RoLo

Interesting question, you got me to thinking. I'll have go with the short answer, otherwise we'd be here all day. The majority of holding sites I've pinpointed over the past 35 years are still hotspots today. The most common loss of holding sites is due to a changing pool level in an impoundment. In reservoirs though, I normally have different sets of waypoints for different pool levels. A few hotspots have been downgraded by herbicide programs and shore development (human intervention). Some saltwater sites have changed, especially near inlets where the tidal flow rearranged the depth contour of a sand bottom. In all cases though, the depth sounder in conjuction with the GPS (or Loran) will reveal the erroneous bottom depth or missing weed signal before you even wet a line. So, for the most part, the old hotspots tend to hold up a lifetime.

BassMasters Top-5 Smallmouth Rivers 1. New River, VA 2. Susquehanna River, PA 3. St Lawrence River, NY 4. Snake River, ID 5. Columbia River, WA I agree with Roadwarrrior, 'where' is the Tennessee River??? (that's crazy). In my view, America's top world-class waters for smallmouth bass are the Tennessee and Columbia rivers. To be honest, based on the secular view of river age, I'd personally give the nod to the Columbia River, WA, followed very closely by the Tennessee River. I'd place the St Lawrence R. in third place (as they did). The St Lawrence River (1,000 Islands) is in the "Bass Box" that I alluded to in an earlier post. Not to be taken lightly, waters in that region including Lake Champlain, Black Lake, Lake Erie, etc are top-rung for both large AND smallmouth bass. Oddly, these waters get very little press, which is a great thing (then shut-up Roger). I've also gone on record stating that in my experience, 3-pound largemouth bass are about as common in Canada as they are in Florida (btw: I'm a resident of central Florida). The reason is simple, the bass where I live enjoy a fantastic growth rate, but the bass living in the northern Bass Box gain their weight through age, where bass live up to twice as long as they do in the deep south (i.e. thermal burnout).

Thank God for prime northern goose down

I'm almost positive that these are the most recent BassMaster ratings. I copied them about 6 months ago from the web, you may still be able to Google them. I agree with you, where is Lake Fork?? It may be the virus, because these ratings are a combination of size and numbers (overall quality). Actually, these are really largemouth lists and the Tennessee River is most highly noted for its smallmouth bass. Guntersville is the Tennessee River representative for bigmouth, which is the eastern-most impoundment on the Tennessee River RWs paydirt <= Pickwick <= Wilson <= Wheeler <= Guntersville (the river flows west, then north)

Pursuant to BassMaster Magazine TOP 10 Lakes 1. Lake Tohopekaliga, FL 2. Lake Guntersville, AL 3. Santee Cooper, SC 4. San Joaquin Delta, CA 5. Lake Minnetonka, MN 6. Potomac River, MD 7. Lake St Clair, MI 8. Lake Champlain, VT 9. Sam Rayburn, TX 10. Clear Lake, CA TOP 5 Rivers 1. Potomac River, MD 2. Mississippi River, IL (Vicinity of Savanna, Illinois) 3. St Johns River, FL (Salt Run Spring to Dunns Crk esp. Seven Sisters Island - Dunns Ck) 4. Red River, LA (South of Shreveport to Miss R. Stocked with Florida-strain bass) 5. James River, VA (South of Richmond, VA)

Ah hah, and therein lies the beauty, because the magic is between the angler's ears The Chart Tells All,, no different that the price chart of a stock. The only beneficiaries however are those who are able to decipher its wealth of knowledge. This is not something you're going to read in a book (wouldn't that be special). My wife and I planned a vacation to Sacandago Reservoir, New York. As always I charted my trial sites on the hydrographic map of Sacandaga Reservoir. When I arrived at the lake I stopped in a sport shop on the lake. I asked the owner how the fishing was, and we began to chat. Eventually, he said to me, boy if I only had a chart I could show you some good fishing spots. I told him that I have a lake chart in the car. I got my chart and spread it across his counter. He looked at that chart for a long time, obviously studying my scrawlings. Finally, he said to me, "who put this mark here", I said, oh that's nothing, I did that at home. He said, "Oh yah it's something, that's one of the spots I was going to show you. We went through that same ritual with about 3 other spots that I had marked at home (lake unseen). Finally, he pointed at one of my marked spots and said, "This spot here is my secret spot and one that I'd never tell you about". When I folded my map and left, there were no additional hotspots on my chart. My wife and I still laugh about that today, in fact, she's standing beside me as I right this.

Roadwarrior, Now you're saying "adjacent to" deep water, "next To" deep water. But that isn't the same as deep water. When you're fishing on a drop-off or even a fast taper, it is very difficult to know the exact depth of your lure. I know because I'm my own guide. If your lure is directly over the transducer then you may see it on the sonar (depth sounder),but beyond that it's very difficult to know. You might be fishing a lot shallower than you realize. If this discussion evolved around holding structure and not fish depth, I would have specified slopes with rapid depth change as the paramount structure which takes precedence even over cover!!! This is the main reason why I never fish any lake before fist obtaining the best hydrographic or topographic chart available. It's my bible. Why do you suppose bass prefer to be near a dropoff, to use deep water for escape, to hide from cold fronts, to avoid diving ospreys, to avoid boats or hot sun. Enter another can of worms: I believe that the reason bass gravitate to depth drop-offs is none of the above. I believe that bass only rarely leave the ledge to visit the basin (smallmouth bass excepted). What are your thoughts on that? You're right, this is getting to be fun 8-)

Well, there are a couple of holes in that question: 1. Tournament pros don't target 15-lb bass, because that would be a waste of valuable time. 2. Most tournaments are not held in California where Bob Crupi and 15-lbers are found. 3. Fishing with jumbo live crayfish is not legal on the tourney trail. As much as I love catching giants of the species, I can't agree with that statement. Fishing for trophies is certainly more difficult in the sense that larger fish are scarcer than smaller fish (= boring). But when we compare the skillset involved, I really can't see where fishing for record-class bass is any harder than fishing for average size bass, it's just "different". Watching a minnow tow a float around the lotus pads is not any harder than finesse fishing with soft plastics for average-size bass. There are days when the most learned angler would be happy with one runt. There are just as many days when we watch some novice angler flop a belly-sagging lunker onto the deck. Like it not, there's a lot of luck involved in the "weight" of the bass we catch. If there wasn't, we'd all be catching bass that wieghed 3 pounds plus. I don't believe the better angler can be decided by the single "heaviest" fish, nor by the "number" of fish alone. In my opinion it should be the combination of BOTH (quantity & quality). That is to say, keep a running total of the weight of every 'legal' bass successfully boated. It's immaterial what bass are kept or released, all that matters is the running total of every "legal" bass that is boated (no limits, no culling). The hotshot who thinks he's good for at least on beer-barrel bass, will have his chance, but if he doesn't get lucky, then he'll have to win the hard way. I forget his name, but the angler who holds the record for "lowest winning stringer weight" was recently dubbed a "dubious honor". To my mind that's the highest honor and one that separates the men from the boys. Anyway, if there's a fairer way than total weight, I would like to hear about it.

Bar none, the greatest fishing partner in my life, is my wife. ("RoLo" equals Roger & Lois)

Flechero, Based on the weights you posted above, you have boated more trophy largemouth than the average bear. Let me ask you this, what makes you believe that the majority of big bass live in deep water? Or perhaps I should ask, have you caught many BIG bass in deep water?

Chris, I have the exact same information on record, only I rounded them to the nearest 1%: TROPHY MONTHS March: 20% April: 17% February: 13% January: 13% May: 9% June: 8% August: 5% July: 4% September: 3% October: 3% December: 3% November: 2% I also found some other stuff, but I didn't record any sources because it was for my own edification. Now that I'm on the Bass Resource forum, I'll be documenting the sources: TROPHY DEPTHS (Over 9 lbs) Less than 5-ft: 54% 5 to 10-ft: 26% 11 to 15-ft: 13% Over 15-ft: 7% TROPHY TIMES OF DAY 10am to Noon: 22% 8am to 10am: 14% 2pm to 4pm: 12% Before 8am: 11% Noon to 2pm: 11% 4pm to 6pm: 11% 6pm to 8pm: 10% 8pm or later: 9%

I had a feeling someone was going to ask me that. If the shoe were on the other foot, I'd be the first one asking that same question. Unfortunately RW, this is pretty old info. I assumed that it was common knowledge, but I'm finding otherwise. Actually there were several telemetry studies that established similar results, but the most notable was conducted by "In Fisherman" (who else). I really wish I could tell you exactly what issue it was in, but I'm afraid I can't, nor do I recall the title of the article. However, since this article does exist, there may be a way of ultimately tracking it down. Pictured in this particular article were several lake charts where the telemetry tracks were color-coded. The movement of each color-coded track was described in the chart legend. IMO, those charts soundly trounced Buck Perry's theory about Daily Migration of bass from sanctuary to food shelf. He was the reason I wasted valuable time fishing in deep water (his theories were published in Fishing Facts magazine). I hasten to add, that this shallow-water discussion does not apply to smallmouth bass, which I know that you of all people, fully understand (I copied-and-pasted your synopsis of smallmouth structure, it was beautiful). For what it's worth. I tend to believe that at any given moment, largemouth bass inhabit all depth levels normally associated with largemouth bass. Which is not the same as saying they can be "caught" at all depth levels (enter the illusion). Some bass inherently, genetically or for whatever reason, tend to gravitate to deep water, while others to shallow water. All that I'm saying, is that bass that spend most of their time in deep water are unimpressive, and that shallower water is the home of the doublewides. This might also explain why true lunkers are so rare, because their only refuge is heavy cover and anorexia. If we can bring Doug Hannon back into this, this is what he professes. Doug maintains that the biggest bass live in water less than 5 feet deep. He believes that the largest bass are caught in summer, not during the pre-spawn. Doug also holds that during the summer, plastic worms will outproduce live bait for both numbers and size. Fodder for the think tank.

Matt_Fly If anything Matt, 99.9% may be an understatement, which is one 12-pound bass for every thousand bass. It's the same as saying that most anglers who've boated only 1,000 bass in their lifetime have not boated a 12-pounder. It's probably safe to say, that most anglers who boated 2,000 bass in their lifetime are still waiting for their first 12-pounder. I have a gut-feeling that the percentage may be closer to 99.95%, and if fingerlings are counted, even higher. That's a new one on me and seems to defy logic, let me explain: The water near the dam is not only deeper, the water near the dam is cooler and "less fertile", two negative factors for growth rate. The water near the dam supports less plant life and less forage than water away from the dam. In Florida, the majority of waters are 'natural lakes' which have no dam and no deep water. In a typical Florida lake, bass spend their lives in shallow, warm water abounding with vegetation and forage. In the North, bass that gravitate to a shallow water environment stand a better chance of attaining Florida-like proportions, than bass that spend their time in deep water. For sure, most anglers are Bank-Beaters but for very good reason, bigmouth bass are shallow-oriented fish. Based on the notion that big bass inhabit deep water, I've wasted a whole lot of fishing time combing deep water. Since that time though, several telemetry studies have disproved the deep water theory. The studies have shown that bass Do Not make daily migrations back-and-forth from deep to shallow water. The majority of bass are homebodies that only make seasonal adjustments and daily shifts (up & down) within the same water column. The small minority of bass that do migrate horizontally, do so parallel to the shoreline without any appreciable depth change. Like most everyone else, I've taken bass from both deep and shallow water, but my biggest "largemouth" bass come from shallow water. In my view, small school bass are better acclimated to deepwater structures, not large bass. Deep water in my opinion, provides a hostile environment for a fat lazy overweight bass. The prolific vegetation and strong forage base found in "shallow water cover" is a far more appropriate habitat, than chasing migratory shad on an offshore hump (a schoolie situation). Furthermore, the average water temperature of deep water is lower than the average for shallow water, translating to a slower average growth rate. On The Other Hand, if I could get every fishermen to move his game plan to deep water, then I can have the shallow-water hawgs all to myself.........Nah, that ain't gonna happen

A gentleman and scholar Way to go buddy

LBH, If your chart has a compass rose, or at least shows Magnetic North, you can do some business. Using prominant land points and structures, you can triangulate your Lines Of Position (LOP) at home. Then, when you can get on the water you can get the coordinates with your GPS, using bearing binoculars. For example, you could mark the intersection of a creek channel and a submerged roadbed on your map. If the bridge is still intact, you'll have a personal "culvert sitation" 8-)

Gorgeous!! It draws me right in!

I'm surprised to see so many fellows who love their night fishing, I used to be one of them. I'm doing less-and-less night fishing lately, mostly because I miss seeing the environment. I take far more pictures of wildlife and scenery than I take of people and fish. One thing I do like about night fishing is hearing them jump in the dark. Your imagination conjures this awesome jumbo that just melts away under the flashlight >

What's the rush? ;D

When I lived in the north, I probably fished about 20 different lakes and streams each year. I always targeted 'one' species per outing so some of the lakes were for largemouth, some for smallmouth, some for northern pike and some for chain pickerel. Naturally, I targeted the pre-spawn and fall peaks seasons, which were very different on different lakes. Most of the waters were within an hour of my home, but some were about two hours (one-way). On faraway lakes I usually forfeited the dawn bite, and rehashed the day on the long ride home.

So...You go bass fishing 3 to 5 days a week? But that's ONLY about '200' days a year! You DO have a problem ;D

"JT Bagwell" BULLSEYE! Strange but true, controversial figures like Ike actually colorize the sport and ultimately raise the purse. People will watch a fishing show just to see Ike, who have never watched a fishing show before. It reminds me of what Mohammad Ali (Cassius Clay) did for the sport of boxing, and what Bobby Fischer did for the game of Chess.

As usual, members of the forum provided a lot of interesting and thought-provoking responses. Reading your responses actually reinforced what I already believed. Since there is no definitive answer though, I can only add to the speculation. Let me quote a couple of noted authorities: I'm sure many of you recall the late Buck Perry, the man dubbed the "Father of Structure Fishing". Some of Buck's theories were eventually proven false, but overall his premises had sound footing. Buck coined the controversial phrase, "No Bass Ever Had An Original Thought In Its Life". I agree with Buck, I too believe that fish are creatures of instinct without the power to reason. In addition, we can't ignore the fact that fish are cold-blooded animals, a form of life that is not normally associated with intellect. Nevertheless, highly developed instincts' are nothing to pass off lightly. In certain situations, our instincts can be more effective than our intelligence. For instance, a con artist may be far shrewder than his prey, but if the victim's instincts tell him to bypass the deal, there will be no sale. Another notable bass researcher is Doug Hannon. Though I disagree with many of Doug's notions, he has done subjective research where opinion played no part. He directly interviewed and indirectly researched as many anglers as possible who landed world-class bass (over 15 pounds). He found that almost without exception, the largest bass were taken in water shallower than 5 ft deep. This doesn't apply to the deep oligotrophic impoundments of California-grown Florida-strain bass. Nor does it apply to smallmouth bass, which relate to deeper water then bigmouth bass and prefer a higher oxygen content (current). There's no question that big bass living in shallow water are highly vulnerable to being caught. But that may help to explain why 99.9% of bass never exceed 12 lbs in weight, so they are commensurately rare. Of course we can better our odds by targeting private waters, or by targeting public waters with no approach road (e.g. some lakes in the Ocala Nat'l Forest). We could also focus on public waters with inaccessible areas (e.g. early days at Rodman Reservoir) or accessible areas with impervious cover such as floating rafts of hyacinths (e.g. the Withlacoohee River before the Dunnelon Motel became the Angler's Resort). Not surprisingly, large bass are most vulnerable to natural bait. Berkley tank tests have shown that bass become visually conditioned to certain lures. It was discovered that bass become conditioned most quickly to crank plugs, which they tend to reject after repeated exposure. In contrast, bass showed practically no defense against plastic worms, which they continued to hit regardless of repeated exposure. In all cases however, the memory of bass wasn't much better than Trilene XL, so the conditioning was only short-lived. This Speaks Volumes! The ability of an animal to benefit from past experience is limited by that animals memory span. So...is a 9-lb bass smarter than a 3-lb bass? I don't think so. I've always suspected that trophy bass are no smarter than your average adult, just a whole lot rarer. Fishing for run-of-the-mill bass is sometimes very different than fishing for trophy bass. I don't believe this has anything to do with wisdom, though I admit that it's more fun to think of it that way. More realistically, the difference is most likely due to differences in lifestyle. One thing we know for sure, record-class bass are rare and world-class bass are as scarce as hen's teeth. I can certainly understand how their Scarcity can create the illusion of Intelligence.

Is a 9-lb bass any smarter than a 3-lb bass? Are bass capable of original thoughts...can they reason? Are trophy bass the result of a genetic tendency to live in inaccessible cover? Could they be the offspring of parents that have been conditioned to artificial lures? What do you think?

That is definitely a moot question. I'd say that the Stringer Weight is probably the most telling gage, because it incorporates both Quantity and Quality.

My dad introduced me to fishing, he also got me started hunting at age 10. We fished from a bank for catfish and carp and used Y-shaped branches for rod holders. Then my dad went all out and bought a used 10-ft rowboat. The combined weight of my father, my brother and myself practically swamped that little soaky toy. My dad died very young, so I was never able to repay him by taking him bass fishing.