deep

Yes. All the time. Secret colors (no, that's not a joke). You should read Murphy's book. Can't argue with results.

Goose, either you're very lucky, or just very good. I suspect it's the latter. Thanks for the inspiration.

The one I'm selling. You interested in buying it? Something with a fast action. Length depends on your preferences, power on the weight of the sinker and the cover etc.

Since we've been talking a bunch about hard structure (distinguishable features that are part of the bottom) and breaklines lately, what do y'all think about things like color breaks (creek bringing in muddy water), light breaks (shadow lines), oxygen breaks (thermoclines)? These are not part of the bottom usually, however, they are still breaklines- that might change from day to day, or even from hour to hour.

If I could buy the sort of jigs I'd want to fish, I'd have bought them. Trouble is either the head is of the wrong shape, or the hook is too thick, or the shank is too short, whatever. And then of course, no one wants to tie rubber or bucktails. I'd love to pay someone to tie me jigs, it takes me an insane amount of time to get my jig look just the way I want it- I have fat fingers. If you're happy with store bought jigs, do not think about making your own. You might save nickels and dimes, but it'd cost you time. Not worth it in my book.

I'm sure he would have put it more eloquently than I did. I believe he just retired last month and is out fishing, unlike the rest of us. Prime pre-spawn time in SoCal.

I didn't tell you to fish on the bottom in 100 FOW. I said that the deepest water in the area is the important deal when looking at shallower structures. Personally, I don't fish much deeper than 30FOW (on the bottom) for the same reasons- and also because I've had only little success when I tried it. Also, Tom says you might want to divide up your reservoir into thirds, and then look at an individual section, depending on the season. I'd pick one region of the lake, the number of regions depending on how big your lake is, locate the deepest channels/ depressions, identify the structures associated with them, and fish the latter ones.

Because Tom (WRB) told me to? I think that's a good answer. The practical reason is I frequently see laydowns, even big ones, being displaced by flood water. The laydown in the pic below is over 30 ft long (you can only see part of it in the photo). We got a little rain, water level rose, and it's not there any more. I can't find it. Rocks, of any significant size, seem to hold their places all right. I do agree when I'm fishing, I tend to think of isolated individual boulders like a clump of brush. When you string a bunch of rocks together of course, it becomes a significant structure, and must be treated similar to any other hard breakline. Regarding the mid-layer fish, Tom posted this elsewhere. I hope you find this interesting. ***** Every deep structured clear water bass lake has a population of suspended bass in the main lake basin. This group of bass are rarely caught and are usually the biggest bass in the lake. These big bass can be caught, especially during pre spawn when they stage in about 20' of water off main lake points the are near spawning migration areas. These bass can be anywhere from 20' from structure or 100' away suspended in about 20' of water. So if you approach a point and stop out about 120' away, a safe distance so you don't disturb these bass by parking on top of them. To get their attention a surface swimbait or a wake bait like a 10" Triple Trout or big wooden Lunker Plunker can be cast even with the point end about 60' out in front. Let the lure land and sit there for about 2 minutes, this give the bass enough time to investigate what made the disturbance. Now twitch the lure and let rest again a few seconds. If nothing happens, start a erractic retrieve and watch for any followers and be prepared for a strike. make several cast around the point before moving on to the next major point. Tom *****

OP, have you studied Bill Murphy's book? SoCal reservoirs are hundreds of feet deep (near the dam at least). Yet, he places the utmost importance on deep water. Not just deep water, but the deepest in the area. Breaklines are structures. As noted above, the path from the deepest water to the feeding grounds (may or may not be the "shallows", and the two might be very close) is important. Buck Perry defines "breaks" as items on or in the bottom such as rocks, stumps, bushes, etc. I don't like clumping these items together. Rock is "structure"; stumps and bushes are cover. I like to look at a reservoir map after removing these. Sure, I have caught fish from "breaks", big ones too. But these were on or near the really important structures (including breaklines).

Re: foodshelf We have to talk about forage if we want to talk about feeding depths (shallows). In any lake, you have all different kinds of (fishy) forage. Shore minnows, small fish relating to supershallow water(usually). You have slightly larger demersal baitfish (small bass, bluegills), which also seem to relate to cover most of the time, in what I'd consider shallow water. They are eating the tiny minnows, but they are also trying to not get eaten by the bigger bass. Then there's shad- of which I have little firsthand experience. But they migrate to the shallows for the night? Finally, and here's my favorite forage, the trouts. Water temp and light seem to affect them, a lot. I guess my point is different forage species hang out in different places during different times of the day.

Neat!

Paul, yes, and no; respectively. It's not really about me though. I have found out- mostly through trial and error, like I said- what works. Maybe even a little about the why's.

Bluegills, stocker trouts, crawfish. I guess baby bass and crappies as well. Stockers seem to have this habit of swimming only a few feet down in the water column. That (probably) is one of the reasons I can catch bigger fish* shallow over deeper structure (near breaks). * NLMB largemouth

Yes Sir, that's how I've been catching them. At least that's the general idea. Find the sanctuaries, and then the lead-ins (breaklines?) to the best shallows. One edge of the point is better than the other. I don't know why. Bill Murphy calls them "subliminal" areas. EDIT: Yes, the big rocks have yielded a few fish too. I do best off the sides, along the edges/ contours lines.

my mistake, sorry for the croppings. Post 47: The roadbed you can see. The main creek is towards you, not visible in the photo. The 1-D dropoff starts near the left edge of the photo. You're looking towards north in this photo. Post 54: You're looking south. Main creek is ahead of you, and the roadbed on the other side of it. Post 56: In the photo of this 1-D dropoff, you looking north-east(ish). Pocket is at the right edge. Line of boulders is to the left, and not visible. In the sketch, you're looking south. Hope that clears things a little? Let me know,

Lol ole Bill.

If you could tell me what I could elaborate on, maybe I can try and complete the picture! Are you familiar with the term "cut"? What I call a "pocket" can be thought of as a tiny cove without a real feeder creek channel. Most useful structures break in two or three directions. The dropoff to the right of the pocket runs straight without any significant twists or turns. I'd post a topo map, if I had one. Unfortunately I do not. It took me a lot of time pouring over old aerial photos, some from before impoundment, walking the banks during low water levels, and dragging the bottom to get to the understanding I now have of the fishery. And it's far from complete. Doesn't anyone think it's strange there's no cove on either side of the point? It's the truth. The point isn't apparent at all at full pool, but there's a depression on either side.

But wait, there's even more. A bottom composition change to the left of the line of boulders. The point itself, and two depressions on either side, pull double duty as spawning grounds. What this pattern deal? I'm happy to catch just one fish every week if it's of the right size. Now if y'all could help me catch one every trip, I'll start calling myself the Mike Long of the east coast. Jokes apart, tell us more about "patterning". I thought part of it was focusing on similar structures that hold fish on a given day, and eliminating others.

A few on slip shot rigs, a few on jigs, a bunch on 8" hudds, a bunch more on jerkbaits and topwaters (small and big). I have caught them on bottom-bumping baits in 30 FOW, just not here.

Isolated boulders and a few tree stumps, that's it. I did mention "a couple" other structures. Now that I think of it, there are at least three. The main creek channel is the obvious one. There's a steep "pocket" cut into the shoreline- probably when the lake was impounded. Drops sharply into the roadbed. The third is a line of staggered boulders leading to the main creek after the road crossed the said bridge. Very close to the intersection of the road and the main creek channel. There's an (what I call) one-dimenstional dropoff between the pocket and the line of boulders. Looks like this. Here's a rough sketch of the area. The point is the same one I alluded to earlier, and also posted a low water pic of.

This is what I meant about the lack of cover. What you see below is the tip of a very productive point close to the main creek channel. Lake was about 17 feet low when the pic was taken, the main creek channel is about 30-40 yards further out into the water. There are a couple of scrawny tree stumps near the tip, and that's it as far as cover is concerned.

That's what I found out after a LOT of trials and mostly errors.

But that sweet spot is under 60 FOW! I'm catching shallow fish from it though.

Don't have too much cover unfortunately, unless you include rockpiles. But rock is structure lol. Anyway, no worries. I'm just rambling along; maybe someone can pick up a clue or two. I know I have picked up a bunch already. So here's (part of) the roadbed I was talking about. Had to crop the pic a little. It goes on straight for a while (to the left of your screen) until it hits the main creek. The trees I assume were chopped down before flooding- because I can't feel them. How would you fish this section? Everything you see have been under water for the last ~70 years.

I just happen to like that size. I fish the 5" DT grub the most, followed by pork. The others are reserved as last resort(s).