon are mixed on a molecular level to give you the best properties of each without sacrificing performance. Of course you could always go with a braided mainline with different leaders and do just fine. But the problem there is where the lines join, because there isn't a leader knot that retains 50% of the original line's strength. Your 30lb braid mainline tied to a 20lb fluoro leader will break at 10lbs, just the nature of the beast. So good luck in choosing the line for you. EDIT: After reading Tim Kelly's post and being reminded of the FG knot, I need to redact my original post to read. When using a braid mainline and fluoro leader consider tying the FG knot. This knot which really isn't a traditional knot provides the angler with the best knot available. It is ultra thin and retains at least 98%of the original line's strength. Tutorial on the knot here https://youtu.be/pjzUb5QRKuk Sources: http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbontest.html http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html http://www.bigindianabass.com/big_indiana_bass/the-truth-about-fluorocarbon.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoropolymer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinylidene_fluoride

This is a great post, I think more ppl should take a boater safety course. I used to teach them when I was on active duty. Boater safety is no joke, those buying a performance bass boat who have never operated one is an accident waiting to happen. When your operating at the edges of your boat's specifications and at the limit of your ability be extremely careful. When it goes wrong it goes wrong fast and the consequences can be devastating. The crash happens about a minute into the video https://youtu.be/1UEETjztLqIUEETjztLqI https://youtu.be/atCxDQozBSI After watching these clips do u know how the guy in the last video pulled off the 360 and the other crashed going over a wake?

That just sucks

Awesome catches Clayton! I tried fly fishing but the end of my line kept tying in knots when I tried to cast. Just ended in aggravation.

Will also add that if you're a competitive person stay away from auction sites and auctions in general. I'll never forget my wife's first auction, she set a price and things were going fine, then she was outbid. Oh man you would have thought the person had insulted her mother! She ranted, cussed and bid like a person possessed. She won the auction but could have purchased two comforter sets for what sure paid!

It's a fluro myth, it's not invisible under water. http://www.seaguar.com/applications/myths.html Yes u did, I'll post mine tomorrow, start a new one

I wish I knew this one was coming out before I bought my boat. Regardless of other brands literature or advertising, tracker is the only true mod v hull manufactured. There is simply no comparison when it comes to handling, dry ride and ability to handle rough water. Yes Tracker Marine bought Ranger, Stratos and Triton last year.

I'm sick of all the fluorocarbon myths being passed as facts. I really need to post all the research I've done, the truths about it's properties characteristics etc, it's not the magical line that it's represented as.

No but if u go with yo-zuri hybrid (12 bucks 600yds), the difference would be negligible. But braid with a yz leader would be better IMO.

Yes but not after you've opened them, the op indicated that he has opened and installed his transducer.

I have a 20 foot boat with a 225hp Merc Opti, this boat burns less fuel-oil than my first bass boat which was an 89 Hydro Sport fish and ski, 17 foot with a 140 Johnson. I was real worried about operating cost when I purchased the boat. I've been pleasantly surprised, top speed near.70, I cruise at 4200rpm right at 50mph, at that rpm I'm burning about 4 gallons an hour. The old boat burned about 12 gph at 50mph. Additionally I wouldn't want to go below 200hp on my new boat it weighs close to 2000 pounds loaded ready to fish. When it comes time to re-power I'll probably go with a 250-275 hp, and am willing to bet that it will be even more fuel efficient. Boats are not cars, the water creates.serious drag that has to be overpowered to plane a boat and run efficiently. With a car a smaller engine typically means better fuel economy, not so with water craft, you want as big of a motor as your boat can take. It will be more efficient and burn less fuel.

This may have been posted already but is something my Dad used to tell me and my brothers. "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool; than it is to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

Congrats MDBowHunter!!!

You have some seriously nice ink, don't worry about it. I for one don't give it a second thought when ppl complain about mine. I was teaching a class at church and this topic came up, some people had some really negative comments, I just rolled my sleeve up, that stopped it. People with tats are everywhere from every segment of society, they're no longer just for bikers, gangs and convicts. I got my first one right at 30 years ago, before it was so popular, I was 16. I was the only person in my high school with a tat, the guy who did it was a hard core biker, who BTW are some of the nicest ppl you'll ever meet. He actually made me take him to see my mom, he wanted her permission first. He wasn't a licensed professional, but did decent work.

My boat has a 36 volt tm, the batteries aren't even in the same compartment, rather they all run to a junction box located in the aft compartment where the battery chargers, cranking battery etc are located. It is here where the batteries go from stand alone to series, then two wires from junction box to the trolling motor. Each battery has four wires, 2 go to the junction and 2 go to the charger. Your boat may have a similar set up, if so just trace the wires back to their source. Good luck

Thanks for the heads up, I was fortunate enough to buy a boat this year, worked one into the deal. Just got an 899 as well. I really like the Si, let's me see what's beyond my boat, really neat technology. As far as auction sites go I don't bother bidding until there is 10 seconds or so left. After being sniped a few times I stated seeing the benefit, pick your max bid and place it, sometimes I win sometimes I don't. Auctions with allot of idiots bidding I don't bother with. FWIW, I've never been successful on electronics, seems like that category is full of idiots.

At the end of the season last year, I'm sitting at the ramp, just loaded up and secured the boat for the trip home. This guy rolls up dumps his boat in the water and proceeds to park. All the while a strong east wind is blowing his boat out in the lake! He leisurely strolls down to the dock, only to find his boat about a hundred yards out. I don't know what he was thinking, I mean he got out of his truck, put the boat plug in and unhooked the winch. Then backs in, slams the brakes and away the boat went. No line tied to the boat no attempt to tie it off nothing. He looked at me and says "i can't believe I just did that." Calm as could be, he then asks off I'll re-launch my boat and take him out to his. Sure, I'll help him out, so I get ready to launch, and back in the water. By this time his boat ran (well I guess floated) aground and he is jumping people's fences and running thru their backyards yelling "i got it". I drive away shaking my head

I agree, the only place that carries them locally is going out of business I'll have to find them online now.

In your example which Helix model? There are at least four, top of the line Helix has side imaging, down imaging, 2d sonar, gps and Navionics maps. That one is 499, and they're out of stock just about everywhere. Law of supply and demand, ppl will pay more to make sure they have one

You should be proud, that's awesome, congrats to her and props to you.

Tell'em brother, my big fish last year came on a 8" zoom dead ringer burned on the surface. Sometimes ya gotta think outside the box. BTW about any rage tail bait (the exception being the cut tail) has a nice top water action. My favorite is the shad that thing makes allot of noise, followed closely by the lobster.

OK, by now every one knows (if you have kids) that Jelly Belly makes the famed Bertie Botts jelly beans mentioned in the Harry Potter books. What you may not know is that there is a game where you spin dial and eat the color jelly bean represented. Well my youngest son was just dying to play his new game last night. So being the nice Dad that I am we sit down to play. "Whoever wimps out first looses" was the challenge from my 10 year old. No problem I say, because I'm thinking there is no way that they actually make some of these flavors. My first spin, brown: now brown is usually chocolate, not in this box dog food! It tasted like dog food smells is the best I can describe. Next spin green with dark green spots, pear: no booger, just salty! He is laughing so hard he is crying. Next spin yellow with red dots, peach: finally no surprises. He is getting lucky on his spins brown chocolate, green pear, black toasted marshmallow. Next spin, I get brown again, this time chocolate. The next spin was supposed to be peach, no it was barf! BTW he doesn't let me know what the flavors could be, you're supposed to guess. That's it I'm done, I'm a wimp but who cares. I tell him to spin again, so he can truly say he beat me. Black but this he crushes the bean and the smell hits, skunk spray definitely not marshmallow; "don't eat that!" I say. What warped individual is coming up with this stuff? I would never want the taste testing job at jelly belly. It took hours for the barf flavoring to leave.

My favorite is a Bitsy Bug jig, yes I'll use a jig for the weight on a drop shot when I'm using a longer lead from the weight to the bait. It works great sometimes I get them on the finesse bait (usually a robo worm) sometimes on the jig. Sitting here thinking about it, a shaky head might be a better choice, I keep forgetting about that technique. Why not double your chances?